Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

shootermacg · 18-10-2018 08:22AM

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

Cronin had an arm chair ride in his first away game, then looked off the pace in his second away game. Williams was a big step up in performance when he came on.

I think someone on here said he gets a lot of stick when we lose, but that could as easily be down to the pack getting out muscled.

I'd keep Williams on for another two years, he's been at Munster all his career and is actually still improving. That double tackle should be enough to win another contract.

I think Munster have needed more experience in the team in the past, a team full of young players will win you nothing. Matthewson proves the point for me, experience and attitude count for a lot.

awec · 18-10-2018 08:23AM

Williams is fine for the Pro14 canon fodder games.

Sabre0001 · 18-10-2018 08:49AM

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

McCarthy is a bit of a strange signing when we are developing 9s of our own. Williams isn't going to be around forever and Matthewson was a short term deal, but we have Cronin and Stafford coming up through the ranks. It's not like McCarthy is going to add oddles of experience; he's going to be learning his trade (IRFU would of course be happy for him to learn alongside Murray - though Carbery should tell him it doesn't always work out like that

) .

bennyl10 · 18-10-2018 08:56AM

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

yerrahbah wrote: »

I guess McCarthy prefers being 2nd choice for Munster rather than 3rd choice for Leinster.

If true then I'd imagine next season three of Williams, Hart, Cronin or Matthewson will be gone.

I know it's the way contracts work but it always seem strange that this season has barely started and we are already looking at next season.

Hart and Matthewsonw ill be gone anyway,
then murray, williams, mccarthy and cronin..
cronin may drop to A's then, with murray in irish camp

Buer · 18-10-2018 09:01AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Larbre34 wrote: »

There is such a drop off in age and experience below McCarthy at Leinster that, ironically, if he went it could leave Leinster threadbare during the world cup window and beyond while he ends up occupying the very same place in the pecking order at Munster behind Murray and any of Williams, Cronin or Hart.

The drop off isn't below McCarthy. The drop off is at him. It's the right move for him and Leinster. He's 24 this season and has started 4 matches for Leinster ever. He's clearly not viewed as someone who is going to be threatening a starting spot at any point and, in Hugh O'Sullivan, Leinster have a fairly well rated young scrum half who has already made his senior debut at 20.

slingerz · 18-10-2018 09:16AM

Munster will have murray, mccarthy, cronin and stafford for SH next season i would imagine

phog · 18-10-2018 09:53AM

Mc Love wrote: »

Thats Williams and Hart gone for sure? Will they still keep Matthewson?

If we're getting McCarthy then we should not be allowed keep Matthewson beyond this season.
The future scrumhalves for Munster look like Murray, Williams, McCarthy and Stafford and maybe keep Cronin in the squad too

Eod100 · 18-10-2018 10:03AM

Think McCarthy's move should be seen in context of Jamison Gibson Park's future Irish qualification as article points out. Likely Matthewson will be gone by end of year.

I think Williams and Cronin will be kept.

Shefwedfan · 18-10-2018 10:04AM

Not much youth development going on around Munster these days?

The players in the academy really looking at this should head off to another club...First an injury to one player and instead of thrusting the squad they sign in foreign players

Second they go to Leinster to sign a player instead of trying to develop someone....

Munster academy players...get on the phone to Connacht/Ulster and even Leinster if you want to progress

troyzer · 18-10-2018 10:08AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not much youth development going on around Munster these days?

The players in the academy really looking at this should head off to another club...First an injury to one player and instead of thrusting the squad they sign in foreign players

Second they go to Leinster to sign a player instead of trying to develop someone....

Munster academy players...get on the phone to Connacht/Ulster and even Leinster if you want to progress

Eod100 · 18-10-2018 10:37AM

Leinster confirm McCarthy move. That was quick

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1052870775886176256

Eod100 · 18-10-2018 10:39AM

Also:

Extensions for Chris Cloete, James Cronin, Neil Cronin, Chris Farrell and Tommy O'Donnell

Promotion for the Academy's Gavin Coombes and Shane Daly

Nick McCarthy to join the province

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1052870650929524737

Cookiemunster · 18-10-2018 10:42AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

shootermacg wrote: »

Cronin had an arm chair ride in his first away game, then looked off the pace in his second away game. Williams was a big step up in performance when he came on.

Glasgow was the first away game of the season and he went off injured after 20 mins. Williams played in Cardiff and was rubbish. Williams played in Exeter and was good. Using 20 minutes of rugby (or even two games) to judge how good/bad a player is is ridiculous.

shootermacg wrote: »

I think someone on here said he gets a lot of stick when we lose, but that could as easily be down to the pack getting out muscled.

He gets a lot of stick, because after 10 years of being a professional scrum half, he still can't pass the ball.

shootermacg wrote: »

I'd keep Williams on for another two years, he's been at Munster all his career and is actually still improving. That double tackle should be enough to win another contract.

He's 32 and he's hit his limit. That's reserve Pro14 scrum half. I'd have no issues with him getting another contract as long as we also have someone better than Hart fighting with him for second choice.

shootermacg wrote: »

I think Munster have needed more experience in the team in the past, a team full of young players will win you nothing. Matthewson proves the point for me, experience and attitude count for a lot.

Contradicting yourself there I think. If Mathewson provides experience we didn't already have (which I disagree with seeing as we have the likes of Earls, Holland, POM etc), how does Williams suddenly provide that if he hasn't been able to do so before?

thomond2006 · 18-10-2018 10:46AM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Eod100 wrote: »

Also:

Extensions for Chris Cloete, James Cronin, Neil Cronin, Chris Farrell and Tommy O'Donnell

Promotion for the Academy's Gavin Coombes and Shane Daly

Nick McCarthy to join the province

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1052870650929524737

Time to update my list!
Very interesting that Cloete is extended before the last year of his current deal, that's rare.

stock> · 18-10-2018 10:48AM

No wonder the Munster academy doesn't recruit much these days, cheaper and simpler to get trained players from leinster, wont be long before we start getting used equipment and kit from them.......................................

slingerz · 18-10-2018 10:50AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not much youth development going on around Munster these days?

The players in the academy really looking at this should head off to another club...First an injury to one player and instead of thrusting the squad they sign in foreign players

Second they go to Leinster to sign a player instead of trying to develop someone....

Munster academy players...get on the phone to Connacht/Ulster and even Leinster if you want to progress

whos the injured player they replaced with a foreign signing?

Buer · 18-10-2018 10:50AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

I'd imagine that's TOD's last Munster contract.

Interesting to see Neil Cronin extended at this point too. I reckon the writing is on the wall for James Hart.

Sean O'Connor (the other final year academy player) is not mentioned. Assume he's not being retained. I can see Munster signing another NIQ lock either this season or next with Kleyn becoming IQ. The only lock in their academy currently is in his first year and Holland is starting to slow down.

thomond2006 · 18-10-2018 10:50AM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Kevin O'Byrne 2020
Rhys Marshall 2019
Niall Scannell 2019
Mike Sherry 2019

Diarmuid Barron Year 1
Eoghan Clarke Year 1

James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2020
Liam O'Connor 2020
Jeremy Loughman 2019
Cronan Gleeson January 2019

James French Year 1

Stephen Archer 2020
John Ryan 2019
Brian Scott 2020
Ciaran Parker 2019

Keynan Knox Year 2

Tadhg Beirne 2020
Billy Holland 2020
Jean Kleyn 2022
Darren O'Shea 2020
Fineen Wycherley 2019

Thomas Ahern Year 1
Sean O'Connor Year 3

Arno Botha 2019
Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Dave O'Callaghan 2019
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2019
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Conor Oliver 2020
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 1
Jack O'Sullivan Year 2

Neil Cronin 2021
Nick McCarthy 2021
James Hart 2019
Alby Mathewson January 2019
Conor Murray 2022
Duncan Williams 2019

Craig Casey Year 2
Jack Stafford Year 2

Tyler Bleyendaal 2019
Joey Carbery 2020
JJ Hanrahan 2019
Bill Johnston 2020
Ian Keatley 2019

Ben Healy Year 1
Alan Tynan Year 2

Sam Arnold 2020
Shane Daly 2021
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2020
Rory Scannell 2019
Jaco Taute 2019

Sean French Year 1
Alex McHenry Year 2
Matt More Year 2

Andrew Conway 2020
Keith Earls 2019
Stephen Fitzgerald 2019
Mike Haley 2021
Ronan O'Mahony 2019
Calvin Nash 2019
Darren Sweetnam 2019
Alex Wootton 2019

Liam Coombes Year 2
James McCarthy Year 2
Jonathan Wren Year 1

2019/20
IN: Nick McCarthy (SH, Leinster)

Eod100 · 18-10-2018 10:52AM

Buer wrote: »

Interesting to see Neil Cronin extended at this point too. I reckon the writing is on the wall for James Hart.

Doesn't look good for him alright

yerrahbah · 18-10-2018 10:53AM

Neil Cronin must have made some impression to get an extension already.

thomond2006 · 18-10-2018 10:54AM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Buer wrote: »

I'd imagine that's TOD's last Munster contract.

Interesting to see Neil Cronin extended at this point too. I reckon the writing is on the wall for James Hart.

Sean O'Connor (the other final year academy player) is not mentioned. Assume he's not being retained. I can see Munster signing another NIQ lock either this season or next with Kleyn becoming IQ. The only lock in their academy currently is in his first year and Holland is starting to slow down.

Hart is probably going. Williams will likely get another year to be around during the RWC.

Sean O'Connor got a run of games in the beginning of last season and looked promising. Then he got injured and hasn't gotten back in. Maybe he gets another year as he plays blindside and lock.

Jaco Taute is almost certainly leaving after today's news, there's too much depth at centre with Farrell (post injury) and the young players. It's going to be interesting where we make an NIE signing next year as there are plenty NIE slots available. I would have said a signing at nine (or an extension for Mathewson) was the most likely scenario but that's gone now.

Buer · 18-10-2018 11:07AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sean O'Connor got a run of games in the beginning of last season and looked promising. Then he got injured and hasn't gotten back in. Maybe he gets another year as he plays blindside and lock.

Possibly. He'll be 23 though which is quite old for repeating a final year in the academy for a lad who will probably have offers.

Jaco Taute is almost certainly leaving after today's news, there's too much depth at centre with Farrell (post injury) and the young players. It's going to be interesting where we make an NIE signing next year as there are plenty NIE slots available. I would have said a signing at nine (or an extension for Mathewson) was the most likely scenario but that's gone now.

Keeping Taute on would be the height of madness. Good options there who are potentially ahead of him. Those options are likely to still be available during interational windows too. Then factor in Taute's salary which is possibly bigger than any other current salary for other centres.

I can see Munster looking at a prop who can make a real impact for them as NIQ option. Ryan is generally in the Irish 23 and himself and Archer are both just gone 30. A NIQ option could be very useful there. Lock is the other spot I can see someone coming in and one who can cover the back row too with Stander/POM gone for long periods next season.

aloooof · 18-10-2018 11:10AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Buer wrote: »

I can see Munster looking at a prop who can make a real impact for them as NIQ option. Ryan is generally in the Irish 23 and himself and Archer are both just gone 30. A NIQ option could be very useful there.

Thinking back to BJ Botha. If we could get someone of his ilk we'd be doing very well indeed.

Buer · 18-10-2018 11:16AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

aloooof wrote: »

Thinking back to BJ Botha. If we could get someone of his ilk we'd be doing very well indeed.

I know the new 5 year rule is going to limit the viability of such a move but, with both tightheads turning 30 and the cupboard relatively bare behind them, I wouldn't be shocked if Munster looked at someone who could be one day available to the Irish team right around the time Ryan/Archer are calling it a day.

Plenty of options knocking around Super Rugby who are relatively young. I wouldn't be surprised if they were keeping an eye on Oliver Jager too.

Eod100 · 18-10-2018 11:22AM

Buer wrote: »

I know the new 5 year rule is going to limit the viability of such a move but, with both tightheads turning 30 and the cupboard relatively bare behind them, I wouldn't be shocked if Munster looked at someone who could be one day available to the Irish team right around the time Ryan/Archer are calling it a day.

Plenty of options knocking around Super Rugby who are relatively young. I wouldn't be surprised if they were keeping an eye on Oliver Jager too.

Sure they're only young fellas in prop terms.. :P

Mc Love · 18-10-2018 11:42AM

phog wrote: »

If we're getting McCarthy then we should not be allowed keep Matthewson beyond this season.
The future scrumhalves for Munster look like Murray, Williams, McCarthy and Stafford and maybe keep Cronin in the squad too

Future? Williams isnt the future, as has been pointed out he's 32.

Mr Tickle · 18-10-2018 11:45AM

Return of the JJ

Mc Love wrote: »

Future? Williams isnt the future, as has been pointed out he's 32.

At the very least i could see him getting a short term deal for the world cup. After that who knows.

E mac · 18-10-2018 11:55AM

Arno Bothas contract is up at the end of the season would it be a stretch to keep him longer?

CMcsporty · 18-10-2018 11:59AM

& what of TylerB?
He is prob also going at the end of season?

Mc Love · 18-10-2018 12:01PM

Mr Tickle wrote: »

At the very least i could see him getting a short term deal for the world cup. After that who knows.

Yeah its possible, we'll be down Murray at the very least. Bit surprised that Leinster agreed to let him go with Luke McGrath possibly in the WC squad, and Gibson Park due to be IQ.

Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

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