Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

Squidgy Black

Deysel powered va JJ

prawnsambo wrote: »

Feel sorry for Hart. Had high hopes for him, but it just never happened. He must have felt that he had a shot at Ireland caps by moving home, but the competition turned out to be too strong.

Would he have? He wasn't the starter in Grenoble, had minimal starts after his 2nd year for the remainder of his time there. Had 9 starts in the Top14 for Racing but it wasn't exactly a stellar season for them either.

Akrasia

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

Buer wrote: »

Can't agree. The majority of players at top sides have an excellent work ethic. That's why they're there. The difference is in their class. Decision making and skill levels under pressure is an area where Munster can clearly improve. They regularly get into scoring positions and are let down when there. If they do improve in these, I think they can beat any side in Europe and win the top prize. At the top level, you cannot compensate for blown opportunities with hard work. The other teams will work just as hard.

Exeter are very similar to Munster. They've a strong work ethic and a smattering of excellent players (Munster have more). That has won them one trophy in a league that many feel has questionable standards. They're the darlings of English rugby but that does not translate into silverware. Similar to Glasgow, they've been found wanting every season in Europe and never won more than 3 pool games. Munster are a better side than Exeter on their day and have more skilled players. They should be looking beyond them.

I think the home v away form across all the professional leagues shows how big a role attitude and workrate have in the results and performance

Munster have been guilty of phoning it in away from home on occasion and that shows in the poor away form. If we can bring it up a level at Thomond park, this shows that there is an intensity budget that is being rationed by some of the players (and probably for very justifiable reasons)

The reason why Leinster have such a strong team, is that there is so much competition for places and when you're 2nd choice with a guy knocking on your door to take your spot, you're fighting to retain your position in the depth chart in every game you play.

When players are 'nailed on starters' or they know that they're part of a squad rotation where they'll get their games even if they only play at 80% then they're not going to fight as hard when the conditions are tough away from home.

purpleisafruit

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

purpleisafruit wrote: »

I think there is a bit of an issue where once we get inside the 22 against the better teams, we become a 1 out bash-it-up-the-middle type team. The wingers might as well stand on the 10m line for the amount of ball that they will see.

Munster's back play is quite one dimensional and predictable. They didn't really trouble Exeter nor Leinster all that much and their fluency in attack is not where it should be for a title contender.

It's looking better this year but it's hard not to put that down to better handling and incision from 10 as opposed to the back line functioning with greater aplomb.

The real disappointment for me is the lack of variation off the set piece. For a team that had Murray in the line out last season, that kind of craftiness has been noticeably absent when the backs have the most time and space on the ball.

Earls must have tired arms after 80 minutes for Munster standing on the wing holding his hand up with loads of space in front of him and no ball!

razorblunt

leakyboots wrote: »

And a better backs coach. Felix isn't doing it for me.

I'd like to see what they can actually do first, they've not had a platform yet. I thought they were good against Leinster as Mathewson was getting quick ball.
There were a few instances were they were almost through but for superb Leinster defence, notably Henshaw and Ringrose.

Though even then they lost their shape after 3/4 phases, which is my concern.

prawnsambo

Stander Up and Fight

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Would he have? He wasn't the starter in Grenoble, had minimal starts after his 2nd year for the remainder of his time there. Had 9 starts in the Top14 for Racing but it wasn't exactly a stellar season for them either.

When he moved, there was Murray and Marmion and McGrath. Neither of whom were getting much meaningful game time in green at the time. At Munster, there was even less choice. Basically up against Duncan Williams. At the time, Munster supporters were pretty happy about his arrival iirc.

Former Former

John Hayes Ligind

prawnsambo wrote: »

Feel sorry for Hart. Had high hopes for him, but it just never happened. He must have felt that he had a shot at Ireland caps by moving home, but the competition turned out to be too strong.

In fairness, the competition wasn't the issue, Hart just isn't good enough. He never was probably.

prawnsambo

Stander Up and Fight

Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, the competition wasn't the issue, Hart just isn't good enough. He never was probably.

He had a bit of a golden period for Grenoble where he was excellent for them in his second season. The move to Racing looked like a promotion at the time, considering the relative positions of Grenoble and Racing 92.

leakyboots

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

McCarthy is a bizarre signing - I'd prefer to see us back our own young lads and keep Duncan on a one year contract to tide us over while they come through

errlloyd

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Darren Sweetnam; Joey Carbery, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Rhys Marshall, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Billy Holland, Arno Botha, Alby Mathewson, JJ Hanrahan, Sammy Arnold.

Squidgy Black

Deysel powered va JJ

errlloyd wrote: »

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Darren Sweetnam; Joey Carbery, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Rhys Marshall, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Billy Holland, Arno Botha, Alby Mathewson, JJ Hanrahan, Sammy Arnold.

Niall Scannell out injured or just rotation?

thomond2006

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057921385

Eod100

Wonder how long more Murray and Earls will be out? Is it a case of not rushing them back before November series?

leakyboots

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Happy with that side, plenty of impact off the bench too.

phog

errlloyd wrote: »

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Darren Sweetnam; Joey Carbery, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Rhys Marshall, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Billy Holland, Arno Botha, Alby Mathewson, JJ Hanrahan, Sammy Arnold.

Still no Earls and no Sherry but Alby making a return is good news.

Mc Love

Wouldnt mind about Sherry tbh. But Earls is a big loss.

Buer

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

I assume Sherry is injured but would he be in the mix regardless? I would have imagined he's someone who is playing for a contract at the moment.

Sabre0001

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

Sherry was off with darts when he played a few weeks ago. Europe isn't the time for getting people back up to speed (hence Taute also not being in the running too). I imagine we'll see some of both of them in the coming weeks. Earls a big loss though, naturally.

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Hope Munster raise the tempo a bit more and go right on the attack. Would love to see Gloucester get a decent thumping but it's an opportunity against good opposition to start moving the ball around a bit more. Glimpses the last two weeks, hope we get to see the real show tomorrow.

xxyyzz

Sherry is a country mile behind KOB.

leakyboots

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

He looked extremely off the pace in his last match, if he gets another opportunity during the AIs etc he really has to take it

Mmlim88

leakyboots wrote: »

And a better backs coach. Felix isn't doing it for me.

Munster top try scoring team in pro14 atm and your calling for heads? Glad your opinion doesn’t matter. We need consistency in coaching team not more changes.

Mmlim88

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Mmlim88 wrote: »

Munster top try scoring team in pro14 atm and your calling for heads? Glad your opinion doesn’t matter. We need consistency in coaching team not more changes.

Scoring tries in games where they no longer matter is not an indication of the quality of your attacking game.

I'm not directing this at Munster per se, just highlighting why tries scored with just a handful of games played indicates very little.

Munster aren't clinical in the red zone and they don't capitalise on possession. The backs do very little with good quality ball off the set piece. The backs are undoubtedly the weak link right now but there is plenty of quality there so it's not surprising questions about the backs coach are surfacing.

Mmlim88

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Scoring tries in games where they no longer matter is not an indication of the quality of your attacking game.

I'm not directing this at Munster per se, just highlighting why tries scored with just a handful of games played indicates very little.

Munster aren't clinical in the red zone and they don't capitalise on possession. The backs do very little with good quality ball off the set piece. The backs are undoubtedly the weak link right now but there is plenty of quality there so it's not surprising questions about the backs coach are surfacing.

Again surprised that scoring tries has scoring has nothing to do with attack. Baffling.

Clegg

It's pretty obvious from watching Munster over the last few seasons that they're quite blunt in attack. They've a lot of very talented backs but don't seem to know how to use them effectively.

Eod100

Clegg wrote: »

It's pretty obvious from watching Munster over the last few seasons that they're quite blunt in attack. They've a lot of very talented backs but don't seem to know how to use them effectively.

3rd most tries in Pro14 last season, 2nd season before. Could probably do with more tries in Europe but I think it's exaggerated a bit

stephen_n

Mmlim88 wrote: »

Again surprised that scoring tries has scoring has nothing to do with attack. Baffling.

Take the Ulster debacle and the Ospreys thirds, it’s a very different picture. Munster had 70% possession against Leinster and lost, that’s not the sign of an attacking team.

Mmlim88

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Scoring tries in games where they no longer matter is not an indication of the quality of your attacking game.

I'm not directing this at Munster per se, just highlighting why tries scored with just a handful of games played indicates very little.

Munster aren't clinical in the red zone and they don't capitalise on possession. The backs do very little with good quality ball off the set piece. The backs are undoubtedly the weak link right now but there is plenty of quality there so it's not surprising questions about the backs coach are surfacing.

Also, in terms of stats, going on this year they’ve scored one less try then Leinster inside opp 22. It was the same last year over the course of the season.

Mmlim88

stephen_n wrote: »

Take the Ulster debacle and the Ospreys thirds, it’s a very different picture. Munster had 70% possession against Leinster and lost, that’s not the sign of an attacking team.[/quote

Would question the theory about possession = good attack. + Leinster have played dragons and put a few tries on them too. anyway - Can’t wait for tomorrow C’mon munster

twinytwo

John Hayes Ligind

Mmlim88 wrote: »

Munster top try scoring team in pro14 atm and your calling for heads? Glad your opinion doesn’t matter. We need consistency in coaching team not more changes.

Compare the way Leinster or Glasgow attack through the backs to what munster do?

For seasons now munster for the most part just shuffle the ball from side to side, or its all one off runners.

If munster are serious about winning europe again they need to sort it out. Our pack and set piece will only get us so far... this is plain as day to see....

Vinnie222

twinytwo wrote: »

Compare the way Leinster or Glasgow attack through the backs to what munster do?

For seasons now munster for the most part just shuffle the ball from side to side, or its all one off runners.

If munster are serious about winning europe again they need to sort it out. Our pack and set piece will only get us so far... this is plain as day to see....

Exactly it has cost us in important games over the last yr or 2 .