Principal Officer in the Civil Service

Riskymove wrote: »

No I don't sorry

I know someone in the top 20 still waiting

Thanks. It seems the regional placings are like hen's teeth. No surprise really, plenty of existing AP's knocking about on the panels, including internals.

hardybuck wrote: »

It's no surprise because of the high concentration of POs in Dublin which isn't replicated elsewhere.

True, but the high demand means that there could actually be meaningful decentralization if management wanted it. There's a dependency issue I think, people like to have everyone at everything but with a little more organization and planning, things could run just as smoothly. In my Dept. anyway.

hardybuck wrote: »

For some Depts it probably would work. For mine it wouldn't for probably 75% of the POs in the business - they'll be seeing a lot of the Sec Gen and Minister.

I'd like to see more use of hubs - places on the outskirts of the M50 with decent links to the city centre if they're needed there. I'm sure many people could plug into a hub a few days a week and work just as well.

I agree - you could put hubs out as far as Athlone and have them go into Dublin (say) 2 days a week for meetings etc. It is a bit ridiculous that so many of the POs are based exclusively and full time in Dublin. You wouldn't even need to make big changes to work practices for a more hub/remote type model to work

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Not sure why you'd want to be pushing more traffic onto the M50? Just let people work from home with good online connectivity.


But I'm not sure the decentralisation works for any policy-related work. I know some Dept Housing folks from Wexford were in Dublin 2-3 days a week. That amount of travel isn't good for health or family. It's OK for processing units like social protection or some revenue units, but not for policy.

Have to say I disagree - I know loads that would take a "Dublin based" role if they could operate out of a more regional hub and just go into Dublin 2/3 days a week.

Riskymove wrote: »

I know people based in Kerry in Dublin on a regular basis

Moving entire Departments and, as you say, policy areas in particular has not worked. The previous approach to Decentralisation worked but at a cost of career progression.

And that’s a key point, isn’t it? If you take a role outside Dublin, it’s a lot harder to move up the chain without moving back into Dublin.

adrem wrote: »

I agree - you could put hubs out as far as Athlone and have them go into Dublin (say) 2 days a week for meetings etc. It is a bit ridiculous that so many of the POs are based exclusively and full time in Dublin. You wouldn't even need to make big changes to work practices for a more hub/remote type model to work

I'd agree with this.

The Garda post was offered as a normal post first.

From AHCPS


Panels & PO Sequence

2017 Open Principal Officer Panel: A panel of 78 is in place since 21st November 2017. There is no closure date specified and the Association has informed DPER that it is desirable that a closure date is specified for future competitions. DPER advises that such panels usually exist for in or around a two-year period. There were 1639 applicants for the competition with only 9% of successful candidates from the private sector. The last person assigned was at number 53 but 53 in all have not been assigned as successful candidates remain on the panel awaiting regional appointments.



PO Sequence: The Arbitration Board ruling of September 2015 introduced a requirement that every two in three PO appointments must be from the Open Panel. The Association believes there is a need for a reduction of the more favoured position given to open recruitment from the Open Panel as against internal competitions. There is growing evidence that the current system hampers workforce planning and internal career development in departments. We met with DPER on 25th September 2018 to emphasise this point and that we understand many departments support this view. Following these representations DPER is to further engage with departments before reaching a final position.



PO1 Panel: There were 12 in total placed on the panel and the last person assigned was at number 8.

Maybenever wrote: »

Seems that anyone waiting for a regional placement is in for a tough ride. I know of a few on the open and there are still people on the internal.

It is abundantly clear, and always has been, that those waiting for regional place will in many cases be having a tough time getting roles.

Maybenever wrote: »

:rolleyes: Sure. But it seems to me that a preference for internal over external just to suit certain members of the AHCS that appear to have kicked off might not result in the best person for the job (and vice versa tbf). Although how you rank one v. the other given that there are different processes involved, I don't know.

I stand by what I said earlier in that you could carry out many PO roles from regional locations, at least part of the week. There is clearly a demand there, perhaps the service should react? (as a discussion point)

Two out of every three appointments must be from the open panel. Would you be in favour of 100%?

I think certain Departments are cheesed off that they lose some of the people they'd rather keep, and they also have the double-whammy of not knowing how many of their existing staff are on open panels, which makes planning very difficult for them.

Regardless of the sequencing, people in regional panels will always find it more difficult.

[QUOTE=Maybenever;108376207Although how you rank one v. the other given that there are different processes involved, I don't know.

[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it is simply "better the devil you know" for Departments. Open panels retain a bit of the unknown though also opportunities...but they think they know what they are getting with an internal promotion.

Jim O Callaghan asked all Departments a Parliamentary Question about appointment from this panel last week. Sorry I can't post links but the answers are on the Oireachtas website.

Xofpod wrote: »

Cheers. It's at: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PQ-16-10-2018-281

Thanks for this. Very interesting and Justice appear to be balancing things as they should - it’s a pity the PQ didn’t go across all Departments!

Bear in mind that posts filled from specialist open competitions, and posts filled by transfers from other areas of the civil service, also go towards meeting a Department’s external liabilities. So it’s not just a matter of how many they take from the general Open panel.