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Principal Officer in the Civil Service

  • 20-02-2015 10:49am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭ Zipppy


    Principal Officer roles advertised this morning...


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭ Yeboah


    Probably a better chance of getting on the mission to Mars but best of luck to all those who apply.

    Personally I would prefer to see the PAS take on a a lot more EOs and let these people progress to HEO, AP, PO but that my humble opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    Anyone who applied got a mail today, results due out in a few days. Don't have any detail but doesn't sound like too many applied ... Only two posts on here compared to thousands on CO thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭ Slydice


    I'd say a lot of people applying for PO would be in the AP grade. I'd say many of them wouldn't know/use boards. Of those that do, they might be too busy to post often.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 wopbop22


    I got the message. It was hard to know if I did well in the online tests. How did others get on? Does anyone know what the next stage might be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    hi, good to hear from other applicants. next stage is competitive interview in May. Best of luck.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,247 Tigger99


    How do you know next stage is competitive interview? The message nor the accompanying material specifies that? In fact it suggests possibly another test in the document we got weeks ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    Tigger99 wrote: »
    How do you know next stage is competitive interview? The message nor the accompanying material specifies that? In fact it suggests possibly another test in the document we got weeks ago.

    Sorry assumed on basis that next stage, for those who get there, is in Chapter House in May according to the recent letter. On basis of the earlier documentation and previous experience I expect supervised tests followed by interview. I could be wrong of course but difficult and expensive to call people twice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,247 Tigger99


    Are you guessing or do you know much about the PAS process? The whole point of supervised tests is to (a) validate the unsupervised test results and (b) whittle down the numbers that would get called to interview. So it wouldn't make sense to have these tests and an interview on the same day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    Tigger99 wrote: »
    Are you guessing or do you know much about the PAS process? The whole point of supervised tests is to (a) validate the unsupervised test results and (b) whittle down the numbers that would get called to interview. So it wouldn't make sense to have these tests and an interview on the same day.

    My understanding is that the whittling down for interview is done on the basis of aptitude tests and second half of application form in first instance.

    Second supervised aptitude test is to confirm no cheating not primarily for whittling down purposes other than those thought to have cheated. applicants may have anither assessment at this stage - eg prepare presentation fir interview panel based in policy papers which get an hour or so to study.


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    Remember we have all submitted detailed forms. I would expect a multi faceted next stage consisting of written exercises, presentation and interview in the same day. I wouldn't really expect a second web (albeit supervised) test.

    Also as a poster above said that most who applied for this wouldn't be on here ... My intelligence is telling me that most who applied are already in the civil\public service. I don't have definite information on numbers but I suspect or estimate no more than maybe 2,000 applied.

    I would say the form put a lot off plus a salary starting at €79,000 is not that attractive to those outside the public service who are at a level in their career equivalent to APs (I.e. The level below POs). For someone coming from outside you have to deduct the Pension Levy which would be around €6,000 on that salary so the salary is "really" only €73,000 plus there is no bonus, commission, free travel tickets, free health insurance, company cars etc.

    Whilst some will say €73,000 is a good salary it is but the reality is it isn't great if you are trying to attract the people you want as POs.

    We will know tomorrow or Monday anyways.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The_Conductor


    I don't have definite information on numbers but I suspect or estimate no more than maybe 2,000 applied.

    2,000?
    I'd be quite surprised if 200 applied.
    Do people actually have any idea what the role entails?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 wopbop22


    It is difficult to know what the next stage is. I would have expected supervised repeats of the tests which seems to be the norm for recent EO and AO competitions. How did people find the online tests? It was hard to be sure what the 'correct' answers to the situational part was but I thought the verbal and numerical section was not as difficult as I expected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    Wopbop ... AO and PO are worlds apart!
    Conductor ... I would think half the APOs in the Service have applied plus equivalents in public sector like Grade 8s in HSE and the like. You would easily get 2,000 and I would say that they would know what it entails. I don't think though that a lot of "external" candidates would though (hopefully).


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    1,000 applied for the PO competition in 2007, 12 posts and i think 60 or so called to interview. Success rate 1.2%. I found exercises easier than expected too but maybe missed catches. In any event imagine an averaging exercise will be done so if all do well, the test average or pass mark will be high.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    Does anyone know how many PO vacancies are to be filled? Imagine more than 12 with incentivised retirements etc? Also expect more than 1,000 applicants however, as secure, interesting job is very attractive even if salary is not great for level of seniority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 wopbop22


    Well it looks like it will be early next week before we receive notification from PAS. Had hoped to hear before the weekend. I would have imagined there would be quite a few vacancies but I have heard that some Departments have had internal interviews for promotion to PO so I suppose not all PO vacancies will be filled from this panel


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    The 2007 situation was different in that only posts where a person resigned not retired could be filled from that panel. That was at a time when open recruitment to grades above AO didn't happen.

    There is massive attrition at the CO and EO levels involving open competitions. There won't be anything like that attrition in this competition. DPER will want to see posts filled from it but Dept's are busy sorting out internals and will only come to this panel if they have to.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The_Conductor


    Some internal competitions had closes over 6 months ago- and stage 2s haven't been announced yet. The logjam internally- is quite remarkable........


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    Interesting Conductor ... What Dept's?

    I know in Education they have just formed a panel having started and finished the competition in February and March. DPER have had one as far as I know and justice and DFAT too. They are making promos.

    We'll see what happens, it all happens by magic behind closed doors usually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭ RiseToMe


    Results are out. Hope you all did well!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    Delighted to be one of the 333 through to next stage which I imagine is a CV whittle down as 333 (wow, big number) is surely too many to go to Chapter House?


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ Glinda


    Maybe there were only 333 of us :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    And 300 positions!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 wopbop22


    I got a result in the 450 - 500 bracket so didn't make it through. The standard must be high as my individual scores in each section were over 500. Best of luck to everyone else in the next stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    wopbop22 wrote: »
    I got a result in the 450 - 500 bracket so didn't make it through. The standard must be high as my individual scores in each section were over 500. Best of luck to everyone else in the next stage.

    Hard luck Wopbop and sorry to see you go, probably see you at the next competition flying through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭ KCC


    Through as well. I'd love to be able to edit my application form now - I don't think it's good enough in hindsight


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭✭ Public2015


    When the email says...

    "I am pleased to inform you that you have reached the qualifying standard and have been placed [number] on the order of merit."

    ...is the [number] the position you came in the tests? In other words, if it said "...have been placed 1 on the order of merit." (not me by the way), would that mean you came 1st out of all the applicants?

    Just curious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    Yes that is what it means.

    There are a gang of us who are not through who are scratching our heads. I know one chap who is true and when compared answers on the analysis paper and there is now way he could have scored more than me but did - so don't know how the papers were scored but it wasn't just on your answers.

    The other aspect is that the information booklet and form spoke about and sought information on senior management experience and experience in specific areas; I don't mean to be rude to anyone who is true but I am not sure the exam has produced a list which is consistent with the objectives! Will be interesting to see what happens with the next stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ Tivoli1300


    I imagine what they do it set a cut off point for the aptitude test say the top 30 percent. Assuming 1200 apply that would mean 400. That is still too big a group to interview so an assessment of senior management competency is then done on the basis of the second half of the questionnaire bringing that group down to the number they will interview - 50 or 60 at a guess based on what was reported about the 2007 competition.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭ The Veteran


    333 through is a strange number and maybe it is one third of the applications. I wouldn't compare this competition to 07 - only very specific posts (those posts vacated following resignations NOT retirements) could be filled from open recruitment in 07. I would expect more than 50 to be interviewed but I think Tivoli is right 333 will not be put through the half or full day process which will be the substantive part of the next phase.

    We'll see though ...


    (Apologies for "true" twice in my last post rather than "through")


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