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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

  • 15-10-2018 12:02pm
    #1
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    kuro68k wrote: »
    The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.

    1. The EU
    2. Remainers
    3. Ireland
    4. Corbyn


«134567…193

Comments

  • #2
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Hurrache wrote: »
    May supposed to be having a press conference on Brexit today. Commentators over there saying it's unusual as they're usually not given outside of the afters of meetings etc. Press photographers also saying that her team have been blocking the media, using cars, from taking any photos of her on her way into Number 10, taking her in through a side/back door.

    A deal? She's going to walk? Call a snap GE?

    Or another see through "lady is not for turning" speech for the tabloids?


  • #3
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Hurrache wrote: »
    May supposed to be having a press conference on Brexit today. Commentators over there saying it's unusual as they're usually not given outside of the afters of meetings etc. Press photographers also saying that her team have been blocking the media, using cars, from taking any photos of her on her way into Number 10, taking her in through a side/back door.

    Has she changed appearance drastically or something ? What a strange thing to be doing.


  • #4
    kuro68k
    Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭kuro68k


    flatty wrote: »
    I think that even if corbyn votes against a deal, and whips the vote, it will damage him little. The more fervent in the press want a hard brexit in any case, and corbyn has been consistent in arguing for a softish brexit, and can continually point to this. The tories are carrying the parcel here. They will be foursquare landed with the backlash.
    I've said before that in years to come, the drivers of the bus in the public eye, May, fox, Davis, bojo and Jrm will not be able to safely walk down a public street.

    The Tory press doesn't know how to deal with Corbyn. Everything they say about him comes over as either ridiculously extreme (e.g. it's a communist/terrorist/Russian agent) or ridiculously trivial.

    And right now they don't know what to do to get their suicidal brexit fantasies because they need the Tory party to deliver but aren't sure that May will be able to do it. If they force May out they might get Corbyn or brexit cancelled entirely, but if they don't they might end up with the dreaded "bad deal".


  • #5
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Why are charlatans like Johnson and Davies given any credibility over in the UK.

    Johnson came out recently and said the reason he backed the backstop originally was that he was lied to. Is he implying that the PM lied to the cabinet? And that Davies went along with this lie? On why didn't Raab explain that when he found out on becoming the Minister.

    It is a pretty serious charge to lay against the PM, not to even begin to think of it being the leader of his own party.

    And now Davies is claiming that TM has to go if she continues on. TM, remember, is the democratically elected leader of the Tory party. They knew want they were getting when they voted for her. Isn't that how they think democracy works?

    But why are the these, and others like them such as DIS, still allowed to give their opinions when at every stage they have been shown to have no answer and no ideas.


  • #6
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    lawred2 wrote: »
    A deal? She's going to walk? Call a snap GE?

    Or another see through "lady is not for turning" speech for the tabloids?

    I suspect the later, outlining how reasonable they have been throughout the whole process, and all that stuff.


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  • #7
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Leroy42 wrote:
    But why are the these, and others like them such as DIS, still allowed to give their opinions when at every stage they have been shown to have no answer and no ideas.


    They are free to give their opinions. It is up to others to listen to them - or elect them.

    A country gets the politicians it elects, and therefore deserves. I have no sympathy for them and neither does anyone who matters in the EU.


  • #8
    Panrich
    Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Coveney saying that the agreement on the backstop Britain made had no time limit, and someone posts a pic of the agreement backing what he says up in the thread below.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1051760868512452608

    I'm not sure that leaking of this sort is useful at this stage. By all means when the deal is finally off but not at this is a critical time.

    Leaks via RTE almost scuppered the agreement last December and we should not risk publicising the content of putative deals that remain unsigned.


  • #9
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,542 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: As the old thread is nearing 10,000 posts, it's time for a new thread.

    The old thread is here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108354990#post108354990

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #10
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Panrich wrote:
    I'm not sure that leaking of this sort is useful at this stage. By all means when the deal is finally off but not at this is a critical time.

    Leaks via RTE almost scuppered the agreement last December and we should not risk publicising the content of putative deals that remain unsigned.


    Nothing has been leaked? This is old news going back to December, made public in official EU documents, presumably signed off by the May's government.


  • #11
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,542 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    kuro68k wrote: »
    The Tory press doesn't know how to deal with Corbyn. Everything they say about him comes over as either ridiculously extreme (e.g. it's a communist/terrorist/Russian agent) or ridiculously trivial.

    And right now they don't know what to do to get their suicidal brexit fantasies because they need the Tory party to deliver but aren't sure that May will be able to do it. If they force May out they might get Corbyn or brexit cancelled entirely, but if they don't they might end up with the dreaded "bad deal".

    They can't because they've been legitimizing anti-intellectual debating tactics for a long time now. We can now see that some Corbyn supporters are now, not entirely unreasonable dismissing much of the Tory press as being "fake news". I mean, when you look at some of the utter nonsense that's been hurled at the man like his being a Czech spy or the nonsense about how he dresses I can somewhat sympathize and that's before you look a the business of Brexit.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #12
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    Panrich wrote: »
    I'm not sure that leaking of this sort is useful at this stage. By all means when the deal is finally off but not at this is a critical time.

    Leaks via RTE almost scuppered the agreement last December and we should not risk publicising the content of putative deals that remain unsigned.

    He's referring to their written assurances last Dec and March.


  • #13
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Panrich wrote: »
    I'm not sure that leaking of this sort is useful at this stage.

    Is 2017 classified now, and pointing to a public position taken by the UK back then is now leaking a secret?


  • #14
    flatty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭flatty


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Hurrache wrote: »
    May supposed to be having a press conference on Brexit today. Commentators over there saying it's unusual as they're usually not given outside of the afters of meetings etc. Press photographers also saying that her team have been blocking the media, using cars, from taking any photos of her on her way into Number 10, taking her in through a side/back door.

    A deal? She's going to walk? Call a snap GE?

    Or another see through "lady is not for turning" speech for the tabloids?
    I'd go with option 3


  • #15
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    lawred2 wrote: »
    A deal? She's going to walk? Call a snap GE?

    Or another see through "lady is not for turning" speech for the tabloids?

    :pac: You know exactly what it will be!


  • #16
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,752 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1051624600600289281

    The radio piece one can listen to and feel somewhat intelligent if one does or say something stupid, it can't be as bad as the above...


  • #17
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,508 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    It'll be a standard TMPM 'Let me be clear' speech, a Monday treat for us.


  • #18
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I do get the feeling that a deal is done, and that TM is simply playing for time. She needs to keep up the facade of the strong leader fighting the good fight. She will "end up" with some 'concession' that TM personally strong armed the leaders during the EU summit.

    It won't be a concession, simply they will let TM sell it as such. So a UK wide backstop will be sold as a concession, when in reality it is simply taking one of the options always available.

    Whatever happens, TM knows that they simply cannot crash out on 29th March. They are not ready for it. And whilst the Brexiteers like IDS may continue to say that it will hurt the EU a lot as well, TM is not up for election in the EU. The only thing that matters is the UK.

    She cannot go into an election with food shortages, mobile hone bills increasing etc and simply say that people in Ireland are doing nearly as bad!

    So she has a choice, and the EU have made that choice pretty clear from the off.

    A deal will be done, face saving will reach epidemic proportions and slowly Brexit will start to drift away from the headlines.


  • #19
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Someone put this comment on the Indy article summarizing what is going on and it's honestly brilliant:
    ’Nightmare On Brexit Street’ a blockbuster written, produced and directed by the English Conservative Party with technical advice from Nigel Forage

    And someone linked this handy table the next time someone brings up "how important UK is"; red means UK affected trade while blue is EU 27 trade. Feel free to ask the person which is the more important one of the two.
    attachment.php?aid=36


  • #20
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    It'll be a standard TMPM 'Let me be clear' speech, a Monday treat for us.

    Let me be very clear, tough negotiations, strong and stable, party for everyone, end of austerity, global Britain, NHS, housing crisis, dancing queen.


  • #21
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I do get the feeling that a deal is done,

    Dunno, you may be one of the few left that seem to think that at this point.


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  • #22
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Zubeneschamali wrote:
    Let me be very clear, tough negotiations, strong and stable, party for everyone, end of austerity, global Britain, NHS, housing crisis, dancing queen.


    It will be aimed at her own party. The rest of us will just be eavesdropping.


  • #23
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    When did this backstop to the backstop come into play, And will a backstop to that be eventually be needed?


  • #24
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,808 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    It certainly won't be a deal.

    It won't be her resignation

    It won't be a general election. She would hold a press conference for that

    I doubt it will be anything particularly exciting. It will probably just be an update on how things are going.


  • #25
    farmchoice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Dunno, you may be one of the few left that seem to think that at this point.
    id agree with leroy, yesterday the deal was finalized, rabb went running to Brussels to tell them all to shut their mouths until treasa says its ok to run with it, ie at the very last minute possible.
    the DUP are now a handy foil for May they can be painted as the bad guys were in reality there are 40MPs of her own party ready to stab her in the back as well, so even if the dup were right behind her she would have the same problem with the ERG.


    when it comes to it it will be either labour abstain, because the stay in the customs union or there is an election and labour come back and agree to much same plan.


  • #26
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    farmchoice wrote: »
    id agree with leroy, yesterday the deal was finalized, rabb went running to Brussels to tell them all to shut their mouths until treasa says its ok to run with it, ie at the very last minute possible.
    the DUP are now a handy foil for May they can be painted as the bad guys were in reality there are 40MPs of her own party ready to stab her in the back as well, so even if the dup were right behind her she would have the same problem with the ERG.


    when it comes to it it will be either labour abstain, because the stay in the customs union or there is an election and labour come back and agree to much same plan.

    The deal wasn't finalised though, it was tentatively agreed between the negotiators. It still had to go through the EU Commission (probably ok), UK parl (prob not ok), ERG (almost certainly not ok) and the DUP (almost never ok).

    Assuming no time limit to backstop - which would not have been agreed to by EU negotiators.


  • #27
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Rhineshark wrote: »
    The deal wasn't finalised though, it was tentatively agreed between the negotiators. It still had to go through the EU Commission (probably ok), UK parl (prob not ok), ERG (almost certainly not ok) and the DUP (almost never ok).

    Assuming no time limit to backstop - which would not have been agreed to by EU negotiators.

    Well yes, but then one must think that TM has not been kept abreast of the technical negotiations. And this is simply not true since she herself took over the lead role when Davies quit.

    So either the deal was agreed or Raab went over there on the basis on not knowing and cancelled it when he found out.

    The 2nd option is very unlikely, but it true raises all sorts of questions about how serious TM is treating this. She was seemingly caught off guard in Salzburg, and now we are supposed to believe that her negotiating team is not in contact with her or working on her instructions.


  • #28
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Why are charlatans like Johnson and Davies given any credibility over in the UK.

    Johnson came out recently and said the reason he backed the backstop originally was that he was lied to. Is he implying that the PM lied to the cabinet? And that Davies went along with this lie? On why didn't Raab explain that when he found out on becoming the Minister.

    It is a pretty serious charge to lay against the PM, not to even begin to think of it being the leader of his own party.

    And now Davies is claiming that TM has to go if she continues on. TM, remember, is the democratically elected leader of the Tory party. They knew want they were getting when they voted for her. Isn't that how they think democracy works?

    But why are the these, and others like them such as DIS, still allowed to give their opinions when at every stage they have been shown to have no answer and no ideas.


    You only have to look to the likes of Farage, Johnson or Davis and their reaction to see how Brexit is going. If they are happy and owning it then you know they are winning, but if they are looking for people to blame then you know it is not going well. At the moment the blame seems to be with the EU, Remainers who just doesn't believe enough and Theresa May.

    It seems that there is a consensus that Raab and his walkout is for show and as many predict it is because they need to sell a deal to the DUP and Brexiteers and they need time. But people talking about this stunt will only resolve those that want a Brexit. This would be a dangerous manouvre to do with people who seem intent on leaving.


  • #29
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,213 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    On Tip O`Neill`s remark that all politics is local,, could a case not be made that the current impasse is nothing more that May, (and by association her party), simply looking to hold on to power in Britain ?
    To do that they need the support of the DUP. I cannot see that they will retain that support with an indefinite backstop of NI remaining in the Single Market, but if it is time limited then it would be difficult for the DUP to scupper any deal.


  • #30
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So is this a press conference outside Downing Street or is it remarks given in the House of Commons ?


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  • #31
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So is this a press conference outside Downing Street or is it remarks given in the House of Commons ?

    House of commons.


  • #32
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Parliament Live TV ... now


    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/a41a771f-6d3f-4826-b215-40762d3b2737


  • #33
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    "Precious union" go away ye would drop the North in a hot second if you could.


  • #34
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Or text updates here
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-updates-theresa-may-dup-barnier-eu-talks-deal-conservatives-raab-a8584201.html#post-1142983832

    She hasn't started off despondent anyway.


  • #35
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    oh no


  • #36
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Nothing separating NI and the UK....... except for abortion and same sex marriage


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  • #37
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Ah well, time limit on the backstop is what she wants.


  • #38
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    It doesn't mention temporary in the document last December did it ?


  • #39
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Nothing separating NI and the UK....... except for abortion and same sex marriage
    And the Irish Sea.


  • #40
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,585 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    No NI-only backstop to the backstop. Essentially they want the UK trade agreement wrapped up as part of the withdrawal agreement, which must also allow them to enter their own trade deals. Doubling down on the rhetoric, can’t see the way out here.


  • #41
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    can’t see the way out here.
    thats why I said "oh no"


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  • #42
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    It doesn't mention temporary in the document last December did it ?

    No.

    https://twitter.com/mark_johnston/status/1051770307923599360


  • #43
    CZ 453
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭CZ 453


    She's sticking to the keep the union stance. Can't see any deal now. Temporary backstop shafts us at some point.


  • #44
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    A point that seems to have been forgotten in Britain is that the DUP campaigned against the good Friday agreement.
    Hardly surprising that they don't consider it binding in any way.


  • #45
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The speaker of the House of Commons sounds like a school principle at times.


  • #46
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    The speaker of the House of Commons sounds like a school principle at times.
    watch a few PMQs and you'll see why


  • #47
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    That was an interesting question. I wonder how Theresa May will answer it ?


  • #48
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    That was an interesting question. I wonder how Theresa May will answer it ?

    She won't.


  • #49
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    That was an interesting question. I wonder how Theresa May will answer it ?

    For those not watching it live.... What was the question?


  • #50
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    trellheim wrote: »
    The speaker of the House of Commons sounds like a school principle at times.
    watch a few PMQs and you'll see why
    I do watch them when I can. They are different to the dail debates which at times sound painfully scripted.


  • #51
    Shelga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Jeremy Corbyn is right about one thing anyway- this is a complete shambles.

    I’d consider moving back to the UK for career reasons right now if not for Brexit- it’s now deeply unappealing. Ireland looks better in almost every way.


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