Dublin - BusConnects

sharper · 21-09-2018 10:31am

Qrt wrote: »

You mean routes that were diverted time and time again only to result in a bus system that makes no sense? Adding best part of half an hour to some routes?

Exactly and just think about the number of new estates being built all across the greater Dublin area. All of these want the bus running through them every 15 minutes and some of them will get it.

People are failing to consider what the Bus network looks like in 5 or 10 years time if it stays the way it is now. This can't be solved by running more busses along routes that get longer and longer which then all clog each other up trying to pass through the city centre.

CatInABox · 21-09-2018 11:15am

CatInABox wrote: »

Shane Ross once again finding another way to disappoint. Is he the biggest let down in Irish political history?

I've edited this, as I don't think it was entirely fair on Shane Ross. I don't think he's a good minister, but in this case I don't think the article accurately depicted what happened.

specialbyte · 25-09-2018 12:11pm

The Dublin Cycling Campaign has come out in support for the network redesign for BusConnects. Though they question the lack of cycling infrastructure on roads that will see large increases in the number of buses per hour. Particularly roads that are outside of the NTA's Core Bus Corridor Project. It mostly seems to affect the orbital roads in the suburbs and some city centre streets like Cuffe Street, which has no buses now but will have the F spine and the 7 route running along it.

There is a list of what roads will see increases in the number of buses per hour at the end of the submission in that news article. Interesting analysis.

https://www.dublincycling.com/cycling/busconnects-network-redesign-good-cycle-infrastructure-needed

Pixel Eater · 25-09-2018 12:46pm

Has anyone noticed that since the recent announcement of the Bus Connect project many people are being complimentary to the current bus network, whereas previously they gave out yards about it...

schemingbohemia · 25-09-2018 1:10pm

Much of the problem with the discourse at the moment is it's being led by older people who are not time sensitive, the X bus gets me to the local shop in the afternoon, or by people who have not actually looked at what the changes are. The misinformation peddled by political parties and NBRU is on a massive scale.
And the message that this will actually attract people out of their cars and onto a reliable, speedy service that will reach far more places, more easily than is currently the case is getting lost - and for a flat fare for 90 minutes no matter the mode of transport!
Sadly facts don't sit well with some of the opposition to the DRAFT changes proposed.

sharper · 25-09-2018 1:17pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that since the recent announcement of the Bus Connect project many people are being complimentary to the current bus network, whereas previously they gave out yards about it...

I can't say I've noticed this amongst people actually using the busses. People talking on social media etc often give me the impression they use the service infrequently.

This time of year is pretty much the worst for Dublin Bus. The schools are back and colleges are opening one by one. You go from being able to get a seat to having to squeeze on and stand and/or watch multiple full busses fly past while people at your own stop just give up and walk away.

prunudo · 25-09-2018 1:30pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Much of the problem with the discourse at the moment is it's being led by older people who are not time sensitive, the X bus gets me to the local shop in the afternoon, or by people who have not actually looked at what the changes are. The misinformation peddled by political parties and NBRU is on a massive scale.
And the message that this will actually attract people out of their cars and onto a reliable, speedy service that will reach far more places, more easily than is currently the case is getting lost - and for a flat fare for 90 minutes no matter the mode of transport!
Sadly facts don't sit well with some of the opposition to the DRAFT changes proposed.

Like when they announced the Metro Link plan, they need to work on their PR and go on a proper charm offensive telling people how great it will make their lives once they get used to the new plan.

schemingbohemia · 25-09-2018 1:38pm

Yes! The PR has been an absolute shambles. No lessons learned from Metrolink, once the field is left open to falsehoods and misrepresentation from the very beginning it's hard to bring it back to facts.
Should have gone with a massive campaign focussed on:
- 90 minute Fare on all modes
- Get to way more places than you currently can, no need to go via An Lár
- Massive increase in frequencies on main spines
- A draft interchange design with CCTV, lighting, seating and shelters - so that people can visualise it properly
- Draft bus priority measures at Blanch/Liffey Valley to counteract the Xmas traffic jam scenario
- they should have had the spine animations at the beginning, not near the end

CatInABox · 25-09-2018 4:49pm

They should really promote the health benefits of having an increased ridership on buses as well.

For example, using totally made up figures:

A 20% increase in the number of people using buses means X amount of cars taken off the roads, which will lead to Y reduction on the amount of lung cancers caused by pollution.

A decrease in commuting times means that people will have a better work life balance, with more time with their kids

Sam Russell · 25-09-2018 6:03pm

CatInABox wrote: »

They should really promote the health benefits of having an increased ridership on buses as well.

For example, using totally made up figures:

A 20% increase in the number of people using buses means X amount of cars taken off the roads, which will lead to Y reduction on the amount of lung cancers caused by pollution.

A decrease in commuting times means that people will have a better work life balance, with more time with their kids

Actually, it would be better to say a 20% increase in the number taking the bus instead of the car would result in the buses travelling 10% quicker, and journey times being reduced by 6%.

It might be worth pointing out that the 90 min fare would be significantly cheaper for most commuters. Also, the increased ridership should not threaten the fare box so subsidy is not increased.

(If any of that is true).

Bray Head · 25-09-2018 9:10pm

In general I'm supportive of the flat fare principle, with no reductions for short trips.

But let's suppose it's €2.50 for 90 minutes, maybe €1.30 for kids.

A trip in and out of city centre daytime at a weekend for a family of four comes to over €15. For most people (me included) that's well above breakeven point for driving.

For me the price of a taxi to city centre is €12. For an evening out for two it's a toss-up already whether we take the bus or taxi given the door-to-door convenience and speed.

Stephen15 · 25-09-2018 9:28pm

Bray Head wrote: »

In general I'm supportive of the flat fare principle, with no reductions for short trips.

But let's suppose it's €2.50 for 90 minutes, maybe €1.30 for kids.

A trip in and out of city centre daytime at a weekend for a family of four comes to over €15. For most people (me included) that's well above breakeven point for driving.

For me the price of a taxi to city centre is €12. For an evening out for two it's a toss-up already whether we take the bus or taxi given the door-to-door convenience and speed.

Tbh most journeys into the city centre from the suburbs cost the current maximum Leap fare at €2.60. The Leap card child fare is currently €1.05 and 80c during school hours so I'm not sure where you're getting the €1.30 figure from.

Qrt · 25-09-2018 9:36pm

Bray Head wrote: »

In general I'm supportive of the flat fare principle, with no reductions for short trips.

Hell will freeze over before I pay full fare to get to The Square! (read this comically and not attacking-ly)

CatInABox · 25-09-2018 11:00pm

I've been monitoring the reaction to the 10 minute dart schedule in the thread on the commuting forum, and it has not been pretty at all. Capacity problem all over the place, trains delayed all the time, and knock on impacts on commuter trains all over the country.

Part of it is possibly driver related, but a fair chunk of the problem seems to be a lack of dart carriages to maintain capacity, resulting in some trains running 4 carriages during rush hour.

Seeing as the 10 minute dart schedule is a pretty big assumption of BusConnects, what impact do you think this will have? I can't see the problems being fixed by this time next year, as new carriages will have to be bought, something that will take years.

LeinsterDub · 25-09-2018 11:06pm

CatInABox wrote: »

I've been monitoring the reaction to the 10 minute dart schedule in the thread on the commuting forum, and it has not been pretty at all. Capacity problem all over the place, trains delayed all the time, and knock on impacts on commuter trains all over the country.

Part of it is possibly driver related, but a fair chunk of the problem seems to be a lack of dart carriages to maintain capacity, resulting in some trains running 4 carriages during rush hour.

Seeing as the 10 minute dart schedule is a pretty big assumption of BusConnects, what impact do you think this will have? I can't see the problems being fixed by this time next year, as new carriages will have to be bought, something that will take years.

The government have 2 years to buy more trains. Capacity issue is very easily solved especially if they buy the hybrids and fast track the dart expansion

loyatemu · 26-09-2018 12:10am

CatInABox wrote: »

I've been monitoring the reaction to the 10 minute dart schedule in the thread on the commuting forum, and it has not been pretty at all. Capacity problem all over the place, trains delayed all the time, and knock on impacts on commuter trains all over the country.

Part of it is possibly driver related, but a fair chunk of the problem seems to be a lack of dart carriages to maintain capacity, resulting in some trains running 4 carriages during rush hour.

Seeing as the 10 minute dart schedule is a pretty big assumption of BusConnects, what impact do you think this will have? I can't see the problems being fixed by this time next year, as new carriages will have to be bought, something that will take years.

The new timetable is showing Irish Rail can't reliably run trains every 10 minutes on a closed system, it's not doing much for the argument that DB will be able to run reliable 4 minute frequency on public roads (even if the priority measures are in place). The whole premise of BusConnects is that services will run at the promised frequencies, without big gaps appearing or bunching as happens now.

hmmm · 26-09-2018 12:19am

CatInABox wrote: »

Seeing as the 10 minute dart schedule is a pretty big assumption of BusConnects, what impact do you think this will have? I can't see the problems being fixed by this time next year, as new carriages will have to be bought, something that will take years.

This and LUAS Cross city were the two big public transport initiatives this year. Neither were on the same scale as bus connects, and the NTA have to be lot to do to convince people why they should trust them.

CatInABox · 26-09-2018 7:24am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The government have 2 years to buy more trains. Capacity issue is very easily solved especially if they buy the hybrids and fast track the dart expansion

It's due to go out to tender late 2019 (which will probably be delayed), the tendering process could take years. BusConnects is meant to come in late 2019 (which, in fairness, will probably be delayed also)

LeinsterDub · 26-09-2018 8:10am

CatInABox wrote: »

It's due to go out to tender late 2019 (which will probably be delayed), the tendering process could take years. BusConnects is meant to come in late 2019 (which, in fairness, will probably be delayed also)

Hearing 2020 on Twitter now.

CatInABox · 26-09-2018 8:18am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Actually, it would be better to say a 20% increase in the number taking the bus instead of the car would result in the buses travelling 10% quicker, and journey times being reduced by 6%.

It might be worth pointing out that the 90 min fare would be significantly cheaper for most commuters. Also, the increased ridership should not threaten the fare box so subsidy is not increased.

(If any of that is true).

The thing is though, politicians don't really care about journey times, or anything transport related to be honest. Going down the "BusConnects reduces cancer" angle means that they may pay more attention to the positive aspects of it.

CatInABox · 26-09-2018 8:19am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Hearing 2020 on Twitter now.

Considering Leo has told the NTA to come back with major modifications, 2020 might be optimistic.

LeinsterDub · 26-09-2018 8:22am

hmmm wrote: »

This and LUAS Cross city were the two big public transport initiatives this year. Neither were on the same scale as bus connects, and the NTA have to be lot to do to convince people why they should trust them.

Not sure if this is splitting hairs but the NTA are only doing what they are told. They told DCC that college green should be in place first and that extra trams were needed. Also said the same about dart.

bk · 26-09-2018 11:08am

CatInABox wrote: »

It's due to go out to tender late 2019 (which will probably be delayed), the tendering process could take years. BusConnects is meant to come in late 2019 (which, in fairness, will probably be delayed also)

The refurbishment of the 2700 class should be coming online this year, start of next year, which should free up some other trains to come back to the Dublin region and add extra capacity.

LXFlyer · 26-09-2018 12:31pm

bk wrote: »

The refurbishment of the 2700 class should be coming online this year, start of next year, which should free up some other trains to come back to the Dublin region and add extra capacity.

Unfortunately that tender has not even been awarded yet, and work has not started and may not even happen at all. If that remains the case, we are unlikely to see additional rolling stock in service until sometime in 2020 at the earliest, and if it is new stock, probably 2021.

But of course the NTA knows best.

Zebra3 · 27-09-2018 2:17pm

CatInABox wrote: »

They should really promote the health benefits of having an increased ridership on buses as well.

For example, using totally made up figures:

A 20% increase in the number of people using buses means X amount of cars taken off the roads, which will lead to Y reduction on the amount of lung cancers caused by pollution.

A decrease in commuting times means that people will have a better work life balance, with more time with their kids

The last point is massive and has been totally missed.

Would leave opposing politicians looking like mugs.

marno21 · 15-10-2018 1:35am

The NTA have published a PIN for tender of a contract for Environmental Impact Assessment, Transport Impact Assessment and Construction Strategy for the 16 Core Bus Corridors announced earlier this year. Concept design for the 16 corridors is complete. Emerging Preferred Routes have been identified and will be put to non statutory public consultation in Q4 2018

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=136601&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Qrt · 15-10-2018 6:51am

marno21 wrote: »

The NTA have published a PIN for tender of a contract for Environmental Impact Assessment, Transport Impact Assessment and Construction Strategy for the 16 Core Bus Corridors announced earlier this year. Concept design for the 16 corridors is complete. Emerging Preferred Routes have been identified and will be put to non statutory public consultation in Q4 2018

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=136601&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

So it'll be a while yet before we see the detailed proposals are released?

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 7:53am

Qrt wrote: »

So it'll be a while yet before we see the detailed proposals are released?

You won’t see proposals to EIS detail this time around, but we should see what they are proposing in terms of bus gates, traffic restrictions and road widening (and indicative CPO activity), for each corridor.

Whether they actually happen to the scale the NTA would like is another thing, as I suspect they will end up being subjected to many legal challenges where CPOs are involved.

People also need to remember that the infrastructure element is a 10 year project unlike the network redesign, which was being proposed to be delivered without most of the infrastructure works being in place.

Qrt · 15-10-2018 10:03am

LXFlyer wrote: »

You won’t see proposals to EIS detail this time around, but we should see what they are proposing in terms of bus gates, traffic restrictions and road widening (and indicative CPO activity), for each corridor.

Whether they actually happen to the scale the NTA would like is another thing, as I suspect they will end up being subjected to many legal challenges where CPOs are involved.

People also need to remember that the infrastructure element is a 10 year project unlike the network redesign, which was being proposed to be delivered without most of the infrastructure works being in place.

I'm trying to think of the most difficult corridor planned, Kimmage most likely?

CatInABox · 15-10-2018 10:15am

LXFlyer wrote: »

You won’t see proposals to EIS detail this time around, but we should see what they are proposing in terms of bus gates, traffic restrictions and road widening (and indicative CPO activity), for each corridor.

Whether they actually happen to the scale the NTA would like is another thing, as I suspect they will end up being subjected to many legal challenges where CPOs are involved.

People also need to remember that the infrastructure element is a 10 year project unlike the network redesign, which was being proposed to be delivered without most of the infrastructure works being in place.

The CPO process is pretty legally sound at this stage, so long as the government can demonstrate a need to do it, then it'll go through, and any legal challenge to it will fail pretty quickly.

Legal challenges attacking the process around it may bear more fruit though, such as going after the EIS on it. The same legal tactics were used against the Athenry data centre, and the new runway at Dublin Airport.

cgcsb · 15-10-2018 10:17am

Once an airtight EIS is produced there is little legal recourse against a CPO. This is done all over the country to build motorways, and is noting new.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 11:09am

cgcsb wrote: »

Once an airtight EIS is produced there is little legal recourse against a CPO. This is done all over the country to build motorways, and is noting new.

I certainly don’t share your optimism that this process will happen as smoothly as you seem think.

It’s one thing for the NTA to come up with them, it’s another thing for the various councils to approve them (as they will have to), and there has been anything but smooth progress in that regard.

That’s before you even look at individual legal objections to the plans.

It will be interesting to see if the second draft of the network redesign reflects the reality that, until the infrastructure improvements are in place, connections on radial routes will be virtually impossible to guarantee as journey times will be as variable from one day to the next as they are today. This is particularly relevant where connecting services are planned to be every 30 mins or greater.

Most of your posts on the network design keep referring to the infrastructure improvements as if they’re guaranteed to be in place and simultaneously with the network redesign rollout, which ignores the fact that the infrastructure plan has a 10 year rollout period and most of it is highly unlikely be in place ahead of the network redesign. This is (for me) a critical shortcoming and certainly militates against removing existing direct connections to the city.

The infrastructure element is absolutely critical to delivering an effective bus network, as is to my mind the actual enforcement of the bus priority measures, something that simply isn’t present anywhere right now.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 11:12am

Qrt wrote: »

I'm trying to think of the most difficult corridor planned, Kimmage most likely?

Kimmage, Templeogue and Rathfarnham-Terenure-Rathmines, Old Cabra Road / Manor Street will probably prove the most difficult as they have significant pinch points and potential road closures.

cgcsb · 15-10-2018 11:39am

Many significant pinch points can be removed by next year though. For example on the blanch corridor, a one way Stoneybatter, a car free Old Cabra Rd and Prussia St and a car free North quays can be accomplished with hardly any construction work or CPOs, these changes alone can deliver easily 20 minutes journey time improvement on that corridor while providing a greater degree of reliability.

Putting up flexible pollards around all QBCs at junctions, another small construction job = huge time savings.

One way Rathmines = huge time savings.

This won't provide 100% reliability but it'll be a vast improvement on the current system in the short term.

Qrt · 15-10-2018 11:41am

LXFlyer wrote: »

It’s one thing for the NTA to come up with them, it’s another thing for the various councils to approve them (as they will have to), and there has been anything but smooth progress in that regard.

Are they not going straight to An Bord Pleanála? NTA seem to think so...

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 11:48am

cgcsb wrote: »

Many significant pinch points can be removed by next year though. For example on the blanch corridor, a one way Stoneybatter, a car free Old Cabra Rd and Prussia St and a car free North quays can be accomplished with hardly any construction work or CPOs, these changes alone can deliver easily 20 minutes journey time improvement on that corridor while providing a greater degree of reliability.

Putting up flexible pollards around all QBCs at junctions, another small construction job = huge time savings.

One way Rathmines = huge time savings.

This won't provide 100% reliability but it'll be a vast improvement on the current system in the short term.

You’re still making a massive assumption that those sorts of changes will be in place. Closing roads to traffic in the city centre has proved massively difficult to push through and I think it’s going to be far more difficult to push through on arterial routes outside of the city centre.

Where is there any evidence that the examples that you posted will be place next year?

There isn’t and I think you need to stand back a bit from this.

Until I see hard proposals and frankly physical work actually taking place I certainly would not be anywhere near as confident about them.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 11:54am

Qrt wrote: »

Are they not going straight to An Bord Plean? NTA seem to think so...

That will depend upon the legal basis that they are introduced under.

But are we saying that local government will be bypassed? I’m not sure about that.

cgcsb · 15-10-2018 12:34pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Where is there any evidence that the examples that you posted will be place next year?

There isn’t and I think you need to stand back a bit from this.

Lol. It's a message board pal, not the UN. Chill out.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 1:07pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Lol. It's a message board pal, not the UN. Chill out.

I’m perfectly chilled.

I just think you’re making an awful lot of assumptions that have no basis in reality.

There is absolutely no evidence that any of the things you listed above are going to happen in that short a timeframe.

This matters as a network redesign predicated on interchanges needs the infrastructure in place first - and that’s not what’s happening here.

I make no apologies for being passionate about this - it’s a subject I have a particular interest in and I think that the rollout of the infrastructure is going to be significantly more difficult than you seem to think.

bk · 15-10-2018 2:20pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

There is absolutely no evidence that any of the things you listed above are going to happen in that short a timeframe.

Well some of those things listed have already quietly happened at other locations over the past few years. For instance the recent placement of bollards along the bus lane at Whitehall.

The widening at the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra was a major project and it has gone extremely well and has been a great improvement.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 2:39pm

bk wrote: »

Well some of those things listed have already quietly happened at other locations over the past few years. For instance the recent placement of bollards along the bus lane at Whitehall.

The widening at the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra was a major project and it has gone extremely well and has been a great improvement.

I am not disputing that, but there’s no evidence so far that we are going to see measures introduced such as road closures to general traffic / one way routes in the manner and as quickly as cgsb seems to think they will.

Surely the College Green debacle should tell us that much?

As a bus user it is utterly frustrating to see much of the existing infrastructure just ignored without penalty by private motorists ad nauseum, be they bus lanes, yellow boxes, parked trucks in clearways/cycle lanes. Sitting on a bus on Rosie Hackett Bridge through 6 changes of lights before getting onto Burgh Quay due to the yellow bus being blocked (several times now) tells me that we have a real problem.

Full enforcement of existing measures would be a start. The complete lack of enforcement doesn’t fill me with a lot of confidence that we are going to see any massive improvement in the near future.

Poor design of bus lanes is another issue. Why is the bus lane east of Capel St Bridge operational only on Mon-Sat before suddenly becoming Mon-Sun at the Ha’penny Bridge - where are those cars supposed to go? Utterly appalling.

There are far too many bodies involved for any significant improvements to happen quickly. Instead it’s going to be a battle for each element in my opinion.

cgcsb · 15-10-2018 3:00pm

I'm glad College Green has come up because there's a decision due on Halloween, after much delay. A positive decision, means that The North quays, Parliament St and George's st will all need to have car bans as a result of that decision, separate to Bus Connects. These measures alone will improve journey times.

bk · 15-10-2018 3:01pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Surely the College Green debacle should tell us that much?

Well College Green is a bit different, since it is actually constructing a new structure and thus falls under planning/ABP's remit.

I believe just putting up bollards, redirecting traffic, etc. are considered traffic management measures and thus don't come under planning laws.

For instance, I don't remember the bus gate or the bus only changes on the quays going through planning and ABP.

Of course those can still face opposition and political interference, but they don't seem to face quiet the same planning requirements, legal issues and delays.

LXFlyer wrote: »

As a bus user it is utterly frustrating to see much of the existing infrastructure just ignored without penalty by private motorists ad nauseum, be they bus lanes, yellow boxes, parked trucks in clearways/cycle lanes. Sitting on a bus on Rosie Hackett Bridge through 6 changes of lights before getting onto Burgh Quay due to the yellow bus being blocked (several times now) tells me that we have a real problem.

I agree completely and totally feel your pain.

LXFlyer wrote: »

Full enforcement of existing measures would be a start. The complete lack of enforcement doesn’t fill me with a lot of confidence that we are going to see any massive improvement in the near future.

The lack of enforcement seems to be why planners are moving more towards hard infrastructure changes to force change, rather then rely on just lines on a road and trusting people to follow those rules. That is why they are trying to do College Green, if there is a square there, then people can't simply ignore the bus gate, etc.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 3:53pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm glad College Green has come up because there's a decision due on Halloween, after much delay. A positive decision, means that The North quays, Parliament St and George's st will all need to have car bans as a result of that decision, separate to Bus Connects. These measures alone will improve journey times.

Well given DCC councillors have opposed bi-directional buses on Parliament St, there’s still going to be hurdles to climb on that one.

Where is there any suggestion of a car ban on George’s St in published plans? I’ve not heard any plan for that.

As for the Quays, there’s still a lot of issues with the cycle route, diverted traffic that DCC still haven’t solved.

Sadly I don’t share your certainty that car bans will automatically follow. It might seem logical but that doesn’t mean it will happen.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2018 3:54pm

bk wrote: »

Well College Green is a bit different, since it is actually constructing a new structure and thus falls under planning/ABP's remit.

I believe just putting up bollards, redirecting traffic, etc. are considered traffic management measures and thus don't come under planning laws.

For instance, I don't remember the bus gate or the bus only changes on the quays going through planning and ABP.

Of course those can still face opposition and political interference, but they don't seem to face quiet the same planning requirements, legal issues and delays.

I agree completely and totally feel your pain.

The lack of enforcement seems to be why planners are moving more towards hard infrastructure changes to force change, rather then rely on just lines on a road and trusting people to follow those rules. That is why they are trying to do College Green, if there is a square there, then people can't simply ignore the bus gate, etc.

Re College Green I was referring to the initial decision to route LUAS through it which the EIS stared could be done with minimal impact on bus services.

Also, permanent road closures and diversions require councillor approval which is a real problem.

The point that I am making is that this whole process is much more complicated than some posters seem to think, and I honestly believe that it’s going to take significantly longer to deliver the necessary changes than next year!

riddlinrussell · 17-10-2018 11:36am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/college-green-plans-refused-by-an-bord-pleanála-amid-bus-and-traffic-concerns-1.3666481

Looks like it will be some time before College Green is traffic free then....

LXFlyer · 17-10-2018 12:43pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/college-green-plans-refused-by-an-bord-plean-amid-bus-and-traffic-concerns-1.3666481

Looks like it will be some time before College Green is traffic free then....

A victory for common sense.

The plan was fatally flawed by the removal of Parliament Street as a two way bus street.

blanch152 · 17-10-2018 2:18pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

A victory for common sense.

The plan was fatally flawed by the removal of Parliament Street as a two way bus street.

The judgment seems to be very criticial of public transport planning over decades.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/plans-to-transform-college-green-into-worldrenowned-pedestrian-plaza-refused-37429914.html

“There are clearly opportunities lost over the past 40-50 years,” the report said. “Based on the spread of the city, increases in population, employment and tourism, there is a backlog in investment."

Muahahaha · 22-10-2018 3:17pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

]

Most of your posts on the network design keep referring to the infrastructure improvements as if they’re guaranteed to be in place and simultaneously with the network redesign rollout, which ignores the fact that the infrastructure plan has a 10 year rollout period and most of it is highly unlikely be in place ahead of the network redesign. This is (for me) a critical shortcoming and certainly militates against removing existing direct connections to the city.

Never knew the infrastructure could take up to 10 years to arrive :eek: Though Im in support of BC in general Ive always felt that a network design without the infrastructure in place is putting the cart before the horse. Im guessing the NTA have realised this but figure that we cannot wait for a decade to redesign the network so must proceed with what is already there. Thing is though without the spines being built out with full bus priority & segregation it is hard to see how peoples journey times are going to improve anytime soon. For those who have to change bus at a hub their journey time is likely to get even longer that what it is at present.

CatInABox · 22-10-2018 3:28pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Never knew the infrastructure could take up to 10 years to arrive :eek: Though Im in support of BC in general Ive always felt that a network design without the infrastructure in place is putting the cart before the horse. Im guessing the NTA have realised this but figure that we cannot wait for a decade to redesign the network so must proceed with what is already there. Thing is though without the spines being built out with full bus priority & segregation it is hard to see how peoples journey times are going to improve anytime soon. For those who have to change bus at a hub their journey time is likely to get even longer that what it is at present.

Most likely, the infrastructure will be built in phases, otherwise it'd cause traffic jams on every road in and out of the city. We're likely to see them finish each route one by one, with the Quays being one of the first built.

The only infrastructure that's truly needed beforehand to get the bus reorg right is the hubs. There are currently buses running on almost all of the routes designated for spines already, so it's not like they're suddenly going from no buses to hundreds.

Dublin - BusConnects

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