Dublin - BusConnects

LXFlyer

Well let’s wait and see.

But if these plans deliver a 30 minute improvement in journey times from South Dublin to the city centre, as they claim, I shall eat my hat!

What you’re outlining would require a huge change in Irish culture from a part of the population that hasn’t shown an inclination to change yet, and if I am brutally honest I just don’t see it happening in that part of Dublin.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

Bus Connects proposes running the A buses through Rathmines at a frequency of 1 bus every 3 minutes at peak times in addition to the 14 which will operate every 15 minutes at peak times. This will be kept on time by proposed bus priority measures. That is better than the current frequencies.

No it isn’t better.

FYI The 14 operates every 10 mins in the morning peak now and every 15 minutes during the day.. That’s going to be cut under these plans.

Maybe sit down and analyse the numbers of buses passing through Rathmines and Harold’s Cross since the recent service increases took place in October and early December (which are the only relevant ones - not those set out in the original plan which are completely out of date now), and come back to me with your results.

BusConnects frequencies (as proposed) will not be an improvement on what we now have. Over the course of the day they represent a fairly major cut.

monument

LXFlyer wrote: »

Modal shift onto what?

The radial bus service in the area has already increased in frequency (14, 15, 15b and 16). The buses are pretty much full even allowing for that increase.

The other half of BusConnects (as it stands) proposes cutting that increased frequency especially at the outer ends, which is where most of the traffic comes from. That part I suspect is now dead in the water.

I’m not in any way shape or form convinced that these plans will deliver the results as promised by the NTA. That’s the problem I have with this.

Being honest, I suspect we will end up with watered down results with fairly minimal improvements.

Walking, cycling, buses as more are added gradually or freed up with bus priority etc, and longer trams as them come on stream. Or a mix of these or a mix of these and partly driving.

Some people who want to or have to drive will try other routes and this sometimes displaces them into the other route and people currently driving there into walking, cycling or public transport.

Sometimes people in cars further out will start using the bus or tram, and those will then be fuller closer to the city centre (Ie Rathmines etc) and people not being able to get on the bus will switch to walking and cycling.

Some trips don’t happen — for example, school runs start to become self-travel for teenagers or it will switch from adult working in one place or not working to the adult working in the city centre, and in both cases there will no longer be the drive back home.

This is how modal change happens — it’s a bit messy, it’s often not direct and it’s usually a gradual process.

The 15 has been over subscribed at peak times for at least the last 10 years.

Even during the quietest periods of the recession the buses were frequently full before leaving Knocklyon, and it's a semi-regular occurence for me to be standing despite getting on at the 5th or 6th stop.

Even in Rathgar and Rathmines the bus services are leaving people behind at the stops.

Talking about modal shifts is theoretical bluster when the bus services are already so cramped and uncomfortable that many people would rather a) choose jobs outside the city centre or b) take 70-90minutes crawling in traffic via car.

Lxflyer is correct in this instance, talking about modal shifts is just waffle when discussing routes through templeogue/terenure/rathgar/rathmines/harold's cross.

Ten years ago, the 15 operated every 10 minutes between 07:45 and 08:45. Now, despite being extended to serve an area with several thousand homes catering to young workers, it operates.... every 10 minutes from 07:42 onward - and the 15b just about replaces the capacity of the combined 74 and 74a (although at least the 74 served as a supplementary route to the 15).

But, modal shift *waves magic wand*

monument

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The 15 has been over subscribed at peak times for at least the last 10 years.

Even during the quietest periods of the recession the buses were frequently full before leaving Knocklyon, and it's a semi-regular occurence for me to be standing despite getting on at the 5th or 6th stop.

Even in Rathgar and Rathmines the bus services are leaving people behind at the stops.

Talking about modal shifts is theoretical bluster when the bus services are already so cramped and uncomfortable that many people would rather a) choose jobs outside the city centre or b) take 70-90minutes crawling in traffic via car.

Lxflyer is correct in this instance, talking about modal shifts is just waffle when discussing routes through templeogue/terenure/rathgar/rathmines/harold's cross.

Ten years ago, the 15 operated every 10 minutes between 07:45 and 08:45. Now, despite being extended to serve an area with several thousand homes catering to young workers, it operates.... every 10 minutes from 07:42 onward - and the 15b just about replaces the capacity of the combined 74 and 74a (although at least the 74 served as a supplementary route to the 15).

But, modal shift *waves magic wand*

If modal change is magic, the data shows it works:

The number of car users, which includes an estimate of drivers and passengers combined, has decreased 15,156 people in 10 years and down 27,812 since 1997, according to historic data. At the same time the number of commuters overall across all modes combined has increased from 180,000 in 1997 to nearly 211,500 commuters.

http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/22/rush-hour-car-use-continues-to-decline-in-central-dublin-cycling-walking-bus-use-up/

Stephen15

LXFlyer wrote: »

No it isn’t better.

FYI The 14 operates every 10 mins in the morning peak now and every 15 minutes during the day.. That’s going to be cut under these plans.

Maybe sit down and analyse the numbers of buses passing through Rathmines and Harold’s Cross since the recent service increases took place in October and early December (which are the only relevant ones - not those set out in the original plan which are completely out of date now), and come back to me with your results.

BusConnects frequencies (as proposed) will not be an improvement on what we now have. Over the course of the day they represent a fairly major cut.

The Bus Connects plan was made based on Summer 2018 service levels not Winter 2018/19 service levels which are significantly increased. I would imagine any revised proposals will take this into consideration.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

The Bus Connects plan was made based on Summer 2018 service levels not Winter 2018/19 service levels which are significantly increased. I would imagine any revised proposals will take this into consideration.

Well I shall wait and see. Frankly I don’t share your optimism.

Coming up with a plan for a revised network with detailed frequencies and PVR allocation that ignored planned imminent increases in frequency across the existing network (including an additional route - the 175) doesn’t exactly tell me that one arm of the organisation is talking to the other.

Based on the current somewhat shambolic management of the GAI rollout by the NTA, I am rapidly losing what confidence I had in the organisation to come up with proposals that actually deliver real improvements.

Just to be clear BusConnects reduced capacity over the day on the radial routes even under the old frequencies, and particularly did so at the outer ends of the spines.

We badly need more orbital routes but I don’t think that stripping the vehicles to deliver them from radial routes is the best answer.

monument

monument wrote: »

If modal change is magic, the data shows it works:

I know you're smarter than to believe that because something is true in general, it is always true - so why don't you stop making that logical fallacy?

Car-commuting routes over the canal have been at saturation point for my entire life. I'm not sure why showing that a decrease in maximum throughput due to changes in road design on already saturated routes = people choosing alternative means of transport.

As I said, you're throwing out the phrase "modal shift" but you don't actually have anything substantive behind it.

"Modal shift"

"Modal shift!"

"Modal shift!!!!"

People can't choose to commute via public transport when public transport on specific routes are already saturated, despite you writing "(magical) modal shift!" 17 times per post.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

If modal change is magic, the data shows it works:

The number of car users, which includes an estimate of drivers and passengers combined, has decreased 15,156 people in 10 years and down 27,812 since 1997, according to historic data. At the same time the number of commuters overall across all modes combined has increased from 180,000 in 1997 to nearly 211,500 commuters.

http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/22/rush-hour-car-use-continues-to-decline-in-central-dublin-cycling-walking-bus-use-up/

Perhaps then apply that to the south central area where morning peak bus journey times are now even slower and running times have had to be extended.

I’m being very specific monument in my comments - the Templeogue and Rathfarnham QBCs have the slowest bus speeds in the city and over the last two winters I’ve experienced the worst traffic levels ever. I just don’t see this modal shift. Sure there are more bikes, but over the entire corridors the traffic is worse now than ever.

monument

LXFlyer wrote: »

Perhaps then apply that to the south central area where morning peak bus journey times are now even slower and running times have had to be extended.

I’m being very specific monument in my comments - the Templeogue and Rathfarnham QBCs have the slowest bus speeds in the city and over the last two winters I’ve experienced the worst traffic levels ever. I just don’t see this modal shift. Sure there are more bikes, but over the entire corridors the traffic is worse now than ever.

People say the same thing about the city centre — but the data is there to show that there is modal change.

And as I said sometimes modal share is messy — that includes more people being carried slowing things down or priority measures lagging behind more people using the bus or cycling or walking.

monument

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know you're smarter than to believe that because something is true in general, it is always true - so why don't you stop making that logical fallacy?

Car-commuting routes over the canal have been at saturation point for my entire life. I'm not sure why showing that a decrease in maximum throughput due to changes in road design on already saturated routes = people choosing alternative means of transport.

As I said, you're throwing out the phrase "modal shift" but you don't actually have anything substantive behind it.

"Modal shift"

"Modal shift!"

"Modal shift!!!!"

People can't choose to commute via public transport when public transport on specific routes are already saturated, despite you writing "(magical) modal shift!" 17 times per post.

Your post persumes a few things about modal:

(1) That it happens only to public transport — much of it in recent years has been to cycling and one or two years have showed more walking too.

(2) That it quickly — it’s more often than not incremental: a few bus on route x or y every few years, a longer tram after years or waiting or more people slowing walking and cycling.

(3) That you claiming that I am “throwing out the phrase” devalues modal change when I have data — hard facts and you are the one shouting that there’s no such thing as modal change when it’s a well-proven effect.

(4) I’ve already provide the data, so, I actually, I do have anything substantive behind it.

(5) I’m not sure what part of this you don’t understand: traffic counts and the Cencus shows fewer people driving and more people using sustainable transport?

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

People say the same thing about the city centre — but the data is there to show that there is modal change.

And as I said sometimes modal share is messy — that includes more people being carried slowing things down or priority measures lagging behind more people using the bus or cycling or walking.

That data isn’t for the entire corridor though?

It’s at the canal isn’t it?

Extend back out along the entirety of the 14, 15, 16 routes and I’m not convinced. Mark 1 eyeball tells me otherwise.

As I’ve mentioned before much of the traffic isn’t necessarily going all the way into the city centre acrosss the canals.

monument

LXFlyer wrote: »

That data isn’t for the entire corridor though?

It’s at the canal isn’t it?

Extend back out along the entirety of the 14, 15, 16 routes and I’m not convinced. Mark 1 eyeball tells me otherwise.

Mark 1 eyeball tells loads of people I talk to otherwise inside the canals too and those people are wrong...

But remember the idea of modal change was in the context of the idea of a bus gates and cycle paths in Rathmines and the question of “where would the [car] traffic go”.

The bus gates and cycle paths would push on modal change at a faster pace that’s happening now....

LXFlyer wrote: »

As I’ve mentioned before much of the traffic isn’t necessarily going all the way into the city centre acrosss the canals.

Indeed, that’s why a mixing of bus and cycling mesures is better — bus alone isn’t sutable for many local trips in the way cycling can be (when conditions are improved).

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Mark 1 eyeball tells loads of people I talk to otherwise inside the canals too and those people are wrong...

But remember the idea of modal change was in the context of the idea of a bus gates and cycle paths in Rathmines and the question of “where would the [car] traffic go”.

The bus gates and cycle paths would push on modal change at a faster pace that’s happening now....

Indeed, that’s why a mixing of bus and cycling mesures is better — bus alone isn’t sutable for many local trips in the way cycling can be (when conditions are improved).

Ah now come on - I think you know me better than to imagine things. I tend to watch what's going on around me along the corridors when I'm commuting.

I've 30 years of commuting on and off along those corridors and quite frankly I can honestly say that the traffic along the entire corridors is worse than ever in the past two years.

If you're going to keep telling me that I'm wrong, and coming up with all sorts of other reasons, then there's not much point in continuing this discussion. I know what I see.

Again, I think you're being very optimistic that BusConnects will solve it and lead to massive modal shift - I just don't believe that to be honest unless we get an underground Metro into that area. I've consistently stuck with that belief given the numerous pinch points and the lack of roadspace, along with the fact that much of the corridors have buildings built up to the footpaths.

Closing roads off to general traffic is going to be very difficult to "drive through" politically as there are very few alternative routes that can be used.

Again, the claim from the NTA of (I've just double checked it again and it's more than I mentioned earlier) potentially up to 50 minutes saved off the commuting time as a result of the infrastructure changes is in my view nonsense.

tom1ie

LXFlyer wrote: »

Ah now come on - I think you know me better than to imagine things. I tend to watch what's going on around me along the corridors when I'm commuting.

I've 30 years of commuting on and off along those corridors and quite frankly I can honestly say that the traffic along the entire corridors is worse than ever in the past two years.

If you're going to keep telling me that I'm wrong, and coming up with all sorts of other reasons, then there's not much point in continuing this discussion. I know what I see.

Again, I think you're being very optimistic that BusConnects will solve it and lead to massive modal shift - I just don't believe that to be honest unless we get an underground Metro into that area. I've consistently stuck with that belief given the numerous pinch points and the lack of roadspace, along with the fact that much of the corridors have buildings built up to the footpaths.

Closing roads off to general traffic is going to be very difficult to "drive through" politically as there are very few alternative routes that can be used.

Again, the claim from the NTA of (I've just double checked it again and it's more than I mentioned earlier) potentially up to 50 minutes saved off the commuting time as a result of the infrastructure changes is in my view nonsense.

The only way we will get 50 mins saved off the commuting times is to build an uninterrupted qbc the entire length from the n81 side of terenure village to the City Centre qbc’s on the quays.
We all know that’s not gonna happen.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

Well let’s wait and see.

But if these plans deliver a 30 minute improvement in journey times from South Dublin to the city centre, as they claim, I shall eat my hat!

What you’re outlining would require a huge change in Irish culture from a part of the population that hasn’t shown an inclination to change yet, and if I am brutally honest I just don’t see it happening in that part of Dublin.

What cultural changes are required?

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

What cultural changes are required?

In the quoted post I wasn’t actually replying to you - rather the previous post to yours - I think you nipped in as I was typing.

My point was that there would need to be a sigificant change in culture in that area, an area where there is zero rail infrastructure, to shift large numbers from their private cars to buses.

That’s not happened in this specific part of Dublin and I remain to be convinced that it will.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

In the quoted post I wasn’t actually replying to you - rather the previous post to yours - I think you nipped in as I was typing.

My point was that there would need to be a sigificant change in culture in that area, an area where there is zero rail infrastructure, to shift large numbers from their private cars to buses.

That’s not happened and I remain to be convinced that it will.

It hasn't a huge amount to do with culture, more about utility. If a bus can get you to work 30 minutes faster than your car can and is cost competitive you'll take the bus. If a car and bus journey are the same length of time and your car is a more comfortable way to travel, you'll take the car.

CatInABox

The NTA were in with the Oireachtas Committee on Transport today, so of course the Irish Times has a fair and balanced report out.

NTA says improved bus routes may cost car drivers

tom1ie

CatInABox wrote: »

The NTA were in with the Oireachtas Committee on Transport today, so of course the Irish Times has a fair and balanced report out.

NTA says improved bus routes may cost car drivers

Imagine, inconveniencing single occupancy cars for busses carrying approx 90 people, the horror!

“She also said the NTA has requested 26 additional staff for 2019 and “a similar number” for 2020 to ensure the body has adequate resources to work on BusConnects and Metro North.”

FFS! Metro north?! The standard of journalism is shocking.

Brian CivilEng

If anything private cars are benefiting from Bus Connects. It is road widening after all. In some cases there will be more driving lanes, in others buses are moved out of general traffic lanes. Heck even the likes of the one way system through Santry should make car traffic move quicker without right turning traffic.

Really need to get the message out there that an "empty" bus lane, with one bus every 5mins carries more people than a full car lane with 800 cars an hour though. And that every extra person on the cycle lane is one less car in the driving lane.

LXFlyer

tom1ie wrote: »

Imagine, inconveniencing single occupancy cars for busses carrying approx 90 people, the horror!

“She also said the NTA has requested 26 additional staff for 2019 and “a similar number” for 2020 to ensure the body has adequate resources to work on BusConnects and Metro North.”

FFS! Metro north?! The standard of journalism is shocking.

I would be far more concerned about the substantive point.

It’s quite clear that the NTA don’t have anywhere near enough staff (and in my view enough people with significant operational experience) to manage these changes.

The quality of the management of the roll out of the recent changes in bus services has been shocking, and it is still woeful with crazy gaps in timetables, timetables displayed at stops that are completely out of date, RTPI not working properly, bus stops not physically in place along a new bus route, and a bus company allowed to introduce new schedules which have running times that are 20-30 minutes too tight, resulting in mass cancellations.

This kind of stuff is basic.

That doesn’t bode well for future projects.

cgcsb

Post 1 of 2 on proposed Kimage QBC

cgcsb

Post 2 of 2 on Kimmage CBC

cgcsb

It seems some good bus priority, although strange that a part of Harold's X park wasn't taken to include an outbound bus lane. On the cycling front it seems to be mostly fudge, massive diversions onto 'quiet' streets for cyclists on convoluted routes in order to maintain 2 way car flows. It seems cars just wont be tackled seriously and they are being prioritised over sustainable modes.

I've only included a handful of the key design points just to summarise.

cgcsb

Liffey Valley, Post 1 of 2

cgcsb

Post 2 of 2 on Liffey Valley

cgcsb

Liffey Valley CBC seems to be the best result possible for buses with lots of road space. What's surprising is how cyclists are treated with this one. The mantra is basically cyclists must divert onto painted on cycle lanes on the N4 dual carriageway, would you be able?


Then there's really strange bits like High Street in the City Centre where you have 2 traffic lanes a central median and 2 traffic lanes with ample church grounds on one side, yet cyclists are still expected to cycle through bus stops on a painted on cycle lane. It's like they just gave up on cycling here despite the ample room available to provide cycle lanes that bypass bus stops.


So far it's not looking good for the cyclists

RayCun

cgcsb wrote: »

It seems some good bus priority, although strange that a part of Harold's X park wasn't taken to include an outbound bus lane. On the cycling front it seems to be mostly fudge, massive diversions onto 'quiet' streets for cyclists on convoluted routes in order to maintain 2 way car flows. It seems cars just wont be tackled seriously and they are being prioritised over sustainable modes.

I've only included a handful of the key design points just to summarise.

maps with different orientations make my head hurt

It looks like a bus gate between Kimmage and Harolds Cross park, bikes but no cars?
And a separate bike route from Harolds Cross park to the canal
And a bike route diverting cyclists from Terenure Road West? (which is a horrible road)

cgcsb

RayCun wrote: »

maps with different orientations make my head hurt

It looks like a bus gate between Kimmage and Harolds Cross park, bikes but no cars?
And a separate bike route from Harolds Cross park to the canal
And a bike route diverting cyclists from Terenure Road West? (which is a horrible road)

That's pretty much it yes. The snips are best I could do. The official docs will be out in about 6 weeks.

LeinsterDub

cgcsb wrote: »

Liffey Valley GBC seems to be the best result possible for buses with lots of road space. What's surprising is how cyclists are treated with this one. The mantra is basically cyclists must divert onto painted on cycle lanes on the N4 dual carriageway, would you be able?


Then there's really strange bits like High Street in the City Centre where you have 2 traffic lanes a central median and 2 traffic lanes with amble church grounds on one side, yet cyclists are still expected to cycle through bus stops on a painted on cycle lane. It's like they just gave up on cycling here despite the ample room available to provide cycle lanes that bypass bus stops.


So far it's not looking good for the cyclists

I made this point repeatedly in this thread and was basically told a polished turd is better than nothing.

cgcsb

Quite disappointing really, inbound car traffic should be sent on detours, not bikes. I can't help but think this will negatively affect cycling modal share. We'll be removing on street cycle lanes, no matter how bad, and sending bikes on 2-3km detours to maintain car traffic as is.

LeinsterDub

cgcsb wrote: »

Quite disappointing really, inbound car traffic should be sent on detours, not bikes. I can't help but think this will negatively affect cycling modal share. We'll be removing on street cycle lanes, no matter how bad, and sending bikes on 2-3km detours to maintain car traffic as is.

Are they actually proposing banning cyclist from here ? Because if they are it's outrageous and if they aren't it make the entire thing pointless

cgcsb

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Are they actually proposing banning cyclist from here ? Because if they are it's outrageous and if they aren't it make the entire thing pointless

Not banning cyclists but the existing cycle lanes, however bad, will be gone and moved to convoluted detours.

LeinsterDub

cgcsb wrote: »

Not banning cyclists but the existing cycle lanes, however bad, will be gone and moved to convoluted detours.

So cyclist will continue to "block" buses or have to compete with regular. 200 k of high quality infrastructure indeed

marno21

There was a 2 hour meeting of the Oireachtas Transport Committee yesterday with the NTA relating to the BusConnects Core Corridors. From watching it, the following seem to be the main points:

1. The consultations so far have been on concepts for the proposals. They are not the final design, and are out to public consultation so that people who have concerns can outline their concerns and make alternative proposals. From my reading of what's going on, there's far too much dog whistling going on that people are having their buses taken away from them/having their gardens taken from them/cyclists being discommoded as if this was a done deal, however this is only a public consultation, and people need to make their views known to the NTA in a submission rather than all the booing and moaning.

2. The NTA are under-resourced and the amount of projects ongoing is causing these delays, and from what I can see, all the side campaigns by opposition politicans ratcheting up fear in people by spreading misinformation is simply delaying these projects out of sheer volume of submissions after public consultation. In reality, the NTA need to be resourced to match the vast increase in projects since the Metrolink/BusConnects/DART Expansion/Galway BusConnects/Cork BusConnects etc started.

cgcsb

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So cyclist will continue to "block" buses or have to compete with regular. 200 k of high quality infrastructure indeed

Basically, at least on the Rathmines section, most of the kimmage route and from Inchicore to the City Centre.

In the later case I would have expect the cycle route to use Inchicore Road's existing 2 way cycleway and the grounds of the modern art museum and Dr Steven's hospital. But no such luck. Cycling has been abandoned by the plan and buses can still only go as fast as the slowest cyclist.

In the case of Rathmines, I see the only proper solution as being a one way for cars, a double bike lane and build a new road for cars on the convoluted detour proposed for cyclists.

LeinsterDub

marno21 wrote: »

1. The consultations so far have been on concepts for the proposals. They are not the final design, and are out to public consultation so that people who have concerns can outline their concerns and make alternative proposals. From my reading of what's going on, there's far too much dog whistling going on that people are having their buses taken away from them/having their gardens taken from them/cyclists being discommoded as if this was a done deal, however this is only a public consultation, and people need to make their views known to the NTA in a submission rather than all the booing and moaning.

And their concepts regarding cycling have been so poor as to raise serious alarm bells . This isn't a case of cyclist being dog whistling nimbys. "I want my bus" "I want my foot of garden.

This is a case of "I don't want to be killed cycling to work" "I want to decarbonise our economy". People are well aware this is pre-consultation and they are making it known that what they plan to hold a public consultation on is unacceptable.

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And their concepts regarding cycling have been so poor as to raise serious alarm bells . This isn't a case of cyclist being dog whistling nimbys. "I want my bus" "I want my foot of garden.

This is a case of "I don't want to be killed cycling to work" "I want to decarbonise our economy". People are well aware this is pre-consultation and they are making it known that what the plan to hold a public consultation on is unacceptable.

I didn't say it was, but they made it crystal clear yesterday that these were only the NTA's concept designs. If people think they are wrong, or there are better ideas, send them into the NTA at the first opportunity and they will be taken into account.

And I should have split up my comment there which I will apologise for, most of the fearmongering, if not all of the fearmongering, has been more to do with buses and routes.

cgcsb

The first routes Malahide, Blanch, Swords and Lucan seem to do both bus cycling priority fairly well. Early indications are that for the south west of the City, cycling seems to have been completely fudged in favour of cars. Very disappointing, I'll be making a lengthy submission in January, I'd advise others to do likewise.

LeinsterDub

marno21 wrote: »

I didn't say it was, but they made it crystal clear yesterday that these were only the NTA's concept designs. If people think they are wrong, or there are better ideas, send them into the NTA at the first opportunity and they will be taken into account.

And I should have split up my comment there which I will apologise for, most of the fearmongering, if not all of the fearmongering, has been more to do with buses and routes.

Yes but there are national and international standard for this kind of thing which the NTA has allegedly ignored if they aren't following best practice whats the point?

Qrt

Christ on a bike (!) the cycling provision for the Liffey Valley route is shocking. Any reason why there’s so much parking at Inchicore college??? It’s a third level institute, people don’t get dropped off by their parents like.

jd

The NTA are looking at an alternative for Santry that would maintain two way access for cars. This would necessitate a land take from properties in Santry between the Omni and Shantalla Bridge, 1 to 2 meters in most cases.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/alternative-busconnects-plan-could-affect-further-80-homes-1.3752831

CatInABox

jd wrote: »

The NTA are looking at an alternative for Santry that would maintain two way access for cars. This would necessitate a land take from properties in Santry between the Omni and Shantalla Bridge, 1 to 2 meters in most cases.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/alternative-busconnects-plan-could-affect-further-80-homes-1.3752831

I love how Noel Rock is now complaining that the people most affected by the change weren't in the room. Was attendance meant to be compulsory or something?

I predicted on here that if they couldn't do a one way system, then they'd move to a CPO of the gardens, so what did he expect really? I mean, it sounds as if he's trying anything to escape the blame for getting those gardens CPO'd.

jd

Those at the forum were asked not to comment on social media/to national media until the NTA had a chance to contact affected property owners directly.
Didn't stop at least one local pol from posting from the meeting
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2794571663902520/

cgcsb

Noel Rock wanted this, no? he seemed to comment negatively on the one way system, unless he had another alternative in mind?

loyatemu

cgcsb wrote: »

Noel Rock wanted this, no? he seemed to comment negatively on the one way system, unless he had another alternative in mind?

didn't he want to build a tunnel?

jd

loyatemu wrote: »

didn't he want to build a tunnel?

No, that was a local resident at one of his meeting, maybe 3 or 4 years ago.

LeinsterDub

jd wrote: »

No, that was a local resident at one of his meeting, maybe 3 or 4 years ago.

Bus Connects hasn't been a thing for 3 or 4 years. It was a few months ago

jd

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Bus Connects hasn't been a thing for 3 or 4 years. It was a few months ago

It was a meeting I was at where a number of options were discussed regarding transport options for North Dublin/Fingal. It was in the context of one option to have the BRT turning at Coolock Lane and running down the Santry By-pass. This would have left Santry with a much reduced bus service, and one resident opined the BRT should run through Santry, with a tunnel from the Omni down to Whitehall Church.