Glastonbury 2019

Chelon · 08-10-2018 1:59pm

S.M.B. wrote: »

And I believe the group system works because I find when someone can get in and buy 6 tickets it is often very easy for them to go in and buy again and again.

Is this for real? I am reading multiple accounts of people saying "I got 15/20/30 tickets for my group" - if so then that is a bit sh1t for the rest of us...not their fault but whatever allows this to happen at Seetickets backend...

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 2:01pm

robinph wrote: »

It is a massive stretch to claim those numbers. You have to discount anyone under the age of 12, who doesn't need a ticket and isn't counted in the attendance numbers, take out another massive chunk of the population under 18 who whilst they want to go don't have the buying power to do so, then take out people over the age of 50 who whilst they do go in much bigger numbers to Glastonbury there is nothing like any statistically significant %'age of their population going. Then you are probably left with a population of about 25 million who could go if they were interested and that is where that 1 million number of people has to come out of.

Glastonbury is far more accessible to my peer group of local friends and acquaintances than most other parts of the country, and if you go to Glastonbury then you are far more likely to know other people who go to Glastonbury, but it's still not close to 1 in 25 of the people I know of who would have been trying.

Where did that 4% of the population trying for tickets to Knebworth come from? I don't recall that being a question on the census. So the only place that number is pulled from is 4 million IP addresses hitting their server at once, so again means less than nothing when trying to relate that to the actual population.

Oasis - BBC source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/2868f61d-ea81-46b4-8c19-9fc4974ec359

Glasto - 2 million registered and you're suggesting that less than one in four of them tried yesterday? Is it really a stretch to say that one in 72/1.4% of the population tried yesterday, one third of the number that applied for Oasis at Knebworth?

Btw the festival registrees are across all ages, and particualrly don't discount the over 50s of which I am one and more than half of those I know registered are in the same age bracket.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 08-10-2018 2:14pm

Chelon wrote: »

Is this for real? I am reading multiple accounts of people saying "I got 15/20/30 tickets for my group" - if so then that is a bit sh1t for the rest of us...not their fault but whatever allows this to happen at Seetickets backend...

It's awfully strange given that other poor sods got to the payment page and hit confirm and then the server kicked them out.

TheIrishGrover · 08-10-2018 2:24pm

Oasis? That rumour has being going around for 10 years.

As for a lottery system? It's possible. But then you'll have, instead of 2 million registers, you'll have 20 million as everyone and their dog will create one and just submit and forget about it. Then you'll have a situation where 50% of those picked out will simply not claim their right to buy tickets. Then you have to do it again and again.

How would a Lottery system benefit these abandoned/mistreated/dismissed loyal fans? Would you suggest that the first batch of tickets goes 100% to people who registered previously but didn't get tickets?

How would one differentiate people who genuinely tried their hardest/organised groups to try/prepared and tried every avenue from people who register and couldn't be ar5ed even trying? Would it be fair if they got a ticket instead of someone who was trying so hard for years with no luck?

Long and short of it that more people want to go than there are tickets so some will be left out. That's just life!

Chelon · 08-10-2018 2:27pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

It's awfully strange given that other poor sods got to the payment page and hit confirm and then the server kicked them out.

That is dreadful, probably worse than not getting that far at all. But I suspect the whole thing is truly pot luck, therefore some will end up with none and a few others will get multiple goes coming their way.

The Nal · 08-10-2018 2:29pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

It's awfully strange given that other poor sods got to the payment page and hit confirm and then the server kicked them out.

Its happened to me on a few occasions. Even this year I was shocked I got to page 2 after putting in the regs and more shocked the payment went through first time.

Theres been huge improvements in recent years in that regard.

Theres no other way of selling tickets. Its the fairest system there is. I can't think of another regular event thats oversubscribed x 10.

Alkers · 08-10-2018 2:30pm

Chelon wrote: »

Is this for real? I am reading multiple accounts of people saying "I got 15/20/30 tickets for my group" - if so then that is a bit sh1t for the rest of us...not their fault but whatever allows this to happen at Seetickets backend...

It's strange but it's not really **** since (in our case at least) the people who got tickets bought for them were themselves trying equally to buy the tickets at the same time.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 2:37pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Oasis? That rumour has being going around for 10 years.

As for a lottery system? It's possible. But then you'll have, instead of 2 million registers, you'll have 20 million as everyone and their dog will create one and just submit and forget about it. Then you'll have a situation where 50% of those picked out will simply not claim their right to buy tickets. Then you have to do it again and again.

How would a Lottery system benefit these abandoned/mistreated/dismissed loyal fans? Would you suggest that the first batch of tickets goes 100% to people who registered previously but didn't get tickets?

How would one differentiate people who genuinely tried their hardest/organised groups to try/prepared and tried every avenue from people who register and couldn't be ar5ed even trying? Would it be fair if they got a ticket instead of someone who was trying so hard for years with no luck?

Long and short of it that more people want to go than there are tickets so some will be left out. That's just life!

Oasis - no rumour. It was in 1996 when there wasn't mass internet and computer access so applications had to be made by post. You provided your name, address, postcode and got two tickets if successful. 2.5 million applied.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/2868f61d-ea81-46b4-8c19-9fc4974ec359

robinph · 08-10-2018 2:42pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Oasis - BBC source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/2868f61d-ea81-46b4-8c19-9fc4974ec359

Considering that was in the pre-history of the web I guess it's possible that they may have had a paper trail of people applying on paper for it. No idea how the tickets were sold though. Was it sending in a paper form from your copy of Smash Hits, or you had to phone them up? Either of those methods though would provide a much more reliable "population who tried" statistic than anything in the internet age and that number is maybe slightly less prone to exaggeration.

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Glasto - 2 million registered and you're suggesting that less than one in four of them tried yesterday? Is it really a stretch to say that one in 72/1.4% of the population tried yesterday, one third of the number that applied for Oasis at Knebworth?

Btw the festival registrees are across all ages, and particualrly don't discount the over 50s of which I am one and more than half of those I know registered are in the same age bracket.

1 million people trying yesterday isn't a third of 2.5 million.

Certainly not discounting the over 50's who make up a large number of Glastonbury goers, there is not a large number of the over 50's population going to Glastonbury though. That you know people who go to Glastonbury proves nothing regarding the population at large. If we were doing things like that then 100% of the population goes to Glastonbury every year for the last 25 years and from the age of 3 weeks old because that's what my family does.

Just because everyone you know did X doesn't mean that everyone does X.

For every post I've seen online saying that a group of 30 didn't get any tickets there is another post from someone saying that their group of 30 did. It all seems fairly even to me, and I'm saying that as someone who is without a ticket for only the second time at this point in the process in 25 years.

robinph · 08-10-2018 2:49pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Oasis - no rumour. It was in 1996 when there wasn't mass internet and computer access so applications had to be made by post. You provided your name, address, postcode and got two tickets if successful. 2.5 million applied.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/2868f61d-ea81-46b4-8c19-9fc4974ec359

I assume that nobody was daft enough to only apply once for two tickets and the vast majority of people sent in two, one in their name and one in their mates name, so you can slash that 2.5 million number nearly in half straight away.

There will have been some people too tight to pay for two stamps no doubt, but anyone with even half a brain should have been applying twice at least.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 2:57pm

robinph wrote: »

Considering that was in the pre-history of the web I guess it's possible that they may have had a paper trail of people applying on paper for it. No idea how the tickets were sold though. Was it sending in a paper form from your copy of Smash Hits, or you had to phone them up? Either of those methods though would provide a much more reliable "population who tried" statistic than anything in the internet age and that number is maybe slightly less prone to exaggeration.

1 million people trying yesterday isn't a third of 2.5 million.

Certainly not discounting the over 50's who make up a large number of Glastonbury goers, there is not a large number of the over 50's population going to Glastonbury though. That you know people who go to Glastonbury proves nothing regarding the population at large. If we were doing things like that then 100% of the population goes to Glastonbury every year for the last 25 years and from the age of 3 weeks old because that's what my family does.

Just because everyone you know did X doesn't mean that everyone does X.

For every post I've seen online saying that a group of 30 didn't get any tickets there is another post from someone saying that their group of 30 did. It all seems fairly even to me, and I'm saying that as someone who is without a ticket for only the second time at this point in the process in 25 years.

Oasis - applications by post.

Glasto - 0ver 50s - you discounted the amount going as being a significant amount and when counting the people applying said the over 50s were not a significant amount (You tried to narrow the applicants down to 1 in 25 by removing certain age groups when 1 in 72 is all it would take for a million people to be trying yesterday).
According to survey company Stastisa in 2016 the over 50 age group accounted for 14% of festival-goers in the UK. And we cannot assume that if Glasto had 14% also then all of those over-50s weren't successful so how many failed? Your figures must include all age groups and thus 1 in 72 trying yesterday is I believe realistic.

More than 4% of the population applied for Oasis. 1.4% applying yesterday would be roughly one third of that. Population numbers have changed in 22 years so percentages are more accurate when comparing 1996 to 2018.

S.M.B. · 08-10-2018 3:01pm

Chelon wrote: »

Is this for real? I am reading multiple accounts of people saying "I got 15/20/30 tickets for my group" - if so then that is a bit sh1t for the rest of us...not their fault but whatever allows this to happen at Seetickets backend...

Maybe it's not true and someone who manages to book tickets obviously has the optimal conditions to get through and this would make them more likely to get in a second time but from my experience there's more to it than that. It may be just a by-product of how a server/application treats an IP that has successfully go through. Someone with more expertise than me might be able to clarify.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 3:08pm

robinph wrote: »

I assume that nobody was daft enough to only apply once for two tickets and the vast majority of people sent in two, one in their name and one in their mates name, so you can slash that 2.5 million number nearly in half straight away.

There will have been some people too tight to pay for two stamps no doubt, but anyone with even half a brain should have been applying twice at least.

I'd say you're spot on there. 2.6 million applications officially, and it added to 4.45% of the population at the time. However much we cuts the numbers it's still astonishing.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 3:11pm

S.M.B. wrote: »

Maybe it's not true and someone who manages to book tickets obviously has the optimal conditions to get through and this would make them more likely to get in a second time but from my experience there's more to it than that. It may be just a by-product of how a server/application treats an IP that has successfully go through. Someone with more expertise than me might be able to clarify.

Server location, broadband speed, loads of variables but mainly luck I'd say. I'm similarly ignorant about the process but in 2013 I managed to book a few tickets then go back in again for pals. Hasn't happened since but I hope it will again.

robinph · 08-10-2018 3:24pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Oasis - applications by post.

Glasto - 0ver 50s - you discounted the amount going as being a significant amount and when counting the people applying said the over 50s were not a significant amount (You tried to narrow the applicants down to 1 in 25 by removing certain age groups when 1 in 72 is all it would take for a million people to be trying yesterday).
According to survey company Stastisa in 2016 the over 50 age group accounted for 14% of festival-goers in the UK. And we cannot assume that if Glasto had 14% also then all of those over-50s weren't successful so how many failed? Your figures must include all age groups and thus 1 in 72 trying yesterday is I believe realistic.

More than 4% of the population applied for Oasis. 1.4% applying yesterday would be roughly one third of that. Population numbers have changed in 22 years so percentages are more accurate when comparing 1996 to 2018.

Define festival. That could be a beer festival, a book festival, an art festival or anything.

I didn't discount them as not going, I discounted them as of that part of the population a significantly smaller %'age will be going to Glastonbury than in the 18-30 age group. If you've been and hung out anywhere other than the Acoustic Tent then this is quite obvious. I also discounted millions of the population who don't need a ticket (under 12's) and those who don't have any money to buy a ticket or to go without someone elses permission or credit card (under 18's).

You've got to ignore the fact that you know lots of people who go, and remember that the festival organisers have absolutely no way to know how many people were trying yesterday and that their database of registrations (the nearest thing to a meaningful number they have) is a very unreliable measure. They literally just plucked a number out of the air which they thought sounded good.

TheIrishGrover · 08-10-2018 3:25pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Oasis - no rumour. It was in 1996 when there wasn't mass internet and computer access so applications had to be made by post. You provided your name, address, postcode and got two tickets if successful. 2.5 million applied.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/2868f61d-ea81-46b4-8c19-9fc4974ec359

Sorry, I thought you were saying that Oasis were tipped for 2018.

MadYaker · 08-10-2018 4:04pm

I dunno. I wouldn’t like a truly random system like a lottery or whatever. At the moment the system rewards those who are persistent and organized and I think that’s good. That said if you make it onto the booking page and input all your details in a timely fashion you should get your tickets.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 08-10-2018 4:46pm

MadYaker wrote: »

I dunno. I wouldn’t like a truly random system like a lottery or whatever. At the moment the system rewards those who are persistent and organized and I think that’s good. That said if you make it onto the booking page and input all your details in a timely fashion you should get your tickets.

What about those who hit a dead server no matter what devices and accounts they are using?

A lottery system would be extremely fair - sell in batches with 24 hours to buy and if no response then it go back in the pot for a further sale and your registration cancelled.

That would avoid the nonsense witnessed yesterday morning.

Zardoz · 08-10-2018 6:06pm

ghostdancer wrote: »

no, everyone has the same chance with the current system.

No ,they actually dont .
The See Tickets website load system can be exploited .

Mince Pie · 08-10-2018 6:18pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

MadYaker wrote: »

I dunno. I wouldn’t like a truly random system like a lottery or whatever. At the moment the system rewards those who are persistent and organized and I think that’s good. That said if you make it onto the booking page and input all your details in a timely fashion you should get your tickets.

What about those who hit a dead server no matter what devices and accounts they are using?

A lottery system would be extremely fair - sell in batches with 24 hours to buy and if no response then it go back in the pot for a further sale and your registration cancelled.

That would avoid the nonsense witnessed yesterday morning.

Explain to me how that is fairer to you? It essentially puts someone at the front of the queue to decide if they want to go or not. The current system is fair, everyone has to try at the same time. If you had gotten a ticket you wouldn't have a problem.
I haven't gotten past the holding page for years but I team up with others to spread my chances. It takes organisation. That gives me better odds cos we're more organised and plan it more than someone getting up and having a go. Some people get the page, some don't.

The Nal · 08-10-2018 6:28pm

Mince Pie wrote: »

Some people get the page, some don't.

Which is a lottery in itself so the fairest system.

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What about those who hit a dead server no matter what devices and accounts they are using?

A lottery system would be extremely fair - sell in batches with 24 hours to buy and if no response then it go back in the pot for a further sale and your registration cancelled.

That would avoid the nonsense witnessed yesterday morning.

All costs lots of money which would mean more expensive tickets or less money for the charities.

Mince Pie · 08-10-2018 6:35pm

The Nal wrote: »

Mince Pie wrote: »

Some people get the page, some don't.

Which is a lottery in itself so the fairest system.

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What about those who hit a dead server no matter what devices and accounts they are using?

A lottery system would be extremely fair - sell in batches with 24 hours to buy and if no response then it go back in the pot for a further sale and your registration cancelled.

That would avoid the nonsense witnessed yesterday morning.

All costs lots of money which would mean more expensive tickets or less money for the charities.

Exactly but everyone gets the same shot rather than someone getting first choice who probably had no intention of going anyway. The system isn't perfect but it is as fair as it can be.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 6:37pm

robinph wrote: »

Define festival. That could be a beer festival, a book festival, an art festival or anything.

I didn't discount them as not going, I discounted them as of that part of the population a significantly smaller %'age will be going to Glastonbury than in the 18-30 age group. If you've been and hung out anywhere other than the Acoustic Tent then this is quite obvious. I also discounted millions of the population who don't need a ticket (under 12's) and those who don't have any money to buy a ticket or to go without someone elses permission or credit card (under 18's).

You've got to ignore the fact that you know lots of people who go, and remember that the festival organisers have absolutely no way to know how many people were trying yesterday and that their database of registrations (the nearest thing to a meaningful number they have) is a very unreliable measure. They literally just plucked a number out of the air which they thought sounded good.

Given we're on a Glasto thread I naively assumed you'd realise it was referring to music festivals as opposed to origami ones. Stats here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/282833/age-distribution-of-visitors-to-music-festivals-in-the-unite-kingdom-uk/

The figures for the Knebworth applications were 4.45% of the entire UK population, not excluding kids or pensioners. My conjecture that circa 1.4% of the population was trying yesterday also doesn't exclude those over 50 nor those under 18 who are registered. It's not relevant what age the people I know are, nor that I'd obviously know many people interested in going. And are you stating that the official Glasto registration figure of 2 million is plucked out of the air?

I'm suggesting that it's not unreasonable that 1 in 72 people in the country tried to get tickets yesterday & Thursday. Roughly a million people trying to get 150,000 for the most popular festival in Europe - is that really so hard to fathom?

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 6:42pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What about those who hit a dead server no matter what devices and accounts they are using?

A lottery system would be extremely fair - sell in batches with 24 hours to buy and if no response then it go back in the pot for a further sale and your registration cancelled.

That would avoid the nonsense witnessed yesterday morning.

I again disagree that it was nonsense yesterday. Those of us who didn't get tickets are just unlucky.

But in terms of a lottery I think that's truly an option. To prevent it being messy they could ask all interested registered people to put down a deposit of £50 the week before the draw and then afterwards return the deposit to those who were unsuccessful.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 08-10-2018 6:43pm

Mince Pie wrote: »

Explain to me how that is fairer to you? It essentially puts someone at the front of the queue to decide if they want to go or not. The current system is fair, everyone has to try at the same time. If you had gotten a ticket you wouldn't have a problem.
I haven't gotten past the holding page for years but I team up with others to spread my chances. It takes organisation. That gives me better odds cos we're more organised and plan it more than someone getting up and having a go. Some people get the page, some don't.

Clear out dormant registrations then by making it an annual renewal and close to the purchase date. You'll then get an accurate and fair picture of who genuinely wants to go.

Mince Pie · 08-10-2018 6:44pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What about those who hit a dead server no matter what devices and accounts they are using?

A lottery system would be extremely fair - sell in batches with 24 hours to buy and if no response then it go back in the pot for a further sale and your registration cancelled.

That would avoid the nonsense witnessed yesterday morning.

I again disagree that it was nonsense yesterday. Those of us who didn't get tickets are just unlucky.

But in terms of a lottery I think that's truly an option. To prevent it being messy they could ask all interested registered people to put down a deposit of £50 the week before the draw and then afterwards return the deposit to those who were unsuccessful.

How is that different to the current system except its less hassle in its current format.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 6:45pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Sorry, I thought you were saying that Oasis were tipped for 2018.

No, but they must be a runner for 2020. The return of the Gallaghers and Fleetwood Mac would make an impressive couple of headliners.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 08-10-2018 6:51pm

Mince Pie wrote: »

How is that different to the current system except its less hassle in its current format.

It doesn't pit potential purchasers against each other at the mercy of See Tickets dodgy servers and who has the best bandwidth, number of devices etc to get round the vagaries of the site.

Being left in a holding pattern I dont have a problem with and if I'm out of luck in the queue then fine but not being able to access the site at all, and then others about to hit the pay button being crashed out is inequitable.

Mince Pie · 08-10-2018 6:54pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Mince Pie wrote: »

How is that different to the current system except its less hassle in its current format.

It doesn't pit potential purchasers against each other at the mercy of See Tickets dodgy servers and who has the best bandwidth, number of devices etc to get round the vagaries of the site.

Being left in a holding pattern I dont have a problem with and if I'm out of luck in the queue then fine but not being able to access the site at all, and then others about to hit the pay button being crashed out is inequitable.

Its total luck. A friend of mine got his ticket while he was in a field fishing. Others have multiple devices, some get them on dodgy 3g at an airport. There are so many stories. Everyone has a shot. You weren't one of the lucky ones. Lots of people have the same disappointment.

Seathrun66 · 08-10-2018 6:56pm

Mince Pie wrote: »

How is that different to the current system except its less hassle in its current format.

I'm not advocating for one of the other. However, were they to run a lottery then it's less prejudicial to those with slower computers/bad servers/in an area with poor broadband. Say 800,000 apply, computer picks out 150,000 (or 75,000 to allow people to take along a registered pal). Arguably makes it more democratic.

Glastonbury 2019

Comments