Looking forward to budget.

Emme · 02-10-2018 2:54pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

This isn't remotely true - TD's pay is no longer decided by the house (mostly thanks to the sort of sh1tehawkery that went on in Berties day) - their increase is linked to civil service rates now so any increase is directly in line.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1020/825582-fempi-payments/

http://www.thejournal.ie/td-salary-increase-3023376-Oct2016/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tds-enjoy-pay-increase-of-935-before-budget-37375171.html

Dude89 · 02-10-2018 2:54pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

I'm not talking about them, I said that we should adopt the same welfare payments that they get when on asylum. After all if he's good enough for many who want to better themselves with education/work, then it should be good enough for those who have no interest in contributing to society. You would soon be finding a job if you knew your SW was going to be cut to €21.60 a week.

There's plenty of non EU migrants on welfare in this country and in tax payer funded housing. 21.60 a week is a pipe dream lol. People in direct provision get their every need catered for. So the comparison doesn't make sense.

For Forks Sake · 02-10-2018 2:56pm

Emme wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tds-enjoy-pay-increase-of-935-before-budget-37375171.html

Second line in the article:

Deputies received a 1pc pay rise, which kicked in from yesterday under the current public sector pay deal.

Sixth line in the article:

TDs' wages are pegged at the fifth incremental point on the salary scale of a principal officer in the civil service, so they go up when those workers get a rise.

and fifth line in the article:

However, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and his ministers have already waived the increases following a previous outcry - leaving their pay at 2013 rates.

Now put the pitchfork away.

Emme · 02-10-2018 3:09pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Second line in the article:

Sixth line in the article:

and fifth line in the article:

Are you a TD?

Ace2007 · 02-10-2018 3:12pm

Dude89 wrote: »

There's plenty of non EU migrants on welfare in this country and in tax payer funded housing. 21.60 a week is a pipe dream lol. People in direct provision get their every need catered for. So the comparison doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense?
I guarantee you that the majority of people in Ireland would not like to live in the conditions of an Asylum person.

We shouldn't have a system that allows someone to be on the dole for an infinite amount of time, without any incentive to get off of it. How many packs of cigarettes etc could they buy with €21.60. They wouldn't have the income to spend money on what they want, which in turn should lead to them realizing this and getting a job before the reach that tier.

For Forks Sake · 02-10-2018 3:13pm

Emme wrote: »

Are you a TD?

No.

Nor am I a senator, county councilor nor a civil servant.

I do however have a very low tolerance for hyperbole and "fake news".

Ace2007 · 02-10-2018 3:16pm

Emme wrote: »

Are you a TD?

For Forks Sake wrote: »

No. Nor am I a senator, county councilor nor a civil servant.

wouldn't make a difference if (s)he was or not, the fact still remains, the TD's didn't give themselves a pay rise - it's part of the pay restorations, which you clearly don't understand or don't want to.

Emme · 02-10-2018 3:18pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

wouldn't make a difference if (s)he was or not, the fact still remains, the TD's didn't give themselves a pay rise - it's part of the pay restorations, which you clearly don't understand or don't want to.

OK then. It seems that some pay restorations are more equal than others.

noodler · 02-10-2018 3:19pm

Emme wrote: »

Are you a TD?

Too much fact for you, was it?

Ace2007 · 02-10-2018 3:31pm

Emme wrote: »

OK then. It seems that some pay restorations are more equal than others.

What does that even mean?

runawaybishop · 02-10-2018 3:33pm

Emme wrote: »

OK then. It seems that some pay restorations are more equal than others.

That's how percentages work.

lawred2 · 02-10-2018 3:35pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

I take it you've never been to a third world country - been a little bit more than dramatic with that comment.

Luas is run by a private operator last time I checked so they can pay whatever they wanted. Problem is thought they serve the public and can strike their way to more money and don't give a sh!t who they annoy. The majority of people who serve the public could do the same, except the majority won't play the nuclear card cause they think of others.

I think that's been categorically disproven

topper75 · 02-10-2018 3:50pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

It’s hilarious, during the last boom, they had billions to throw everywhere each budget. Now because of massive budget demands from most departments, the minuscule tax decreases and even welfare hikes, though im against them , wouldn’t even cover inflation!

Budget 2018 a worker on e30k received a e1.50 a week usc cut, while welfare wasters received a e5 week! Expect more of the same in budget 2019! Varadkar doing what he does best , ie lying!

No he wasn't lying - how dare you - he was just on about those who get out of bed early to sign on. Shame on you if you misinterpreted.

02-10-2018 4:03pm

How about instead of getting our fiver we all get to nominate where the fiver we are forgoing goes, could be anything the local GAA club, roadworks, social housing, specific education or health initiatives and so on.

Nobody is going to miss a fiver and we would all get some sense of control over when a tiny bit of our money goes.

The Tetrarch · 02-10-2018 4:09pm

In last week's The Irish Field (horse industry publication) we had the usual article asking for an increase in tax on betting, with vague references to online gambling and helping problem gamblers.
Besides telling the government to tax their customers, they also want the government to give the proceeds to the horse industry.
I assume all betting taxes on soccer, GAA, horseracing, other sports should go to the horse industry, because, like, employment and stuff.

MightyMunster · 02-10-2018 5:13pm

SteM wrote: »

Can someone explain this line to me please?

What does 'and demographics' mean in this context?

More old people (pensions, medical card, travel pass, fuel allowance), more young people (schools, children's allowance, GP cards), more babies (maternity payments, less tax take) etc.....

Specialun · 02-10-2018 5:42pm

public sector getting a huge chunk as per..while productivity decreases.

Fann Linn · 02-10-2018 5:45pm

Specialun wrote: »

public sector getting a huge chunk as per..while productivity decreases.

Productivity has actually increased. I can't go on the sick as often as I used to.

02-10-2018 5:51pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

We have defence forces personnel amongst others, paid a pittance. Nurses and doctors rightfully leaving the country in droves. Working people. Low income earners over e34k losing half their salary over that amount, insane anti worker, anti enterprise rates. Rubbish infrastructure, massive national debt. I think it’s fair to ask why the over the top world class welfare rates should be hiked one F*cking red cent , given the state of affairs here !

Yeah good point, we should get rid of the defense forces

Yer Da sells Avon · 02-10-2018 5:51pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

You would soon be finding a job if you knew your SW was going to be cut to €21.60 a week.

Thankfully, that'll never happen. I was on jobseekers benefit for a few months this year and it was difficult enough to get by on €198 a week. The figures are currently being massaged to suggest that we have full employment (people on 'activation schemes' like the disastrously wasteful and unhelpful 'Jobpath' are removed from the live register, despite still being unemployed), but the truth is that it can take time to actually find a job. I got lucky after months of searching, but Jesus, the whole process was soul-destroying.

tl;dr? You can fuck right off with your "you'd soon be finding a job" bullshit and just be thankful that you have one.

Jimmy. · 02-10-2018 5:52pm

Screw the worker even more to fund the fleadh for the rock and rollers. The Cash one for example.

Jim Bob Scratcher · 02-10-2018 6:02pm

Jimmy. wrote: »

Screw the worker even more to fund the fleadh for the rock and rollers. The Cash one for example.

Go on the rock and roll then, and reap the colossal 198 euro :rolleyes:

Jimmy. · 02-10-2018 6:09pm

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Go on the rock and roll then, and reap the colossal 198 euro :rolleyes:

You only able to count to 200?

enricoh · 02-10-2018 6:12pm

Increase stealth taxes to increase social welfare and public sector pay. Employers have to increase pay to compete with the dole and the public sector. Making Ireland less competitive.

Increase in diesel just before brexit kicks off a right kick in the nuts for hauliers, farmers , fishermen etc... The unsung grafters in the country.

Hotel vat rate increased just cos Dublin hotels are overpriced. Should help close cafes, restaurants pubs and hotels around the country that are barely hanging on. Whatever money is made by increasing it should cover increased numbers on the dole and less income tax!

Time for another bust n let the imf run the show! No budgets that have to buy a few votes with them boys!

runawaybishop · 02-10-2018 9:27pm

Specialun wrote: »

public sector getting a huge chunk as per..while productivity decreases.

Pay restoration , for the money that was cut previously.

dxhound2005 · 02-10-2018 9:42pm

enricoh wrote: »

Increase stealth taxes to increase social welfare and public sector pay. Employers have to increase pay to compete with the dole and the public sector. Making Ireland less competitive.

Private sector employers do not have to compete with wages in the public sector. Because there are about six times as many employed in the private sector. They have to compete with each other. And at the top end, salaries in the private sector are many multiples of what anyone can earn in the public sector.

Can you give an example of a stealth tax.

snotboogie · 02-10-2018 9:49pm

It’s just a holdover budget while they hope and pray things keep going well into 2019, when we have a huge bond rollover and can get far more favorable rates, pending a favorable debt to GDP ratio. If that comes to pass, they can then start the real spending on projects like Dublin Metro, Galway Ring, M20/NRR.

Jimmy. · 02-10-2018 9:50pm

snotboogie wrote: »

It’s just a holdover budget while they hope and pray things keep going well into 2019, when we have a huge bond rollover and can get far more favorable rates, pending a favorable debt to GDP ratio. If that comes to pass, they can then start the real spending on projects like Dublin Metro, Galway Ring, M20/NRR.

It will be all spent on council houses.

tiredblondie · 02-10-2018 9:51pm

If hotel vat rate increases, and wedding is booked and deposit paid for next year, could the hotel increase the cost of the wedding to include the increase?

Jimmy. · 02-10-2018 9:54pm

tiredblondie wrote: »

If hotel vat rate increases, and wedding is booked and deposit paid for next year, could the hotel increase the cost of the wedding to include the increase?

They will of course.

noodler · 02-10-2018 9:56pm

Jimmy. wrote: »

They will of course.

Aye.

And understandably.

Tax is based on when the activity takes place. Not when you booked.

Jimmy. · 02-10-2018 9:58pm

The dildo is always hard.

tiredblondie · 02-10-2018 9:58pm

noodler wrote: »

Aye.

And understandably.

Tax is based on when the activity takes place. Not when you booked.

And if I paid the remaining balance beforehand, would it still increase?

dxhound2005 · 02-10-2018 10:00pm

tiredblondie wrote: »

And if I paid the remaining balance beforehand, would it still increase?

Wait to see what happens in the budget. If the VAT rate goes up, contact the hotel to discuss the matter.

astrofool · 02-10-2018 10:04pm

It's going to be fun looking for the issue that will cause FF to go off in a huff, only for the government to modify it somehow and make FF look like a hero (as if FF won't know the full details before it comes out). Watch for the FF politicians sticking their necks out on budget day to see which item causes the most "outrage".

astrofool · 02-10-2018 10:05pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Pay restoration , for the money that was cut previously.

Restoring to the unsustainable levels caused by the previous housing bubble you mean?

lawred2 · 02-10-2018 10:07pm

astrofool wrote: »

Restoring to the unsustainable levels caused by the previous housing bubble you mean?

What a waste of time and effort that Croke Park charade inevitably turned out to be.

Wildly Boaring · 02-10-2018 10:08pm

astrofool wrote: »

It's going to be fun looking for the issue that will cause FF to go off in a huff, only for the government to modify it somehow and make FF look like a hero (as if FF won't know the full details before it comes out). Watch for the FF politicians sticking their necks out on budget day to see which item causes the most "outrage".

Yep. The routine is getting old.

Oh you wont increase the pension till March.
Huff!!!!
Media!!!!!
Look look increase in mid February.

No need to thank us

animaal · 03-10-2018 7:24am

I judge a government by its actions rather than its words. By that measure, looking at the budget, we appear to have a centre-left government.

- 2:1 spending/taxes
- Union demands met
- Tax bands unlikely to be indexed with inflation
- Welfare increases to meet/exceed inflation
- Concessions to the middle classes to be clawed back in other tax increases

There are parties whose main interest is the low-paid and the unpaid, but no party fights for the interests of the middle classes.

This is all fine for now, but at some stage there'll be a party to fill that gap in the market. When the day comes, I hope it won't be a party too far to the right (e.g. a mirror image of the PBP/AAA-type groups). We'll see. It's happened in other countries when large groups felt unrepresented.

dxhound2005 · 03-10-2018 7:31am

animaal wrote: »

I judge a government by its actions rather than its words. By that measure, looking at the budget, we appear to have a centre-left government.

- 2:1 spending/taxes
- Union demands met
- Tax bands unlikely to be indexed with inflation
- Welfare increases to meet/exceed inflation
- Concessions to the middle classes to be clawed back in other tax increases

There are parties whose main interest is the low-paid and the unpaid, but no party fights for the interests of the middle classes.

This is all fine for now, but at some stage there'll be a party to fill that gap in the market. When the day comes, I hope it won't be a party too far to the right (e.g. a mirror image of the PBP/AAA-type groups). We'll see. It's happened in other countries when large groups felt unrepresented.

Middle can mean different things to different people. Middle income is €70K to €80K for a full time working couple in my view. What do you mean by middle?

JJJJNR · 03-10-2018 7:44am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Thankfully, that'll never happen. I was on jobseekers benefit for a few months this year and it was difficult enough to get by on €198 a week. The figures are currently being massaged to suggest that we have full employment (people on 'activation schemes' like the disastrously wasteful and unhelpful 'Jobpath' are removed from the live register, despite still being unemployed), but the truth is that it can take time to actually find a job. I got lucky after months of searching, but Jesus, the whole process was soul-destroying.

tl;dr? You can fuck right off with your "you'd soon be finding a job" bullshit and just be thankful that you have one.

I don't think job-seeker’s is the same as sw recipients, with job-seekers you pay it back through additional taxes when you return to work full time. I don't think that's what the OP means. If your long term and have no interest in working you are probably doing the double as well. Great country and the EU, they'll have a grant for toilet paper soon.

Loves_lorries · 03-10-2018 7:47am

animaal wrote: »

I judge a government by its actions rather than its words. By that measure, looking at the budget, we appear to have a centre-left government.

- 2:1 spending/taxes
- Union demands met
- Tax bands unlikely to be indexed with inflation
- Welfare increases to meet/exceed inflation
- Concessions to the middle classes to be clawed back in other tax increases

There are parties whose main interest is the low-paid and the unpaid, but no party fights for the interests of the middle classes.

This is all fine for now, but at some stage there'll be a party to fill that gap in the market. When the day comes, I hope it won't be a party too far to the right (e.g. a mirror image of the PBP/AAA-type groups). We'll see. It's happened in other countries when large groups felt unrepresented.

All parties fight for the middle class of the public sector, all parties vigorously court that voter bloc.

animaal · 03-10-2018 7:56am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Middle can mean different things to different people. Middle income is €70K to €80K for a full time working couple in my view. What do you mean by middle?

True, it can mean different things to different people. I think it's about standard of living, which includes income but also expenditure and debt. There isn't a clear line.

The €70k you mention, i.e. €35k per person, is roughly the point at which higher-rate income tax starts to be paid. I think that's a fair enough starting point. Although somebody earning less could have just a good a quality of life due to other factors. But I would say, for example, that with our tax system any single earner (as opposed to a couple) earning €70k-€80k, while having more comfort, would would not have a significantly different standard of living to somebody earning €20K less. I think they too could be termed part of the "middle".

I think most TDs would probably consider themselves to be middle-class, and they earn somewhere around €96k per year. It's debatable.

lawred2 · 03-10-2018 8:09am

animaal wrote: »

True, it can mean different things to different people. I think it's about standard of living, which includes income but also expenditure and debt. There isn't a clear line.

The €70k you mention, i.e. €35k per person, is roughly the point at which higher-rate income tax starts to be paid. I think that's a fair enough starting point. Although somebody earning less could have just a good a quality of life due to other factors. But I would say, for example, that with our tax system any single earner (as opposed to a couple) earning €70k-€80k, while having more comfort, would would not have a significantly different standard of living to somebody earning €20K less. I think they too could be termed part of the "middle".

I think most TDs would probably consider themselves to be middle-class, and they earn somewhere around €96k per year. It's debatable.

not by most international standards it isn't

animaal · 03-10-2018 8:59am

lawred2 wrote: »

not by most international standards it isn't

I'm not sure there are international standards. For example, The average full-time worker in Ireland earned €45,611 in 2016. Although we can debate the detail, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that middle-class might be a spread from 75% of this income to twice this income.

Either way, people in this range of incomes have no party actively representing their interests.

Wanderer78 · 03-10-2018 9:02am

animaal wrote:

I judge a government by its actions rather than its words. By that measure, looking at the budget, we appear to have a centre-left government.

My centre-left differs greatly from your centre-left

Sweet.Science · 03-10-2018 9:11am

https://www.rte.ie/tv/audience-participation/2018/0928/998789-prime-time-budget-special-2018-audience-tickets/

VinLieger · 03-10-2018 9:18am

Screw getting a couple of quid back in income tax its the increasing costs of everything else that's is killing people and they are doing nothing about those.

Childcare, insurance, electricity, gas (due for its 2nd rise this year) to name only a few of the biggest drains on peoples pockets that they don't have a choice in but just keeping going up with zero help from the government.

c6ysaphjvqw41k · 03-10-2018 9:34am

This post has been deleted.

snotboogie · 03-10-2018 9:37am

animaal wrote: »

I'm not sure there are international standards. For example, The average full-time worker in Ireland earned €45,611 in 2016. Although we can debate the detail, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that middle-class might be a spread from 75% of this income to twice this income.

Either way, people in this range of incomes have no party actively representing their interests.

Average isn't a great measure of how income is distributed in Ireland since a small number of huge earners push up the average pay. The median, which the CSO stopped measuring, is about 10k lower.

Looking forward to budget.

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