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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

19899101103104194

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Flake could be going to look for an investigation to stall so he can vote no in a week.

    All back in now by the looks of it and Cruz was smiling, the Republicans look happier again.

    Jaysus grassley is out again :)

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    Serious discussions going on about delaying the vote and reopening FBI investigation. According to MSNBC.

    Not sure how they works considering its the WH that decides on the FBI inv.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I don't think Senator Grassley will want the outcome of the vote [whichever way it falls] to be his senate legacy. Regardless, I want to see what Don tweets about the result.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Here we go

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    So... it looks as though Flake has said he will vote yes for Kavanaugh's nomination IF there is a short FBI background check first. Flake has said all along, he wants to know the truth of the matter. So Grassley hasn't got the votes to get the nominee forwarded to the full Senate vote.

    That's a complete guess, BTW.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    listermint wrote: »
    Trump won states mean nothing right now , as we have seen from the tightest of margins in red areas. Which the GOP threw money at. They simply can't fund that level across all these seats against a highly motivated dem base. There is an awakening coming . Forcing kavanagh through will push the floating voters of which theyve relied on in the past.

    Well, it does mean something, given that the drop in Republican support still has to be higher than the margin of victory before. In places where there was a huge margin of victory, a huge drop in support cans still mean little. If you look at the special elections held since 2016, the drop in support hasn't necessarily resulted in a loss of election. Two extreme cases in point: Ohio's 12th, where the Republicans lost 36% points from their margin of victory, or Arizona's Eighth, where Republicans lost 32%. Those are catastrophic drops in support, but as they say, "close" only counts in horseshoes and nuclear weapons. Republicans still both won.

    The few races since 2016 where Democrats won have either been somewhat close to begin with (eg Penn 18th) or specifically unusual, such as the Arizona Senate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    Flake giving statement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Yep, one week delay for investigation


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    Wow!!

    If the FBI get involved, I believe Kavanaugh will withdraw.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Jeff Flake saying he talked to people from the opposite side of the floor, recommends a delay of a week to the vote so there can be an investigation into the allegations


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    It seems to be a delay on the Senate vote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    aloyisious wrote: »
    Jeff Flake saying he talked to people from the opposite side of the floor, recommends a delay of a week to the vote so there can be an investigation into the allegations

    Mitch can still force through


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Yep, one week delay for investigation

    This, I believe has ramifications for the cases lined up from Monday if he is not voted on by then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    Pelvis wrote: »
    Wow!!

    If the FBI get involved, I believe Kavanaugh will withdraw.

    As soon as Mark Judge starts blabbing, the jig is up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Yep, one week delay for investigation

    There is no change.

    Flake is saying what he would like to see happen toote yes on the floor (and we all know how firm he I'd in his positions) grassley has said he will advocate that position.

    What you think McConnell is gonna tell them?

    He will be the one who decides now the process has been passed out of committee

    Feinstein actually has no idea what is happening , she is so poorly informed of her job it's incredible.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,758 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    If there is nothing in the FBI investigation, will Christine Blasey Ford be charged for lying under oath?
    Or if there is, will Brett Kavanaugh be charged for lying under oath?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Her friend said she believes her, she just doesn't remember the party. But when 4 older boys ply two fifteen year olds with drink that's not exactly surprising is it? The only person who said it didn't happen was Kavanaugh. Everyone else said they don't remember the party in question. Again, not surprising if they didn't know anything happened there. Judge is the only one who was supposed to have witnessed it and he doesn't want to give evidence because of anxiety issues caused by his alcoholism.

    It's a bit like that quote from Street Fighter, of all things.
    "For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday."
    You have a very different memory and perception of an event of significance in your life than you do if it blurs into other, similar events.

    I can remember very few parties in detail from my youth but I can still remember the event where I was sexually assaulted by an adult man and nearly raped in quite a bit of detail, even though I was drunk.

    And I didn't tell anyone about it either, bar one or two friends, years and years later. I still haven't and I don't intend to any time soon.
    I was a teenager and at a family event. On the off chance that someone could figure out who I am, I'd rather not get more specific. It'd make me incredibly sad to know that the family in question's event was ruined in retrospect because they became aware of what happened to me at it.

    Even thinking about talking about it with my immediate family makes me feel ill.
    And it's not because I'm ashamed of it - perhaps I gained some measure of closure because I was able to fight him off after I recovered from being so drunk, and being in a state of shock, and when it was clear that "playing dead" to try and get him to stop groping and kissing me wasn't working.
    Nevertheless, it would be profoundly uncomfortable. I certainly bloody well wouldn't want to step up in front of the whole world and have a natter about it with a bunch of weasels who don't give a **** whether or not I'm telling the truth and will railroad through the perpetrator regardless.

    There's some different dynamics at play between any incident like this, not least whether the victims are male or female, but it only takes a shred of imagination and empathy to be able to understand why it mightn't be straightforward to come forward about these kinds of accusations, or why it might be difficult to corroborate such a claim.

    Obviously, I wouldn't expect the man who assaulted me to be locked up on my say so, and nobody else is making that claim in Kavanaugh's case. What they're saying is that if it's credible, then the plausibility of the event having taken place is reason enough to delay the appointment and investigate.

    Even leaving all that aside, Kavanaugh's performance has made it clear as day that he's unsuited to the role; for his partisanship, his almost certain perjury and his clear disdain for due process. Appointing him to the SC would make an absolute farce of the institution, even if he's now cleared of sexual assault following an investigation.

    And even if he's not ultimately confirmed, it's clear that the process needs to be revised. There shouldn't be even the opportunity for partisanship to interfere in the way it has.
    If the SC wants to be partisan, it requires term limits and a popular vote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    Will somebody please peel President Trump off the ceiling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Listen to Feinstein like, she literally has no idea what's happening.

    She seems to think they were voting in with an amendment. Absolutely clueless like.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    They didn't rule on the motion. :confused:

    Farcical.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Pelvis wrote: »
    They didn't rule on the motion. :confused:

    Farcical.

    There was no motion!

    They voted on sending it to the floor, it passed. Like it was always going to pass!

    Flake can want whatever he wants, hell Grassley can want whatever he wants. Its up to Mitch Mconnell now. The committee job is over.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Mitch can still force through


    If Mitch pushes a vote on the floor without reopening the FBI investigation, Flake is basically saying he is not married to that positon, and may vote Kav up or down. He wants a week for the FBI to complete due diligence.

    Fair play, Jeff.. A difficult but honourable approach...

    Now Grassley is playing another game with invoking a 2-hour rule... Don;t understand that...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the FBI investigation, will Christine Blasey Ford be charged for lying under oath?
    Or if there is, will Brett Kavanaugh be charged for lying under oath?

    If there is, lying under oath will be the least of his problems


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Everyone seems confused.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,185 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Listen to Feinstein like, she literally has no idea what's happening.

    She seems to think they were voting in with an amendment. Absolutely clueless like.

    Its damning on this office that two awful politicians like Grassley and Feinstein have such prominent positions. Which one is worse is a debate for another day, but Good Lord put both out to pasture please.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Umm Senator Grassley calling a halt to proceeding, citing a 2-hour rule on sitting of the committee. Some-how I reckon a conference call coming on, along with a meeting with JF in a private room to bend his ear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the FBI investigation, will Christine Blasey Ford be charged for lying under oath?
    Or if there is, will Brett Kavanaugh be charged for lying under oath?


    If memory serves, I think the senate would need to refer perjury charges to the fbi. I don't think the FBI can just watch senate testimony and initiate investigations - they'd get nothing else done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the FBI investigation, will Christine Blasey Ford be charged for lying under oath?
    Or if there is, will Brett Kavanaugh be charged for lying under oath?

    If they can prove that she lied, then yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Flake and his supporters on the wish to delay for a week will need to be very strong getting the message across that they will be voting no if this is not done. They will also need to pry Joe manchin away from a yes.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    This is more intriguing than most seasons of House of Cards!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,441 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So there was a vote to move it to the floor of the senate which has happened. But was there a vote on the motion to delay the vote ? It cut out on me. So this suggestion from Jeff flake isn't binding on the senate unless Mitch McConnell agrees with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Graham can be very funny at times. :D

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So there was a vote to move it to the floor of the senate which has happened. But was there a vote on the motion to delay the vote ? It cut out on me. So this suggestion from Jeff flake isn't binding on the senate unless Mitch McConnell agrees with it.

    No because they don't have that power. It's up to Mitch now what happens.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    everlast75 wrote: »
    If there is, lying under oath will be the least of his problems

    Why exactly?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So there was a vote to move it to the floor of the senate which has happened. But was there a vote on the motion to delay the vote ? It cut out on me. So this suggestion from Jeff flake isn't binding on the senate unless Mitch McConnell agrees with it.

    There wasn't a motion on the delay. Flake voted to move it to the floor, on the understanding that the FBI would be asked to do the required investigation to be completed within one week. Grassley said he can't guarantee that McConnell/Schumer will agree to that as it is beyond his control. So its down to McConnell 1) to agree/disagree and 2) to try and arrange the FBI gig. However, that will depend on Trump to ask the FBI..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,741 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Flake the only GOP member who has some kinda of back bone to go against trump

    What is the harm in a week.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,441 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So there was a vote to move it to the floor of the senate which has happened. But was there a vote on the motion to delay the vote ? It cut out on me. So this suggestion from Jeff flake isn't binding on the senate unless Mitch McConnell agrees with it.

    No because they don't have that power. It's up to Mitch now what happens.
    Okay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,441 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Hallie Jackson on MSNBC said trump is saying it's up to the republican senators.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the FBI investigation, will Christine Blasey Ford be charged for lying under oath?
    Or if there is, will Brett Kavanaugh be charged for lying under oath?
    Brett will have other issues at that point.

    No if Ford is lying. Republicans would block the investigation into Ford pretty quickly. If Ford is lying then the Reps get their man on the supreme court. If they go after Ford for lying then they are forced to admit that lying to the senate is a serious crime and Brett (and their majority) goes down due to his virgin pioneer act. We know Brett has lied. It is just about how much.

    Note. They have a week so trial level proof may not be found either way.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Headshot wrote: »
    Flake the only GOP member who has some kinda of back bone to go against trump

    What is the harm in a week.....

    Don't be fooled

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    If Collins, Murkawski and Flake all say they will not vote to confirm Kavanaugh without the FBI investigation, then McConnell can't force through diddly squat. He'll lose the vote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Christy42 wrote: »
    RobertKK wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the FBI investigation, will Christine Blasey Ford be charged for lying under oath?
    Or if there is, will Brett Kavanaugh be charged for lying under oath?
    Brett will have other issues at that point.

    No if Ford is lying. Republicans would block the investigation into Ford pretty quickly. If Ford is lying then the Reps get their man on the supreme court. If they go after Ford for lying then they are forced to admit that lying to the senate is a serious crime and Brett (and their majority) goes down due to his virgin pioneer act. We know Brett has lied. It is just about how much.

    Note. They have a week so trial level proof may not be found either way.
    Shifting the responsibility away from himself. He must think his pick may fail at this point and wants to avoid admitting any blame.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,185 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Duck Soup wrote: »
    Will somebody please peel President Trump off the ceiling.

    CBS are saying he is rather relaxed over it, he did actually like Ford Yesterday. It will be Mc Connell on the war path for now not him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,441 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Trump talking on MSNBC. And he sounds normal and no bluster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Pelvis wrote: »
    If they can prove that she lied, then yes.


    If they lie to the FBI, then the FBI can charge them but I'm not sure that the FBI will be looking for perjury charges arising from the senate testimony. Like I said, I'm not sure so I may need to be corrected on this. I have doubts because I thought that one of Mueller's perps was charged with lying to the senate. I'll go look it up and get back later.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Mahogany Gaspipe


    Quite a photo..

    DoIRvdJXsAEqy8d.jpg

    Why did you post this particular screen shot?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Duck Soup wrote: »
    If Collins, Murkawski and Flake all say they will not vote to confirm Kavanaugh without the FBI investigation, then McConnell can't force through diddly squat. He'll lose the vote.

    Pretty big if

    Looking forward to Trump's measured take on this later!

    McConnell has Democrats he could work on too for the numbers. I'm hopeful of a week delay, but I'm not expecting it right now.

    McConnell has spent his entire political life dedicated to a goal, I can't see how backing off it easily.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,185 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Don't be fooled

    Yep he still likely to vote for Kav when the vote comes up. Its typical Flake, gives something to the left, but ultimately does what Mitch and Trump say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    CBS are saying he is rather relaxed over it, he did actually like Ford Yesterday. It will be Mc Connell on the war path for now not him.

    DJT just on a spray along with some dude from Chile.... Seems quite sanguine about it alright. Quite measured and statesman-like in fact... Gave props to both Ford and Kavanaugh... Possibly he'll be screaming at the remote later, but for now that seemed very measured...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,260 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Yep he still likely to vote for Kav when the vote comes up. Its typical Flake, gives something to the left, but ultimately does what Mitch and Trump say.

    Rinse and repeat

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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