Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Pelvis

Democrats have barricaded themselves in a room with Flake.

I don't think he'll change his mind now though.

Captain Obvious

Pelvis wrote: »

Democrats have barricaded themselves in a room with Flake.

I don't think he'll change his mind now though.

didn't Booker refuse to vote anyway?

Pelvis

Captain Obvious wrote: »

didn't Booker refuse to vote anyway?

The vote hasn't happened yet. I don't know what that vote earlier was.

I think it was a vote on whether to vote... Weird.

They're voting in the next view minutes.

Rjd2

Manic like many I enjoy your posts here, but do you not feel this is a monumental own goal by backing Kav long term?

Its motivated the Dem base hugely and there was much safer alternatives who would sailed through in specifically Ketheledge and Hardiman. I still think he should have been strong armed into stepping down last week for there own long term future. The base may have not been happy, but Barrett would have been an amazing consolation prize and I don't believe she would have been as hard of a confirmation as some think.

Zubeneschamali

Akrasia wrote: »

Not to mention his lies about what he intends to do regarding roe v wade and women's reproductive rights after he gets onto the supreme court (but are these acceptable lies because everyone knows he's lying?)

Everyone knows he's perjured himself about boofing, devil's triangle, renate alumni, beer, parties, his virginity and Ford.


He lied about Judges statement being under oath - really simple stuff that 20 seconds with Google disproves.


I think a real case for impeaching him should start now.

aloyisious

2 Scoops wrote: »

What lie?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/leland-ingham-keyser-pj-smyth-who-christine-blasey-ford-says-was-at-party-kavanaugh-judge-2018-9?r=US&IR=T

"Ford recalled that her friend, Leland Keyser (maiden name Ingham), was downstairs at the party during the alleged incident, but that she did not discuss it with Keyser after it happened.

Keyser, a long-time friend of Ford's, denied having attended such a party like the one Ford described after being contacted by staff for the Senate Judiciary Committee.

"Simply put, Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford," her attorney Howard Walsh wrote in a statement sent to the committee."

The words used "like the party described by Ford" are being used to dissuade people from the fact that the party took place. The words are NOT a straightforward denial before the committee hearing on oath that that a party took place or that she [Ms Keyser] was at the party. Re Ms Keyser not knowing Mr Kavanaugh, Mr Kavanaugh has made it clear in writing that he knows Ms Keyser at a personal level.

Manic Moran

Are you being intentionally dense ? It was said several times yesterday that Dr Ford asked senator Feinstein to keep her letter and info confidential. So would you like US senators to go against the wishes of an alleged sexual victim ?

What was the purpose of sending the letter? Presumably she wished the politicans to do -something- with the information. Obviously blaring her name across the airwaves was not one of the intended outcomes, and I'm still not sure quite how that happened, but there was some desired place on the spectrum between "Do nothing, I'm just writing to vent" and "Full court press."

Granted, the initial letter was simply an introduction and request to talk further, so that six-week gap to be questioned should be reduced a bit, but there is a reason that DiFi is getting some flak from other Democrats as to how this was handled. I think Associated Press is neutral enough for a timeline, no?

https://apnews.com/af6b15bd2abb490b858098ee889b57bd

By late August, even before Kavanaugh’s public confirmation hearings, Ford says she decided not to go public. She decided her story probably wouldn’t affect Kavanaugh’s confirmation and would certainly be personally painful, she told the Post.

“Why suffer through the annihilation if it’s not going to matter?” she said.

Feinstein, experienced as a member of the Senate’s intelligence committee with keeping secrets, says she kept mum.
<...>
It would soon be too late to affect Kavanaugh’s confirmation, they knew. Republicans planned a committee vote on Sept. 20, then a full Senate vote. They hoped to have him seated on the court by Oct. 1, the day the court began its new session.

The story about to break, the powder keg about to explode, the Judiciary Committee Democrats who gathered off the Senate floor that night decided Feinstein should take some action. She should send Ford’s letter — her name would be redacted — to the FBI.

The action would, perhaps inevitably, fuel the story. Feinstein would soon announce the move. Republicans would soon accuse her of sitting on an allegation, hiding it from Republicans and revealing it at the last minute to ensure, at the least, a delay in the process.

Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley of Iowa, who had known none of it, would be particularly upset that Feinstein, a longtime peer, had not shared the information.

Back in California, Feinstein’s opponent in her re-election bid would accuse her of a “failure of leadership.” She could have withheld the name and still made the allegation public, said Kevin de Leon, a Democrat in the California state Senate, and she should have confronted Kavanaugh with it at his hearing.

I'm actually voting for Feinstein in November, over de Leon, but on this one, I agree with him.

batgoat

And it's not over yet...
https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/1045724087824330758?s=19

2 Scoops

Captain Obvious wrote: »

How do you rate the reliability of a statement saying you were not at a party with someone when you don't know them.

Pretty highly when it's a very small gathering and considering they've been lifelong friends. When combined with all the other evidence and collaboration ( or lack there of ) it means something. Named witnesses deny, she can't remember date, can't remember where it happened, can't remember who drove her to and from the party over a 6+ mile distance.

Rjd2

batgoat wrote: »

And it's not over yet...
https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/1045724087824330758?s=19

Relying on Jeff Flake....:rolleyes:

batgoat

Rjd2 wrote: »

Relying on Jeff Flake....:rolleyes:

And the two other senators who this viewed to be down to..

aloyisious

It remains to be seen if Jeff Flake will stand by Judge Kavanaugh seeing as how he was accosted by two women in the senate building [in a lift apparently] and asked directly by one how he could vote for the Judge. One of the woman described to Mr Flake how she was a victim of a sexual assault and what his vote decision would mean to her as a victim. I think she described the disbelief angle. The incident was audibly recorded and played on the RTE Drive-time news programme.

Had to move away from laptop & TV as the screen has frozen on the laptop. Not au fait with current state of play.

Manic Moran

Rjd2 wrote: »

Manic like many I enjoy your posts here, but do you not feel this is a monumental own goal by backing Kav long term?

Its motivated the Dem base hugely and there was much safer alternatives who would sailed through in specifically Ketheledge and Hardiman. I still think he should have been strong armed into stepping down last week for there own long term future. The base may have not been happy, but Barrett would have been an amazing consolation prize and I don't believe she would have been as hard of a confirmation as some think.

I think it's a no-win situation for the GOP, honestly.

Backing down and replacing him with someone else would have been an easy way of getting someone they like onto SCOTUS before the next set of elections.
But to do that, they'd be backing down, and be seen caving in to Democrat dirty tricks and desperation. That's not what their voters want.

Staying the course may not be the worst move for them in the short term. Yes, the Democrat base is now more motivated. How much of the Democrat Base lives in West Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri, Nevada, North Dakota, Indiana, Texas or Montana, where the major senate races are in Novemeber? How much of the GOP base are in those States?

In the long term, yes, I can see how there is the possibility of a backlash, but there's two years to go between now and the next major election, so plenty of time for this to fade and be replaced by something else.

I believe this whole exercise is what is colloquially termed a "s**t-show"

Pelvis

aloyisious wrote: »

It remains to be seen if Jeff Flake will stand by Judge Kavanaugh seeing as how he was accosted by two women in the senate building [in a lift apparently] and asked directly by one how he could vote for the Judge. One of the woman described to Mr Flake how she was a victim of a sexual assault and what his vote decision would mean to her as a victim. The incident was audibly recorded and played on the RTE Drive-time news programme.

The video was posted earlier. Flake looked like he wanted the earth to open up and swallow him.

Captain Obvious

aloyisious wrote: »

It remains to be seen if Jeff Flake will stand by Judge Kavanaugh seeing as how he was accosted by two women in the senate building [in a lift apparently] and asked directly by one how he could vote for the Judge. One of the woman described to Mr Flake how she was a victim of a sexual assault and what his vote decision would mean to her as a victim. I think she described the disbelief angle. The incident was audibly recorded and played on the RTE Drive-time news programme.

You can see the video here


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeff-flake-cnn-protester-kavanaugh_us_5bae303be4b0425e3c22e899?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

StringerBell

Rjd2 wrote: »

Relying on Jeff Flake....:rolleyes:

Yes, it's like people will never learn.

Whatever it is though something is definitely going on, the vote should have begun 9 minutes ago.

Even grassley left the room at one point. Dems still out.

Graham et al looking decidedly pissed off right now.

But to put your stock in Jeff Flake? Nah, I'll have to see it to believe it

The vote will be put to the floor regardless the outcome here

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

I think it's a no-win situation for the GOP, honestly.

Backing down and replacing him with someone else would have been an easy way of getting someone they like onto SCOTUS before the next set of elections.
But to do that, they'd be backing down, and be seen caving in to Democrat dirty tricks and desperation. That's not what their voters want.

Staying the course may not be the worst move for them in the short term. Yes, the Democrat base is now more motivated. How much of the Democrat Base lives in West Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri, Nevada, North Dakota, Indiana, Texas or Montana, where the major senate races are in Novemeber? How much of the GOP base are in those States?

In the long term, yes, I can see how there is the possibility of a backlash, but there's two years to go between now and the next major election, so plenty of time for this to fade and be replaced by something else.

I believe this whole exercise is what is colloquially termed a "s**t-show"

Trump won states mean nothing right now , as we have seen from the tightest of margins in red areas. Which the GOP threw money at. They simply can't fund that level across all these seats against a highly motivated dem base. There is an awakening coming . Forcing kavanagh through will push the floating voters of which theyve relied on in the past.

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

I think it's a no-win situation for the GOP, honestly.

Backing down and replacing him with someone else would have been an easy way of getting someone they like onto SCOTUS before the next set of elections.
But to do that, they'd be backing down, and be seen caving in to Democrat dirty tricks and desperation. That's not what their voters want.

Staying the course may not be the worst move for them in the short term. Yes, the Democrat base is now more motivated. How much of the Democrat Base lives in West Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri, Nevada, North Dakota, Indiana, Texas or Montana, where the major senate races are in Novemeber? How much of the GOP base are in those States?

In the long term, yes, I can see how there is the possibility of a backlash, but there's two years to go between now and the next major election, so plenty of time for this to fade and be replaced by something else.

I believe this whole exercise is what is colloquially termed a "s**t-show"

That's a fair post, I understand someone like Ketheledge would have been a meh nomination for the base if Kav dropped out, but Barrett makes so much sense I am shocked they did not try and go to her.

StringerBell

Grassley out the gap again, it's like reality TV.

Gonna be such a let down for so many people

Captain Obvious

StringerBell wrote: »

Grassley out the gap again, it's like reality TV.

Gonna be such a let down for so many people

Flake could be going to look for an investigation to stall so he can vote no in a week.

StringerBell

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Flake could be going to look for an investigation to stall so he can vote no in a week.

All back in now by the looks of it and Cruz was smiling, the Republicans look happier again.

Jaysus grassley is out again

Pelvis

Serious discussions going on about delaying the vote and reopening FBI investigation. According to MSNBC.

Not sure how they works considering its the WH that decides on the FBI inv.

aloyisious

I don't think Senator Grassley will want the outcome of the vote [whichever way it falls] to be his senate legacy. Regardless, I want to see what Don tweets about the result.

StringerBell

Here we go

Duck Soup

So... it looks as though Flake has said he will vote yes for Kavanaugh's nomination IF there is a short FBI background check first. Flake has said all along, he wants to know the truth of the matter. So Grassley hasn't got the votes to get the nominee forwarded to the full Senate vote.

That's a complete guess, BTW.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

Trump won states mean nothing right now , as we have seen from the tightest of margins in red areas. Which the GOP threw money at. They simply can't fund that level across all these seats against a highly motivated dem base. There is an awakening coming . Forcing kavanagh through will push the floating voters of which theyve relied on in the past.

Well, it does mean something, given that the drop in Republican support still has to be higher than the margin of victory before. In places where there was a huge margin of victory, a huge drop in support cans still mean little. If you look at the special elections held since 2016, the drop in support hasn't necessarily resulted in a loss of election. Two extreme cases in point: Ohio's 12th, where the Republicans lost 36% points from their margin of victory, or Arizona's Eighth, where Republicans lost 32%. Those are catastrophic drops in support, but as they say, "close" only counts in horseshoes and nuclear weapons. Republicans still both won.

The few races since 2016 where Democrats won have either been somewhat close to begin with (eg Penn 18th) or specifically unusual, such as the Arizona Senate.

Pelvis

Flake giving statement.

Captain Obvious

Yep, one week delay for investigation

Pelvis

Wow!!

If the FBI get involved, I believe Kavanaugh will withdraw.

aloyisious

Jeff Flake saying he talked to people from the opposite side of the floor, recommends a delay of a week to the vote so there can be an investigation into the allegations