How can Brick & Mortar shops compete with Online Shopping?

Andy From Sligo · 26-09-2018 10:50pm #1

Minister Michael Ring has been on a rant today about people using online shopping instead of using local shops. how can local shops overcome the convenience / prices / range that online shops can offer ... and for this reason do you think normal bricks and mortar shop have had their day or will have their day very soon? - times change ... more people shop on line than ever, its the future isnt it? so how can it be stopped? - just like some people have said that big out of town retail parks have killed town centres and made them like ghost towns, arent we just looking at with modernisation again that online shopping is killing bricks and mortar shops?

one of my (whacky maybe) ideas is to look at bricks and mortar shops maybe breaking themould of years gone by and instead of just opening up from say 8am in the morning and closing at 6pm (or 8pm on 'late night's) isnt it time that they maybe look into breaking the mould and maybe openning (OK not 24 hours maybe) a lot longer than they already do? - I mean you can shop 24 hours on online shopping there are no barriers - theres no 8am - 6pm shopping online ... you could wake up at 2am in the morning and be browsing the internet and something could catch your eye and the credit card comes out and in appoximately 1 minute - you buy it (you cannot buy it locally from a Bricks and mortar shop even if you wanted to drive into town and get it because they are closed!) - you place your order and normally within 24-48 hours your goods arrive... and not only that , most times right on your doorstep .. you dont even have to venture out or find a parking space ... or lug your purchase back to the car park if its heavy and the car park is hundreds of meters away!

indeed if shops were more flexible with their hours they could even say to people "look if you order it online you have to wait for your delivery , and pay a delivery charge but if you buy it off us you can pick it up straight away!" and use it as a selling point ... but for convenience I dont think they can survive much longer just opening from 8am to 6pm - they pay their rent/rates for 24hours but are only open a fraction of that time . Now I know it would most probabaly be a nightmare having to pay for overtime and get extra staff for the shops and security if it is going to be open late at night and extra electricity/heating and there could be times when only 1 or 2 people could be browsing around and they might think it not worth it and costing more to open than stay closed but its worth a try isnt it? - even if they have tried it in the past and it didnt work out theres no telling it could fail again ?

that I think just maybe one Idea at 'trying' to beat online shopping and get shoppers back shopping in traditional bricks and mortar shops.

The old adage of people being 'asked' or told to "shop Local" simply isnt enough , its not working and I dont think it ever will ... long gone are the days where most people were loyal to local shops - there may be the odd few people that still do these days but they are dying out (sorry to be blunt but its true) ... a lot of people dont have the money to be loyal and spend money in a shop if they can get it online cheaper - they are out for a bargain, and for convenience and choice and its whats happening and this is the future , you cannot stop modernisation i suppose ... if something better comes along people will use it.. and people are. - so anyway as I say people like yer man getting his knickers in a twist and blaming shoppers for not shopping local and people using the old terms of "if you dont use it you will lose it!" and "shop local" and "support Local shops/local jobs" and all that .. maybe if local shops start breaking out of their comfort zones of what they have been used to trading for decades and do some radical stuff and new ideas then maybe they might be able to compete with online traders? - or is it as I say that most bricks and mortar shops , and town centre shopping had its day or will have its day very soon?

Jimmy. · 26-09-2018 10:55pm

Welcome to 2002, Jesus wept perharps.

doolox · 26-09-2018 11:05pm

Met the local post man today and I was amused to notice that he had at least a dozen parcels similar to the one being dropped of for my daughter containing chinese beauty products which girls buy online for a few euros.

He told me he is busy most days with these types of small online orders.

Similarly I find it easier to but hardware online especially if it is specialised and not needed that day.

As for guitar strings the local shops charge 7-8 euros for a set of six acoustic strings and I can get them online for €1.50.....and they never break.

The big name brands are always breaking.

McMurphy · 26-09-2018 11:07pm

Maybe the bricks and mortar shops have been lobbying the lads in Leinster house next.

Funny thing is though, as much as I love buying bargains online, I hate to see boarded up ghost towns etc, no commerce taking place etc.

wakka12 · 26-09-2018 11:09pm

I think its a bit over dramatic to say shops might have had their day soon, walk around centre of dublin, its nearly hard to walk around without bumping into people most days and rents are accordingly sky high due to demand

Personally I hate internet shopping and nothing beats browsing things in real life, buying it there and then. Ill only buy online if I can't find something in town. Theres many other forms of commerce in towns centres that aren't shopping though, hairdressers cafes pubs etc

n!ghtmancometh · 26-09-2018 11:14pm

Most of the unique shops, cafes and restaurants in Dublin City Centre have been replaced by UK/US chain rubbish like Deals/Poundland, Starbucks, Costa, Cafe Nero, TGI Fridays, Boots, Nandos and multiple tacky tourist shops.

Andy From Sligo · 26-09-2018 11:16pm

wakka12 wrote: »

I think its a bit over dramatic to say shops might have had their day soon, walk around centre of dublin, its nearly hard to walk around without bumping into people most days and rents are accordingly sky high due to demand

Personally I hate internet shopping and nothing beats browsing things in real life, buying it there and then. Ill only buy online if I can't find something in town. Theres many other forms of commerce in towns centres that aren't shopping though, hairdressers cafes pubs etc

maybe I should have made it clear about rural towns / small towns .. and I think that is what the minister is citing / blaming people for shopping online rather than using local shops to do all their shopping - i'd say places like Dublin and the life are a whole different story to rural areas / small towns of Ireland.

Andy From Sligo · 26-09-2018 11:23pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Most of the unique shops, cafes and restaurants in Dublin City Centre have been replaced by UK/US chain rubbish like Deals/Poundland, Starbucks, Costa, Cafe Nero, TGI Fridays, Boots, Nandos and multiple tacky tourist shops.

Got to be a market no ? - otherwise they wouldnt have even contemplated opening up there in the first place no?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 26-09-2018 11:30pm

Most of my big spends would be motorcycle gear and training equipment for Judo.

I'd say over 90% of my martial arts equipment is bought online and almost 100% of my motorcycle stuff are online purchases now. The savings are too great to ignore.

The other purchase is books, I haven't bought a book in a shop in years (apart from the Francis Ledwedge book I wanted which Easons had, but I ordered it online and collected it in the shop).

Clothes and food are bought locally.

Odyssey 2005 · 26-09-2018 11:37pm

Bought tyres the other day,should be here tomorrow or Friday I hope. €86.11 each delivered. Cheapest I could get them was €125 but was quoted €145 In another place. Very same items. Know why ppl are shopping on line.

Roger Hassenforder · 26-09-2018 11:40pm

Oi 'erd a roumur of a Tesco wot stays open 24 'ours!
Imagine dat.

Graham · 26-09-2018 11:41pm

Call me cynical but I don't think Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium on Ballygoflipflop Main Street is going to hold off competition from BooHoo/Asos/Amazon by opening 24/7.

bodhrandude · 27-09-2018 12:07am

Well you can't download a pint of milk, box of teabags or a loaf of bread, you have to go to the shops to get these things.

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:18am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Oi 'erd a roumur of a Tesco wot stays open 24 'ours!
Imagine dat.

our Tesco in sligo (in the tiger years I think it were) opened 24hours - dont think that it is now ... maybe around 11pm shuts now - dont know the reasoning . maybe found wasnt worth keeping it 24 hours ... (or the staff fell asleep at 2am maybe?)

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:21am

Graham wrote: »

Call me cynical but I don't think Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium on Ballygoflipflop Main Street is going to hold off competition from BooHoo/Asos/Amazon by opening 24/7.

Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium shtuff is all coming back in fashion (for the third time) dontcha know?

- trouble is they shut at 5.30pm (with an hour for lunch - closed mondays) and thats no good when someone wakes up at 2am and has the urge to buy something from Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium ... because she is shut! ... you snooze you loose!

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:22am

bodhrandude wrote: »

Well you can't download a pint of milk, box of teabags or a loaf of bread, you have to go to the shops to get these things.

not heard of Tesco online groceries?

Twenty Grand · 27-09-2018 12:29am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium shtuff is all coming back in fashion (for the third time) dontcha know? - trouble is they shut at 5.30pm (with an hour for lunch - closed mondays) and thats no good when someone wakes up at 2am and has the urge to buy something from Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium ... because she is shut! ... you snooze you loose!

Why are shops open when most people are working?

I could never figure that out. I've worked in many places and bar the lunchtime rush, you don't see the same type of shopper on the weekdays that you see at the weekend.

Even if shops opened 11 to 7, at least people would have a chance to pick something up after work, instead of thinking "oh its Monday, I'll have to wait till Thursday to buy that thing when the shop is open late, but if I buy online I'll have it by Wednesday... "

There's a place nearby that sells coal cheap. They're open 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I'd love to but coal from them, but I'd have to take time off work to pick it up

donegal_man · 27-09-2018 12:31am

While the days of the physical shop may be indeed numbered I don't think it's for a while yet. I was working until 9:00pm and when I called into one of the late night shops on my way home there were about a dozen people in getting various bits and pieces. Tesco or Amazon may well deliver but if you need a carton of milk or a loaf you're hardly going to wait for them. While I do make some purchases online, mainly books, I'd never consider buying clothes or shoes which I need to try on before purchase. The hassle involved in returning something that isn't as described or ill fitting is just more than I can be bothered with.

Mean Laqueefa · 27-09-2018 12:36am

if you need milk or bread and such and live 20min walk to a shop get off your ass and walk it, you will feel better for it.

Big purchases go online for the deals and money saved ie motorcycle gear or guitar strings as mentioned.

I went t my local shop the other day and left my debit card at home, said i would pop home and grab it yer man is like its grand catch me tomorrow, amazon dont offer that. He even gave me a free selection box last christmas the legend

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:38am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why are shops open when most people are working?

I could never figure that out. I've worked in many places and bar the lunchtime rush, you don't see the same type of shopper on the weekdays that you see at the weekend.

Even if shops opened 11 to 7, at least people would have a chance to pick something up after work, instead of thinking "oh its Monday, I'll have to wait till Thursday to buy that thing when the shop is open late, but if I buy online I'll have it by Wednesday... "

There's a place nearby that sells coal cheap. They're open 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I'd love to but coal from them, but I'd have to take time off work to pick it up

that was my thinking as well, thats why i was saying maybe this whole brick's and mortar shop opening times have to radically change - plus we get here in the rural's (dont think it happens in the big cities) but say like a shop closes at 6pm ... well about 5.45 pm the staff start cashing up, pulling down the shutters , huffing and puffing at the last minute shoppers - saying over the tannoy "this store will close in 15 minutes please make your way to the till" ... so they might 'officially' close at 6pm .. but the staff has had enough at 5.45pm - thats all got to be re-worked as well , it makes the customer feel at unease like they are doing something wrong by coming in at 5.45 even though the shop does not close until 6pm (apparently) - then you get to thinking "well if you dont want my custom I shall take it somewhere else" ....

sligojoek · 27-09-2018 12:41am

Just today I bought two trowels for work from Amazon UK. Delivered in three days for less than 60% of what I'd pay in Sligo town. Last week I did every shop in town for a chuck key for a drill. Eventually I found one in Buckley's (I'm sure you know the place Andy). It cost me 9.50. I nearly had a fit. I had to have it there and then. I could have got one online for less than half that but I'd have had to wait three days.

mzungu · 27-09-2018 12:42am

Online shopping and bricks and mortar need to settle this like gentlemen. A duel at dawn is the only solution.

prinzeugen · 27-09-2018 12:44am

sligojoek wrote: »

Just today I bought two trowels for work from Amazon UK. Delivered in three days for less than 60% of what I'd pay in Sligo town. Last week I did every shop in town for a chuck key for a drill. Eventually I found one in Buckley's (I'm sure you know the place Andy). It cost me 9.50. I nearly had a fit. I had to have it there and then. I could have got one online for less than half that but I'd have had to wait three days.

Chuck key for €9.50??? I can get 4 for that in Dublin from a well known builders merchants.

Mean Laqueefa · 27-09-2018 12:44am

mzungu wrote: »

Online shopping and bricks and mortar need to settle this like gentlemen. A duel at dawn is the only solution.

but bricks and motar dont open till atleast nine ?

sligojoek · 27-09-2018 12:44am

mzungu wrote: »

Online shopping and bricks and mortar need to settle this like gentlemen. A duel at dawn is the only solution.

They can have a duel 24hrs a day now.

mzungu · 27-09-2018 12:47am

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

but bricks and motar dont open till atleast nine ?

A shame! That's an automatic disqualification. Online wins by walkover.

Not the best way to bow out, but far from the worst.

Tell me how · 27-09-2018 12:49am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Funny thing is though, as much as I love buying bargains online, I hate to see boarded up ghost towns etc, no commerce taking place etc.

This is the crux of the matter. I think people need to realise the community benefits with having a thriving local commercial centre. It is a social space, it gives employment, it is easier to handle returns, and it brightens up our town centres.

When I say people need to realise it, I mean all people, the customers, the business owners and the governing councils.

Things like surly shop owners who don't want to offer assistance are as bad as someone who rushes to google to find it cheaper when it comes to affecting local trade. And rates for businesses could also be looked at to try to entice businesses to operate in town centres.

sligojoek · 27-09-2018 12:49am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Chuck key for €9.50??? I can get 4 for that in Dublin from a well known builders merchants.

I know. It broke my heart. I had two of them but they "Evaporated" on a building site. I've an SDS drill but I need a chuck type for a hex shaft mixing paddle.

The only place in town that had one so they can charge what they like. Probably cost them 50c. The same place is not known for their cheapness.

prinzeugen · 27-09-2018 12:54am

I was wondering after posting in another thread if there could be a market for the mobile shops again.

Converted ambulances selling everything that does not need frozen. (Or even have two vans, one for tinned & fresh and another for frozen).

They did a roaring trade years ago.

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:57am

sligojoek wrote: »

Just today I bought two trowels for work from Amazon UK. Delivered in three days for less than 60% of what I'd pay in Sligo town. Last week I did every shop in town for a chuck key for a drill. Eventually I found one in Buckley's (I'm sure you know the place Andy). It cost me 9.50. I nearly had a fit. I had to have it there and then. I could have got one online for less than half that but I'd have had to wait three days.

i know, .. but then you will have us mere mortal shopper being blamed for empty units, boarded up shops because we want to buy stuff like a chuck key for a fraction of the price ... "but you should be paying the 9.50 what your local shop is charging ,we are always being told, because you are keeping that shop open and people in jobs and helping the local economy ... whereby if you pay the fraction of the prices your hard earned money is most probably even going out of the country, let alone not supporting local shops and keeping them open ... thats a terrible thing to do!"

donegal_man · 27-09-2018 1:17am

prinzeugen wrote: »

I was wondering after posting in another thread if there could be a market for the mobile shops again.

Converted ambulances selling everything that does not need frozen. (Or even have two vans, one for tinned & fresh and another for frozen).

They did a roaring trade years ago.

There are at least a couple of them on the go that I know of around rural Donegal. One is a butcher's, he comes around on Friday with your order and takes next weeks order or you can ring him anytime up to Thursday. The other does selection of groceries and also domestic gas cylinders, again you order the gas from him and he delivers separately from the groceries. Weirdly he delivers gas cheaper than some of the shops that you have to collect from.

Graces7 · 27-09-2018 7:02am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

maybe I should have made it clear about rural towns / small towns .. and I think that is what the minister is citing / blaming people for shopping online rather than using local shops to do all their shopping - i'd say places like Dublin and the life are a whole different story to rural areas / small towns of Ireland.

Well, yes and we out here rely on local shops and big chain supermarkets rather than online shopping. I almost never buy anything online even though I am all but housebound. On my rare outings I buy all needed in person and enjoy it

NB Minister Ring is my TD and he is on the ball re local situations.

Out in rural areas there are local/family loyalties also . And most folk are mobile - and fewer have computers.

Wanderer78 · 27-09-2018 7:03am

It's good for the economy........

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:29pm

unfortunate name that ... Minister Ring

RocketRaccoon · 27-09-2018 12:31pm

People buy online because its cheaper, simple as that. Bricks and mortar shops can't compete as they have too many overheads.

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 12:52pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

People buy online because its cheaper, simple as that. Bricks and mortar shops can't compete as they have too many overheads.

yep that and selection - theres an awful lot more selection to choose from online as well and its most of the time in stock , and items from different suppliers as well.

particularly in shops in rural Ireland , even some of the bigger stores and chains I have been met with (because most of the time I like to try buying locally if I can)
"oh sorry , Ive just checked and its out of stock here , they should be in next week.." or some are not even bothered and just say (sternly/unhelpful sometimes)"its not in stock" or "we dont stock it" or "theres not much call for it"

so then you have to come home, go on laptop and you can find loads of places that have it, and in stock and delivered in a couple of days! - with the advent of place like Parcel Motel its even better now these days because you can even order stuff from the UK that once before not so long ago wouldnt even entertain delivering to the ROI or if they did it was astronomical , something like 25UK pounds per item (hope parcel motel still around after brexit!) but with parcel motel you can get your stuff from amazon. ebay and other online stuff for only 3.99eur delivery ... and there are times where you can order stuff and even with the price of the product, and including postage to Ireland ... it still works out cheaper than sometimes buying/ordering something local or in ireland - I am sorry for the shops and their overheads and their heating and electric and wages rent / rates and insurance but at the end of the day my finances are tight most of the time so I really do have to save money where I can , if that means ordering online to say money and get the same/similar kind of product for less than (sometimes a hell of a lot less) local places then I am simply forced to .. sorry for the economy and having to spend my money out of the area but waht can you do? - if money was no object and the local shops had the items in stock , course me personally I would use them all the time and forget about online ordering , because I am impatient and hate having to wait for things to come through in the post -but most of the times these local shops dont make it easy at all for the shopping customers with their limited opening hours, items not stocked, inflated prices and in effect pushing them onto using online ordering .... and then complain that people are not shopping locally!

alias no.9 · 27-09-2018 2:26pm

Samsung have a tiered wholesale pricing strategy where the wholesale price of a phone being sold to a bricks and mortar retailer is lower than the price of an identical phone being sold to an online retailer. I believe the bricks and mortar stores get further discounts if they engage in active marketing.

The online retailer is considered to have lower overheads and if they're making a bigger margin, Samsung wants a cut. They also want to protect the high retail price their phones sell at, one online retailer happy to have a tight margin on a Samsung phone and make their profit through larger volumes could undermine their whole business.

You're probably going to see more branded products going this way over time.

riclad · 27-09-2018 4:00pm

The manager of a cafe in georges st was interviewed on radio, he said when they were sucessful ,the rent was raised ,by 200 or 300 per cent ,the small profit they made mean they had to close down ,maybe high rents
mean we only only left with shops like dealz, uk chain stores ,pennys etc
Many streets in dublin look like any street in the uk .
Its things like small shops and pubs run by irish people that make dublin different from any uk city.
Online stores pay less tax and insurance and dont have to pay high rent.
Maplins and peats closed they cant compete with online shopping.

Greyfox · 27-09-2018 4:00pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

well about 5.45 pm the staff start cashing up, pulling down the shutters , huffing and puffing at the last minute shoppers - saying over the tannoy "this store will close in 15 minutes please make your way to the till" ... so they might 'officially' close at 6pm .. but the staff has had enough at 5.45pm - thats all got to be re-worked as well , it makes the customer feel at unease like they are doing something wrong by coming in at 5.45 even though the shop does not close until 6pm (apparently) - then you get to thinking "well if you dont want my custom I shall take it somewhere else" ....

The problem here is idiots come into the shop at 5.55 and the staff are forced to work for free till 6.10 which is not fair on the staff. If you feel pressured you should of got to the shop earlier

Irish Guitarist · 27-09-2018 4:38pm

Most of what I buy online is stuff I'd never find in a shop here. I've boughts loads of CDs in the last few years that I've never have gotten here.

Twenty or so years ago I used to go to Dublin a couple of times a year just to look in all the big record shops. Now I can just think of some CD that I want and find it minutes or seconds.

The one shop that I haven't used since starting to shop online is the musical instrument shop. They sell plectrums for about 70 cent each. Instead I can buy a packet on Aliexpress for a couple of euro. And strings are a lot cheaper too especially if you buy them in bulk.

There's no point in buying clothes because with postage there's usually no savings. Cheap clothes are often labelled as the wrong size too.

bodhrandude · 27-09-2018 4:43pm

sugarman wrote: »

Have you been living under a rock for last 15 years? You can order all the above online and have it in a few hours. While not available here just yet, amazon's pantry can have your groceries delivered in under 2hrs in all UK major cities and 1hr in most US cities.

Lighten up, was just having the craic.

draiochtanois · 27-09-2018 4:46pm

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Sebastian Dangerfield · 27-09-2018 4:50pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Perhaps, if it ever gets going to the extent its offered in the UK. I use it quite a bit, but it's not quick.

horseofstone · 27-09-2018 4:55pm

Jimmy. wrote: »

Welcome to 2002, Jesus wept perharps.

It makes me wonder ,what the future holds, technology has advanced so much in the last 15 years.self driving electrical cars to come,more automation in industry thus reducing job opportunities for people.where will we be by 2050 ?

draiochtanois · 27-09-2018 4:55pm

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Sebastian Dangerfield · 27-09-2018 5:06pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

On a personal level I agree with you on the merits of Amazon - I use it every week. But I dont think a 10% saving, along with a week of waiting for the product, potentially with the added cost of a parcel service, necessarily spells the death knell of the Irish retail industry.

whiskeyman · 27-09-2018 5:24pm

I don't think 24 hrs is the way forward for bricks n mortar stores.
People are working longer hours, so will happily cut down on need to travel to a shop if they can order online.

The biggest factor is price.
The economies of scale online businesses wield means many shops can't compete.

They need to reinvent themselves better if price isn't battle. Perhaps way higher customer care, advice, support etc... But many of this only works for larger or more expensive purchases.

Stephen15 · 27-09-2018 5:26pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Most of the unique shops, cafes and restaurants in Dublin City Centre have been replaced by UK/US chain rubbish like Deals/Poundland, Starbucks, Costa, Cafe Nero, TGI Fridays, Boots, Nandos and multiple tacky tourist shops.

I'd agree but it's not exactly a new trend

draiochtanois · 27-09-2018 5:33pm

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moonage · 27-09-2018 5:42pm

bodhrandude wrote: »

Well you can't download a pint of milk, box of teabags or a loaf of bread, you have to go to the shops to get these things.

Hey grandad, I use a 3D printer to produce milk, bread, bricks, mortar etc.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 27-09-2018 6:03pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I understand perfectly well. It takes days if not a week atm. If were including Amazon Pantry, a parcel service is needes as they dont ship to Ireland

How can Brick & Mortar shops compete with Online Shopping?

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