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How can Brick & Mortar shops compete with Online Shopping?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    _Brian wrote: »
    The model of the bustling rural town is dead. There isn’t the employed population locally any more, we’re following the model Europe did and our population is becoming urbanised and condensed areound cities.

    so what do we do with existing shops then in rural Ireland if its like flogging a dead horse (as the saying goes) - maybe if the shops in rural town have had their day instead of being boarded up then maybe the better use of them would be done up as apartments and made into places where people can live instead .. it would also be prettier than seeing them boarded up empty and dilapidating ..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    so what do we do with existing shops then in rural Ireland if its like flogging a dead horse (as the saying goes) - maybe if the shops in rural town have had their day instead of being boarded up then maybe the better use of them would be done up as apartments and made into places where people can live instead .. it would also be prettier than seeing them boarded up empty and dilapidating ..

    The shops need to open longer and have keener pricing.
    Personally, I don't mind paying a small premium in a shop where I can try things on and get advice, but it can't be too big.
    Also shops need to be open longer to suit those who work.
    I don't want to be giving up my Saturday to go shopping.

    Call of the Wild is a good example of what I mean. Not open late enough and too expensive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    _Brian wrote: »
    The model of the bustling rural town is dead. There isn’t the employed population locally any more, we’re following the model Europe did and our population is becoming urbanised and condensed areound cities.

    True for many rural towns but not all. For example Wexford town and Gorey seem to be fairly full of life and smaller shops whilst the likes of Enniscorthy & Arlow are fading.

    But I wouldn't be relying on Minister Ring to fix the problem, he's possibly more interested in turning rural Ireland (Mayo anyway) into a theme park, a place where urban dwellers come and get away from the city. Which is fine for the few busy months but will hardly sustain the sort of thriving business the OP talks about.

    As for shops staying open longer, all well & good but that's extra wages!

    One area that this government is falling down is the flip side of online retailing. That is a business model that could help rural Ireland. But how can you sell your farmhouse cheese online with your new fancy broadband (hopefully) if there's no local post offices to post your goods from?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    a good online store will do exactly the same ... pop up a few ads of some really special offers in your face with a good price and with a load of people it could end up as a impulse buy from that site

    I'm involved in both online and physical retail.

    Pop up suggestions is a big no in online and sees a large jump in abandoned carts - hence you don't see it much any more.

    There's also a huge cost in online that high street doesn't have - free returns. You'll see a pullback on this next year as the cost has meant profits dwindling as returns are running at over 30% of sales in some stores.

    That is the tsunami of online retail and may hit some very hard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭horseofstone


    Graham wrote: »
    Mrs Miggins isn't stupid though. Unbeknown to you, she's doing a roaring trade in retro-fashion from her online store on Etsy while driving sales from a rapidly growing Instagram following.

    Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium ! Where is that? Are they nationwide !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,914 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    We used to have markets.

    Then we had shops.

    Now we have online.

    Urban centres will be places to spend time, read, eat, meet, work. As homes get smaller communal spaces will become more popular.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Rodin wrote: »
    The shops need to open longer and have keener pricing.
    Personally, I don't mind paying a small premium in a shop where I can try things on and get advice, but it can't be too big.
    Also shops need to be open longer to suit those who work.
    I don't want to be giving up my Saturday to go shopping.

    Call of the Wild is a good example of what I mean. Not open late enough and too expensive.

    few and far between these days .. if there were more customers like you that wouldnt mind paying a small premium then there would not be a problem and these local shops would be doing really well ... but alas with most shoppers these days price is king! - over everything else ... convenience could be second best - or vice-versa .

    I am not even talking about poor people without a lot in their pocket wanting to save money - i think with a lot, even with people who can afford it it just seems to give a lot of people a euphoria feeling if they have just bought something and saved money in the process!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    T... how can you sell your farmhouse cheese online with your new fancy broadband (hopefully) if there's no local post offices to post your goods from?

    um use couriers and other logistic companies to deliver your wares ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    I'm involved in both online and physical retail.

    Pop up suggestions is a big no in online and sees a large jump in abandoned carts - hence you don't see it much any more.

    There's also a huge cost in online that high street doesn't have - free returns. You'll see a pullback on this next year as the cost has meant profits dwindling as returns are running at over 30% of sales in some stores.

    That is the tsunami of online retail and may hit some very hard.

    that could be re-worked couldnt it? - no free returns simply because the customer didnt want it or change their mind ... if they do, charge a "re-stocking fee" and customer pays for return postage ... then that should get back the profits . With some people they might even say "if I have to pay to send back this Item I may as well keep it" and not even bother returning it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    few and far between these days .. if there were more customers like you that wouldnt mind paying a small premium then there would not be a problem and these local shops would be doing really well ... but alas with most shoppers these days price is king! - over everything else ... convenience could be second best - or vice-versa .
    !

    You seem to think retail is in the doldrums.

    It's not.

    Retail rents are still rising in premium areas. Retailers are generally profitable.

    Naturally some areas will suffer as people change habits, but overall the retail market is strong.

    Now, the uk is a different story. Far too many shops, esp retail parks. Massive consumer worry on brexit and a huge population of very poorly paid people and a very low social welfare payment.

    All those are uk specific issues.

    Over here the number of retail closures is at a multi year low this year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    For ages, I used to spend a few hours every Saturday going around Dublin's record shops and spending at least €100 each time. As the years went on, it seemed got harder to buy new releases (particularly new reissues). I remember one particular weekend in 2006 looking for the new Scott Walker album only to be told "don't have it", "not out yet", "we can order it" everywhere I went. That night, I started using Amazon and other online retailers and never looked back.

    No hipster or judgmental staff, you get the records / CDs on time, the prices are more competitive and the customer service is excellent. Nowadays I will go into record shops if I am passing and occasionally will buy stuff (particularly second hand) but never ever will they be my first port of call again.

    Same with buying DVDs / BDs of films or television series and books. Shops here rarely have the stuff I want, and if they do, it's much more expensive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    You seem to think retail is in the doldrums.

    It's not.

    Retail rents are still rising in premium areas. Retailers are generally profitable.

    Naturally some areas will suffer as people change habits, but overall the retail market is strong.

    Now, the uk is a different story. Far too many shops, esp retail parks. Massive consumer worry on brexit and a huge population of very poorly paid people and a very low social welfare payment.

    All those are uk specific issues.

    Over here the number of retail closures is at a multi year low this year.

    it depends what areas of the country you are talking about ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Oh how I would love to have power and authority to walk around my local town centre and say things like "you, you and you - you belong in a just out of town location or retail park ... you, I dunno what you are bothering for you might as well shut up shop now, and you, what have you even got a shop for? you can do what you do online now ... and you, you and you can stay where you are" :)

    that would shake things up for the better


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    But how can you sell your farmhouse cheese online with your new fancy broadband (hopefully) if there's no local post offices to post your goods from?
    An Post has priced itself out of the market.

    It's cheaper to get tat from China delivered to your door than send a postcard to someone on the other side of the city, never mind a parcel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    An Post has priced itself out of the market.

    It's cheaper to get tat from China delivered to your door than send a postcard to someone on the other side of the city, never mind a parcel.

    wife had to post some calendars to UK and one to Australia - I think they cost roughly the same - she tried commenting that surely the UK one should be cheaper than posting to australia but it fell on deaf ears - then she put 2 calendars in one large envelope to same address and I think they charged her near on what it would cost posting them seperately - they dont seem to be a cheap as they used to for their services


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    moonage wrote: »
    Hey grandad, I use a 3D printer to produce milk, bread, bricks, mortar etc.

    I found out thru an accidental spillage some time ago that my printer is not very lactose tolerant


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    nuac wrote: »
    I found out thru an accidental spillage some time ago that my printer is not very lactose tolerant

    Probably made in Asia.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    nuac wrote: »
    I found out thru an accidental spillage some time ago that my printer is not very lactose tolerant

    no, ... I reckon its just liquid intolerant ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    An Post has priced itself out of the market.

    It's cheaper to get tat from China delivered to your door than send a postcard to someone on the other side of the city, never mind a parcel.

    The person sending tat from China is sending hundreds of pieces of tat.

    Send hundreds of pieces with an post and you get exceptional rates - I can get a 20kg parcel collected at 4pm and delivered to remote Donegal the next day for under €4 including tracking, signature and insurance. But I send over 500 parcels a week.
    wife had to post some calendars to UK and one to Australia - I think they cost roughly the same - she tried commenting that surely the UK one should be cheaper than posting to australia but it fell on deaf ears - then she put 2 calendars in one large envelope to same address and I think they charged her near on what it would cost posting them seperately - they dont seem to be a cheap as they used to for their services
    Think of what the difference is?
    Only a longer time in the cargo hold of an aircraft.

    Every other cost aspect is similar, so there shouldn't be much difference.
    Where an post do suffer is that they don't have a sea/road service to UK and Europe - that means they are not competitive for parcels to those markets


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    um use couriers and other logistic companies to deliver your wares ?

    Um.. do you think couriers want to operate any different from An Post? They're happy out if you drive your farmhouse cheese orders in the 10, 20 miles and more to their nearest depot. People (and An Post) forget there's two sides to online retailing, the customer ordering and the business get the orders into a delivery system.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Argos and An Post could make a lot of business as pickup points. Argos do it already in the UK for eBay.
    They already do. My Parcel Pickup - available at any postpoint location and used extensively in rural areas.
    McGaggs wrote: »
    Websites on the EU are already supposed to add the vat rate of whatever country they deliver to. You'll notice the price changes on Amazon when you change between your real address and your parcel motel address.
    Only if your sales exceed €35,000 to Ireland
    BarryD2 wrote: »
    One area that this government is falling down is the flip side of online retailing. That is a business model that could help rural Ireland. But how can you sell your farmhouse cheese online with your new fancy broadband (hopefully) if there's no local post offices to post your goods from?
    The only people going to the post office with parcels are one off consumers. If you have 40+ parcels a week, an post will collect from you every day and give you bulk rates, label printer and address software.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    The only people going to the post office with parcels are one off consumers. If you have 40+ parcels a week, an post will collect from you every day and give you bulk rates, label printer and address software.

    That's not how small rural businesses start and get going. Maybe your typical farmhouse cheese type enterprise will aspire to 40+ parcels a week when they get established. If the government is serious about facilitating small rural businesses like above, then they should be making sure that a state run postal service offers a service that is practical as well as cost effective. Practical is not driving 20 mile round trips to put online sales into An Post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,207 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    What the OP and many others are forgetting is that people LIKE shopping.

    Normal stores will never go away because they can offer an experience an online store can never offer.

    If you exclude anything travel related, online shopping represents about 7-8% of the retail market. In the UK which is the world leader in online shopping (yep bigger than USA) it is about 12%.

    It is estimated that the UK will rise to 16-18% in the next few years and Ireland will be at about 12%.


    In the eighties, catalogue shopping accounted for close to 8% of retail sales in the UK, so whilst online is higher, its not the game changer people think it is.

    Retail does need to change, but that's a natural evolution. Have a look at Lifestyle Sports in Cork (their new store), that simply cannot be replicated online.

    So whilst radio did not kill newspapers and TV did not kill radio, online will not kill retail stores.

    Many will need to adapt, but they will.
    I disagree with most of that! I hate shopping. As for lifestyle, if I happen to want a pair of runners, it's so much easier to check the lifestyle website than to do into the store. You'll have a bigger choice of stuff too, easier to check the sale items and it's fast delivery. You'll have your stuff the next day. Lifestyle is one of the better irish websites.
    Certain things it's better to go into the store, but I'd never go into a store and buy something like a TV. Back in the old days you'd go into Power City and just pick the one you can afford. Now you can do a bit of research, know what's good for the money and find who sells it cheapest.
    The stores will never die, you're right.
    wakka12 wrote: »
    Personally I hate internet shopping and nothing beats browsing things in real life, buying it there and then. Ill only buy online if I can't find something in town. Theres many other forms of commerce in towns centres that aren't shopping though, hairdressers cafes pubs etc
    The idea of walking around town and not finding what you want is just a waste of time though. Yesterday I needed something fairly specific, a pair of kids pink football boots in childrens size 11. Fúck walking around town looking for that. Amazon, nice pair of Puma ones, €20 delivered. Would have cost about €7 for parking alone and a good chance I'd come back with nothing if I'd had gone into town.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    poster who mentioned an post being priced out is spot on, you cant compete with Chinese nowadays no chance at all, most stuff is half in not like 1/5 of the price you pay in your local brick mortar store, sure it takes long to get stuff delivered but if you got month and few bucks its free shipping.


    its not only killing smaller shops but even online if you look at likes of ebay - you have people re-selling stuff from china and usually few pound euro they make its trough shipping costs attached, and most stores from china offer same items at half price plus free shipping, you can get some deals in EU but catch always is that in many cases shipping is way to expensive.


    needed small specialized strip recently that would fit into match box, on ebay it was 1$ with free shipping, but since i needed oem and specific dimensions had to order of uk vendor, which was 11 pounds+ vat + shipping total cost 30euros :cool: and were speaking of tiny silicone strip that would fit into regular envelope, and company from uk used like half gallon sized box put it inside envelope on top and whoever was packing made complete balls of it as it got all bent up, if it wasnt for special dimensions i bet i would of gotten 5 of them free shipped from china just to make it fair.


    Hell even my own business is based on online sales and honestly theres no chance to compete with Chinese, same is happening in US and most EU, so its not local issue.


    making matters worse an post is actually closing down more post offices and price increase where domestic registered mail costs 10nner for envelope is killing any small business.

    poster who said get 400-500 a week parcels thats the killing point unless you can do bulk like Chinese and have product thats constantly in demand, theres no fair chance to compete otherwise to get up to those numbers regularly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    whilst maybe the large well named well known shops will still be around for some time to come - i still think very soon the small locally owned shops trying to compete with large well known high street shops and online shopping will be extinct pretty soon i think. its a shame and all that but thats what its heading to .. scrub that, its already happening and been happening for quite a while . thats why we are in some of these rural towns with boarded up shops and empty retail units all over the place


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    whilst maybe the large well named well known shops will still be around for some time to come - i still think very soon the small locally owned shops trying to compete with large well known high street shops and online shopping will be extinct pretty soon i think. its a shame and all that but thats what its heading to .. scrub that, its already happening and been happening for quite a while . thats why we are in some of these rural towns with boarded up shops and empty retail units all over the place

    Most of the large shops will disappear in the next few years. They're mainly UK companies, and they're mostly not doing well. What is likely to survive is shops that give an experience, it sell something that you need to see or try before you buy. Small towns can't sustain these businesses as they need economies of scale to make them viable. That's not going to happen on the outskirts of a small town .


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    McGaggs wrote: »
    Most of the large shops will disappear in the next few years. They're mainly UK companies, and they're mostly not doing well. What is likely to survive is shops that give an experience, it sell something that you need to see or try before you buy. Small towns can't sustain these businesses as they need economies of scale to make them viable. That's not going to happen on the outskirts of a small town .

    really not doing well? ... now if you would have said they might disappear because of Brexit and the difficulties that might present a UK chain operating in a european country I could believe that


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,040 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    really not doing well? ... now if you would have said they might disappear because of Brexit and the difficulties that might present a UK chain operating in a european country I could believe that


    Tesco. Debenhams. UK high street chains are suffering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    really not doing well? ... now if you would have said they might disappear because of Brexit and the difficulties that might present a UK chain operating in a european country I could believe that

    Next, Mothercare, House of Fraser, BHS, Debenhams, Dixon's/Carphone Warehouse/Currys/PC World, M&S have all had problems lately. A quick Google should let you add more to that list.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Tesco. Debenhams. UK high street chains are suffering.

    +

    Mothercare
    Homebase
    Debenhams
    House of Fraser
    M & S
    Toys R Us
    Claire’s
    Maplin
    Jaeger

    The list goes on.....


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