How can Brick & Mortar shops compete with Online Shopping?

tabby aspreme · 27-09-2018 6:14pm

One advantage with conventional shopping is, you don't part with your money until the goods are in your hand , I bought fancy work boots online last week, money immediately taken from my account, found out yesterday they are not in stock and won't be for another two weeks.

Andy From Sligo · 27-09-2018 6:14pm

Greyfox wrote: »

The problem here is idiots come into the shop at 5.55 and the staff are forced to work for free till 6.10 which is not fair on the staff. If you feel pressured you should of got to the shop earlier

... and there is the 'attitude' right there of some shops .. and if they (or the staff rather) feel that way about customers then (harsh as it sounds) they deserve to close down or not have any customers!

I used to work in a shop years ago before I came to Ireland ... well it was a building firm and i worked on the electrical trade counter and it had a shop part and although it was written into our contract "hours 8am to 6pm - hour for lunch" there was no problem at the staff in our shop being flexible - if it ever got to the stage but it didnt anyway but if it got to the stage that it was 5 to 6 and we were being rude and ushering the customers out our deparment manager would be right down on us like a ton of bricks ... most probably would get a verbal or written warning for it .

in my particular case , I wasnt a very good time keeper every morning - a lot of mornings I got in at 10 past 8 .. but a lot of nights I wouldnt leave til the last customer left and cashing up was after we shut the door after 6pm - but hold on I hear you say , our work contract was 8-6pm ... well me and my team in the shop didnt mind being flexible , was bloody grateful for the job and valued customers because they were paying our wages .

Some shop workers in Ireland have it bloody easy - roll in sometimes late in the morning, sometimes late after lunch, "cant be in today I have to go to a funeral" - "cant come in I am waiting for the electricity guy to call around and ive got to be at home" - "I've got the flu (normally its a cold or just a bad cold)- I have heard this and seen this when i have been shopping in shops in Ireland .. sometimes i wonder how some of these shops are even stayed open when i hear some of the excuses ... and this is us hearing this as well, they say it out on the shop floor for the customers to hear - not taking it to the bosses office or talking in private , some of the excuses I have heard , its a bloody joke

- oh and wehen you are trying to be served in Dunnes or Tesco or waiting to pay and the member of staff is on the phone talking to their mate "oh ... and then do you know what he said to me then? " - "thats 2euro 40" (no please/thank you kiss my ass) - "Yeah anyway what was I saying?... after 2 in the morning we got back I was out of it man...."

I dont know what it is ... I have an inkling , in the UK places where I used to work , I think the workers had respect for their bosses and managers - sure you could still have a laugh and that ... but you knew they were the boss and what they said went - but over here in Ireland I sometimes feel the managers and bosses seem to be on the same level and the staff are not scared of their bosses or showing them respect and are all 'pally' with each other - and thats why some times if someone phones up a customer services department and they are getting no-where and ask to speak to a manager that the manager will give the "sorry I will have a word with my collegue and it will not happen again" and then after you put down the manager and the colleugue are having a joke about it - in fact i was in a DIY shop once in ireland and a customer came in and wasnt happy with the shop worker and asked to speak to the manager , and the assistant manager came out and was appologising profusely to the customer and when the customer had left they checked he was definately gone and then they both burst out laughing and the assistant manager said to the bloke on the till "dont worry about that eejit, he is always coming in complaining what an arséhole!" ... and theres me looking for something on the shelves and I could hear all this - think there were others in the shop .

Anyway yes , some of the staff in these shops are wicked ... you dont get a please or a thankyou or they wont even try and help you out or order something in ... and then when their shop does close down in the end then people will cry out that shops are closing down in the area and that its terrible ...

ToddyDoody · 27-09-2018 6:39pm

They can compete by selling drugs on the side. Wasn't there something about that recently?

prinzeugen · 27-09-2018 10:55pm

horseofstone wrote: »

It makes me wonder ,what the future holds, technology has advanced so much in the last 15 years.self driving electrical cars to come,more automation in industry thus reducing job opportunities for people.where will we be by 2050 ?

We will still be pretty much where we are now. Technology has stalled a bit.

Self driving vehicles are still decades away from being reliable enough, delivering stuff by drone is unlikely to take off, automaton in industry and millions being put out of work is never going to happen while most of us are alive.

Even mobile phones are at the limit of what can be done with them. The only improvements you see in new models is a better camera or graphics. Thats it.

So they have to come up with solutions to problems that don't exist like applepay etc to try and keep you hooked on tech.

Shops will survive. There will always a need for them as people will always use cash.

Some idiot in the UK thought it would be great to make the pub he bought in the middle of nowhere 100% cashless. He has had to close countless times or give meals for free as the machines keep failing.

Graham · 27-09-2018 11:04pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium shtuff is all coming back in fashion (for the third time) dontcha know? - trouble is they shut at 5.30pm (with an hour for lunch - closed mondays) and thats no good when someone wakes up at 2am and has the urge to buy something from Mrs Miggins Fine Fashion Emporium ... because she is shut! ... you snooze you loose!

Mrs Miggins isn't stupid though. Unbeknown to you, she's doing a roaring trade in retro-fashion from her online store on Etsy while driving sales from a rapidly growing Instagram following.

prinzeugen · 27-09-2018 11:24pm

riclad wrote: »

The manager of a cafe in georges st was interviewed on radio, he said when they were sucessful ,the rent was raised ,by 200 or 300 per cent ,the small profit they made mean they had to close down ,maybe high rents
mean we only only left with shops like dealz, uk chain stores ,pennys etc
Many streets in dublin look like any street in the uk .
Its things like small shops and pubs run by irish people that make dublin different from any uk city.
Online stores pay less tax and insurance and dont have to pay high rent.
Maplins and peats closed they cant compete with online shopping.

Most of these small cafes/coffee shops/restaurants are started by people that no nothing about what they are doing. Look at the whole hipster area of Georges St, Wexford St.

Most of these places close after a few months only to be replaced by another. Property owners would rather have long term tenants like Dealz etc than cafes that are going to go bust after a few weeks or months.

Maplins could have survived if it had downsized years ago. Smaller shops with fewer staff. They didn't do it and paid the price.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-09-2018 12:08am

Argos and An Post could make a lot of business as pickup points. Argos do it already in the UK for eBay.

If you are getting a sealed package that is unlikely to need repair or returning, like a book or disc, then it doesn't really matter where you get it.

Maplin died because they were selling cheap Chinese tat at multiples of the price. If they'd sold quality kit like Radionics or Farnell it might have been different.

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 12:19am

Graham wrote: »

Mrs Miggins isn't stupid though. Unbeknown to you, she's doing a roaring trade in retro-fashion from her online store on Etsy while driving sales from a rapidly growing Instagram following.

the clever bricks and mortar shop owner these days run online retailing alongside their physical shop, harvesting the best of both worlds (my wife works in one that does this and they do it well) .. but not all shops do this

sligojoek · 28-09-2018 12:20am

I ordered some stuff today on amazon. All told it's costing me 35e delivered . If I was to drive around a small town it would cost me 50e plus petrol. Do the maths.

L.Jenkins · 28-09-2018 12:26am

For the likes of Aldi, Lidl, Supervalu, Tesco and Dunnes to become more competitive, I know they offer the ability to shop online in some cases (Tesco delivers your online shop), each retailer could invest more in the ability to shop online and deliver. Would be handy for those living in the arsehole of nowhere or people who simply can't get away from the house for whatever reason.

Shops and Retailers need to begin investing more in online activities.

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 12:31am

sligojoek wrote: »

I ordered some stuff today on amazon. All told it's costing me 35e delivered . If I was to drive around a small town it would cost me 50e plus petrol. Do the maths.

if you said this to a local trader and he said (on the verge of crying his eyes out) "well for that 50eur I have to pay my rent, pay my staff, pay my heating and lighting pay my rates, pay my taxes, pay for advertising and other associated costs and pay for the actual item out of all that ... would you be sympathetic to him?

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 12:41am

the issue of where the VAT goes ... well if you order online from UK for example I think the UK standard rate VAT on goods is 20% and that money goes to the UK government .... the Irish Vat rate is 23%

It would be controversial and unpopular , and I know I wouldnt like to pay a difference , but should we pay a difference if we order from the UK (3%) difference that gets transferred to the Irish government - or even when online ordering pay the net price without the VAT rate at all added on and pay the full 23% to the government ? - they most probably have thought about this loss (where they are loosing out) already when someone buys from a uk online retailer

prinzeugen · 28-09-2018 12:46am

L.Jenkins wrote: »

For the likes of Aldi, Lidl, Supervalu, Tesco and Dunnes to become more competitive, I know they offer the ability to shop online in some cases (Tesco delivers your online shop), each retailer could invest more in the ability to shop online and deliver. Would be handy for those living in the arsehole of nowhere or people who simply can't get away from the house for whatever reason.

Shops and Retailers need to begin investing more in online activities.

Unless they were delivering to multiple addresses in a rural location it is not viable.

Why spend an hour delivering €50 of shopping to the back of beyond when the could spend an hour delivering €500 worth of shopping to more built up areas.

It was the same when I was a motorbike courier. We all hated going into the North East of Dublin. It would take ages to pick-up/deliver 2-3 items whereas you could do 10-15 pick-ups and drop offs anywhere else in the city in the same amount of time and earn more money.

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 12:51am

L.Jenkins wrote: »

For the likes of Aldi, Lidl, Supervalu, Tesco and Dunnes to become more competitive, I know they offer the ability to shop online in some cases (Tesco delivers your online shop), each retailer could invest more in the ability to shop online and deliver. Would be handy for those living in the arsehole of nowhere or people who simply can't get away from the house for whatever reason.

Shops and Retailers need to begin investing more in online activities.

agree - they also need something to fall back on . if shop is quiet you have online shopping to keep you going.. and if the online shopping is quiet people can always come physically into your shop to pick up the item .. ideal for "people who just dont do online shopping" (sorry to generalize but that will normally be old people and technophobe people)

road_high · 28-09-2018 1:20am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why are shops open when most people are working?

I could never figure that out. I've worked in many places and bar the lunchtime rush, you don't see the same type of shopper on the weekdays that you see at the weekend.

Even if shops opened 11 to 7, at least people would have a chance to pick something up after work, instead of thinking "oh its Monday, I'll have to wait till Thursday to buy that thing when the shop is open late, but if I buy online I'll have it by Wednesday... "

There's a place nearby that sells coal cheap. They're open 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I'd love to but coal from them, but I'd have to take time off work to pick it up

So true. There’s a few traditional shops I really like but they only open office hours so rarely make it in to them. Makes no sense that the majority of shop opening hours coincide almost exactly with the majority of workers hours. It’s little wonder busy people go online to get what they want whenever they want it.
I prefer bricks and mortar shops too personally. Can try on things and get a feel for a product

Capt'n Midnight · 28-09-2018 1:27am

L.Jenkins wrote: »

For the likes of Aldi, Lidl, Supervalu, Tesco and Dunnes to become more competitive, I know they offer the ability to shop online in some cases (Tesco delivers your online shop), each retailer could invest more in the ability to shop online and deliver. Would be handy for those living in the arsehole of nowhere or people who simply can't get away from the house for whatever reason.

Shops and Retailers need to begin investing more in online activities.

Aldi / Lidl do online stuff in the UK.

I've bought two TV's off Tesco online.

Because Tesco UK online were selling the same model for €100 less than Tesco Ireland.
Parcel Wizard are great. TV delivered from NI to work for less than AnPost charge for a 250g packet.

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 1:44am

when i moved to Ireland 27 years ago (rural ireland) small little local shops didnt think nothing of having someone knock on the shop owners front door at 11pm for a tin of paint and a pint of milk and a loaf of bread - and the shop owner obliged ... should'nt think that happens these days ... or it might who knows?

Irish Guitarist · 28-09-2018 6:32am

I can't say I find many bargains online but if I did I'd buy them. I'm not going to waste money in shops if I don't have to out of some moral obligation.

There used to be a record shop here that had no idea how to store CDs. I gave up buying from them because every second CD I bought was so covered in dust it had gotten scratched. Scratched CDs aren't that common an occurrence but these people were experts at destroying them.

There was a clothes shop here that I bought a pair of jeans from years ago. When I was paying at the counter the girl knocked a cup of coffee all over me. She just tutted at the last girl leaving coffee there. It didn't even dawn on her to say sorry to me. I had to walk home with coffee all over my jeans (the ones I was wearing).

Both these shops have closed down and I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for them. I don't owe shops anything.

cbyrd · 28-09-2018 7:46am

Lots of smaller shops now do online services too. For someone like me who finds it difficult to physically get to a shop, online shopping is far easier. Instead of having to get a nurse in to take care of one of my children, walking around town for 2 hours trying to source a certain product, on to Amazon, type it in and a day or 2 later there it is.
It's a no brainer. Plus it so much cheaper.

ednwireland · 28-09-2018 7:52am

Hmm interesting , most of my clothes I buy online in sales, order on discount picked up three decent shirts from debenhams less than 20 euro each.
Shoes clarks.co.uk over 50 % off on every pair.
Bought a Donegal tweed jacket on sale locally. But guys know me got a good price.
Chainsaw bought locally but again their prices are competitive and they sell on line.
Petrol multi tool from an online crowd in UK at a price I wanted to pay.
Biodegradable chainsaw oil local shops refuse to stock it I've asked. so bought online

I tend to work late so I don't want to spend my spare time shopping.

nice_guy80 · 28-09-2018 7:59am

maybe if the government reduced the cost of operating a business?

rates, insurance, electricity

Mountainsandh · 28-09-2018 8:19am

A lot of retail in industrial zones of towns in France seem to be doing just fine.

I think the town centre retail has gone too fancy. I'm not looking for fancy. I don't want music and an experience for a higher price.
I'm looking for a specific thing that I've seen online, my choice is pretty narrowed down before I step inside the shop. I'm willing to pay a little more for getting it immediately, not a lot more.

I need the shop to have a reasonable selection of items that fit my specs (cheap/middle/high quality range) in stock, and for a reasonable price.

Get rid of the fancy shelving, lighting, props, high rent, window displays, and this outdated notion that a sales assistant will sway me into buying something or buying more.

A simple premises comfortable enough to browse in (lit enough, warm enough, space enough), plenty of choice of items and I can touch and see with my own eyes, a sales person that is trained enough that when I give my specs they pull out said selection quickly and efficiently, and possibly can give advice if I need it.
Easy, free, and close parking and access.

That's all I need.

Town centres may retain a few boutiques for souvenirs, books, gift items that benefit from a nice display, other than that restaurants and cafes.

Let all the rest be in the outskirts and more to the point, that'll make it worth my while driving 25 minutes out to purchase something I can feel and touch immediately rather than shop online.

edit : also, the stock is important.
In the 2 small towns that are near me, things are not in stock "but we can get it in for you next week". I just spent a fiver driving down, parking, and valuable time. I ain't doing it all over again next week for the privilege of paying more. If you're selling something that doesn't go out of date, have stock.

The J Stands for Jay · 28-09-2018 8:23am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i know, .. but then you will have us mere mortal shopper being blamed for empty units, boarded up shops because we want to buy stuff like a chuck key for a fraction of the price ... "but you should be paying the 9.50 what your local shop is charging ,we are always being told, because you are keeping that shop open and people in jobs and helping the local economy ... whereby if you pay the fraction of the prices your hard earned money is most probably even going out of the country, let alone not supporting local shops and keeping them open ... thats a terrible thing to do!"

The products are pretty much all manufactured abroad. Why should €8.50 of the Chuck key price go to a lad who has given you nothing other than fast delivery? Actually, I wonder what next day delivery on the Chuck key online would have cost?

The J Stands for Jay · 28-09-2018 8:31am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if you said this to a local trader and he said (on the verge of crying his eyes out) "well for that 50eur I have to pay my rent, pay my staff, pay my heating and lighting pay my rates, pay my taxes, pay for advertising and other associated costs and pay for the actual item out of all that ... would you be sympathetic to him?

So, should I be worse off through no fault of my own, or should the business owner be worse off due to their inability to manage costs?

The J Stands for Jay · 28-09-2018 8:36am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

the issue of where the VAT goes ... well if you order online from UK for example I think the UK standard rate VAT on goods is 20% and that money goes to the UK government .... the Irish Vat rate is 23%

It would be controversial and unpopular , and I know I wouldnt like to pay a difference , but should we pay a difference if we order from the UK (3%) difference that gets transferred to the Irish government - or even when online ordering pay the net price without the VAT rate at all added on and pay the full 23% to the government ? - they most probably have thought about this loss (where they are loosing out) already when someone buys from a uk online retailer

Websites on the EU are already supposed to add the vat rate of whatever country they deliver to. You'll notice the price changes on Amazon when you change between your real address and your parcel motel address.

sligojoek · 28-09-2018 8:48am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if you said this to a local trader and he said (on the verge of crying his eyes out) "well for that 50eur I have to pay my rent, pay my staff, pay my heating and lighting pay my rates, pay my taxes, pay for advertising and other associated costs and pay for the actual item out of all that ... would you be sympathetic to him?

I'd rather 15 quid in my pocket than someone elses. Full stop.

Mountainsandh · 28-09-2018 8:50am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if you said this to a local trader and he said (on the verge of crying his eyes out) "well for that 50eur I have to pay my rent, pay my staff, pay my heating and lighting pay my rates, pay my taxes, pay for advertising and other associated costs and pay for the actual item out of all that ... would you be sympathetic to him?

I wouldn't. This is business. If your business model is not viable anymore you change it, you don't cry for charity.

Move to the outskirts. Have decent, orderly shop, without the frills. Hire 2 staff instead of 4, and have them pack and process online orders when the shop floor is quiet, or/and have them train themselves in the products they sell so when a bricks and mortar customer turns up, they're impressed by their advice and service.
People do their research online before they buy, how is it that it seems still acceptable to have sales staff who know less than a potential customer about what they sell ?
Happens alllll the time !

enricoh · 28-09-2018 9:00am

I think any business with a turnover of less than say 100k shouldn't have to pay rates.
I was in Roscommon and Leitrim for a few days recently and some of the towns we're ghost towns. The council should be giving the shop owners a grant instead of taking rates.
On the outskirts of one of the towns here was a heap of exercise equipment installed at huge expense no doubt in a park where two alcos were the only ones using it as a bench! Great use of the rates!

Pod123 · 28-09-2018 9:25am

Sometimes it’s hard to beat on line shopping if both are out at work.

Priced a ladder in the local hard ware store and then priced same on line. Bought on line cheaper and delivered to door for less. Local hardware store was dearer and I would have to collect.

I think it was better when the big retail outlets were closed on Sunday it gave the smaller shops a chance and people still survived.

Perhaps it’s the way forward and the youth like it know the wife and daughter do.

....... · 28-09-2018 9:35am

I just wouldnt know where to go for a lot of the things I buy online.

Recently a girl in work recommended a particular brand of make up to me for a specific item and said she'd bought it in the airport so didnt know who would be stockists locally. I did try Boots and a local chemist but they all looked at me blankly, so I ordered it online (from an Irish pharmacy who is smart enough to sell online) and had it the next day. I certainly wasnt going to drive around every local pharmacy for miles in the hopes of finding it.

Same goes for a lot of books and jewellery. I have no patience for browsing in loads of shops on my feet when I can idly google for things I want.

For me price does have something to do with it but its more about instant availability of an item that i would not know where to find otherwise.

L.Jenkins · 28-09-2018 11:34am

....... wrote: »

I just wouldnt know where to go for a lot of the things I buy online.

Recently a girl in work recommended a particular brand of make up to me for a specific item and said she'd bought it in the airport so didnt know who would be stockists locally. I did try Boots and a local chemist but they all looked at me blankly, so I ordered it online (from an Irish pharmacy who is smart enough to sell online) and had it the next day. I certainly wasnt going to drive around every local pharmacy for miles in the hopes of finding it.

Same goes for a lot of books and jewellery. I have no patience for browsing in loads of shops on my feet when I can idly google for things I want.

For me price does have something to do with it but its more about instant availability of an item that i would not know where to find otherwise.

This is what the internet and online shopping is doing to the retailer in Ireland. I'm of two minds about it. I'd love to see our local retailers supported, while supporting local jobs. However, there's many a business that could have both a physical and online presence. Some retailers might even be suited to an online presence only.

No one nowadays wants to spend hours trawling through shops and driving around town to find 1 or 2 items. As another poster mentioned, too lazy to quote the post, shopping online with Tesco, Centra, Supervalu etc. is great, but not worth their while to offer deliveries to remote rural areas unless there are a large number of orders/deliveries in the area, or if it is just as easy to pick up the online grocery shopping order at a later time. I.e. a family or single parent who hasn't the time or patience to be carting young children around a shop.

I suppose online retailers are the way to go. A previous company I worked for suffered greatly and went into receivership and had to close all stores. They now over sales online only, so not computer repairs or servicing is offered any more.

The current company I work for sells online through a number of channels and our own site. We don't have a warehouse for stock and delivering products to customers are dealt with by shipping directly from the supplier to the customer or through an intermediary warehouse/courier set up.

wyf437gn6btzue · 28-09-2018 12:34pm

I`ll put the whole brick & mortar vs online into my perspective....

I have a business that`s totally online and I work from home, my average order total comes to about €100 per order. I can get customers through adwords with fairly decent conversion rates and each order is mostly hassle free to deal with. In the 9 months I`m running this particular business I have had one person from the local area ring to ask can they visit and order in person (they didn't even turn up).

I was recently looking at offices/units in the town I live. For rent, rates, bills etc you`d be looking at least €2k p/m for a smaller, more out of the town office. So for that to make sense I`d have to have at least 20-25 orders per month from people in the locality to justify having a physical location (which Is unlikely). Then to deal with the extra orders I`d probably need an extra staff so I`d need even more additional orders to justify that. Then you have the liability that`s involved with having customers visiting, the list goes on.

So for me (and probably a lot of other people with similar businesses like mine) it makes no sense whatsoever to have a physical location for a business that does a good turnover online.

Anyway, that`s my perspective on the whole brick/mortar vs online argument and why a lot of shop units lay unused in towns across Ireland.

Geuze · 28-09-2018 1:30pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

the issue of where the VAT goes ... well if you order online from UK for example I think the UK standard rate VAT on goods is 20% and that money goes to the UK government .... the Irish Vat rate is 23%

It would be controversial and unpopular , and I know I wouldnt like to pay a difference , but should we pay a difference if we order from the UK (3%) difference that gets transferred to the Irish government - or even when online ordering pay the net price without the VAT rate at all added on and pay the full 23% to the government ? - they most probably have thought about this loss (where they are loosing out) already when someone buys from a uk online retailer

With Amazon, you do pay Irish 23% VAT, even if goods delivered from UK warehouse.

Geuze · 28-09-2018 1:34pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if you said this to a local trader and he said (on the verge of crying his eyes out) "well for that 50eur I have to pay my rent, pay my staff, pay my heating and lighting pay my rates, pay my taxes, pay for advertising and other associated costs and pay for the actual item out of all that ... would you be sympathetic to him?

Note that many Irish businesses have massive gross profit margins, so I have little sympathy for them.

A pub-restaurant in Sligo has a 74% gross margin, leaving plenty for a generous net margin.

Another restaurant charges 17.25 for pizzas, massive margins there.

Some pubs manage up to 68% gross margin on drinks.

Ace2007 · 28-09-2018 1:34pm

enricoh wrote: »

I think any business with a turnover of less than say 100k shouldn't have to pay rates.
I was in Roscommon and Leitrim for a few days recently and some of the towns we're ghost towns. The council should be giving the shop owners a grant instead of taking rates.
On the outskirts of one of the towns here was a heap of exercise equipment installed at huge expense no doubt in a park where two alcos were the only ones using it as a bench! Great use of the rates!

The shop owners could just get a loan off the credit unions if they really wanted to make their business models work.

Just being curious what shops are you talking about that can't build on online version of their business as well as on the ground?

Geuze · 28-09-2018 1:34pm

Enzo Brave Macrame wrote: »

I was recently looking at offices/units in the town I live. For rent, rates, bills etc you`d be looking at least €2k p/m for a smaller, more out of the town office. So for that to make sense I`d have to have at least 20-25 orders per month from people in the locality to justify having a physical location (which Is unlikely). Then to deal with the extra orders I`d probably need an extra staff so I`d need even more additional orders to justify that. Then you have the liability that`s involved with having customers visiting, the list goes on.

Yes, comm rents are way too high.

mickdw · 28-09-2018 1:53pm

Local shops need to stop being lazy. They need to offer broader range at better prices with better customer service. If this means tying up with larger brands and working with those brands online sales for small margin, so be it.
local hardwares tying up with expert electrical is one example. At least they then offer somewhat competitive or at least transparent pricing, have up to date product and access to a large range at short notice. The benefit over buying outright online is the ability to see the product before purchase, easy returns process etc.
I've little experience in actually using them and I don't know how good or bad their pricing is but the idea is good relative to a local store trying to maintain a range of electrical goods.

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2018 2:00pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

Most of these small cafes/coffee shops/restaurants are started by people that no nothing about what they are doing.

They're the ones that give Andy From Sligo his free coffee refills for no reason

CeilingFly · 28-09-2018 2:11pm

What the OP and many others are forgetting is that people LIKE shopping.

Normal stores will never go away because they can offer an experience an online store can never offer.

If you exclude anything travel related, online shopping represents about 7-8% of the retail market. In the UK which is the world leader in online shopping (yep bigger than USA) it is about 12%.

It is estimated that the UK will rise to 16-18% in the next few years and Ireland will be at about 12%.

In the eighties, catalogue shopping accounted for close to 8% of retail sales in the UK, so whilst online is higher, its not the game changer people think it is.

Retail does need to change, but that's a natural evolution. Have a look at Lifestyle Sports in Cork (their new store), that simply cannot be replicated online.

So whilst radio did not kill newspapers and TV did not kill radio, online will not kill retail stores.

Many will need to adapt, but they will.

CeilingFly · 28-09-2018 2:16pm

Geuze wrote: »

Note that many Irish businesses have massive gross profit margins, so I have little sympathy for them.

A pub-restaurant in Sligo has a 74% gross margin, leaving plenty for a generous net margin.

Another restaurant charges 17.25 for pizzas, massive margins there.

Some pubs manage up to 68% gross margin on drinks.

That shows very little understanding of business.

Food and drink business HAS to have margins of 60-75%, otherwise they'll fail.

Remember gross margin is before ANY costs are deducted except raw materials, so for a restaurant add gas/electricity, staff for prep, staff for cooking, staff for serving, staff for cleaning. Breakages, wastage, rent, rates, heat, advertising, depreciation, interest on borrowings and much more.

Try opening a restaurant and operate on a gross margin of under 60% - the busier you are the bigger the loss you will make.

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 2:38pm

McGaggs wrote: »

Websites on the EU are already supposed to add the vat rate of whatever country they deliver to. You'll notice the price changes on Amazon when you change between your real address and your parcel motel address.

didnt realise that - I thought you paid the appropriat VAT rate from the country you are ordering from .

If you popped over the border to ARGOS or Currys store in NI and you will pay 20% - cross the border in ROI and you will pay the extra 3% - I thought thats how it worked online too?

so when you order online from say amazon and they charge you the correct 23% ... does that 23% make its way to the Irish government?

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 3:02pm

enricoh wrote: »

I think any business with a turnover of less than say 100k shouldn't have to pay rates.
I was in Roscommon and Leitrim for a few days recently and some of the towns we're ghost towns. The council should be giving the shop owners a grant instead of taking rates.
On the outskirts of one of the towns here was a heap of exercise equipment installed at huge expense no doubt in a park where two alcos were the only ones using it as a bench! Great use of the rates!

i like your way of thinking!

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 3:07pm

Pod123 wrote: »

Sometimes it’s hard to beat on line shopping if both are out at work.

Priced a ladder in the local hard ware store and then priced same on line. Bought on line cheaper and delivered to door for less. Local hardware store was dearer and I would have to collect.

I think it was better when the big retail outlets were closed on Sunday it gave the smaller shops a chance and people still survived.

Perhaps it’s the way forward and the youth like it know the wife and daughter do.

i dont particuarly think that a good idea them shutting on sunday -be a step backwards, and some of these places that open up on Sundays have more customers than in the weekdays. - Plus if they closed sundays , would people use the smaller local shops .. or just order the stuff they need online still?

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 3:38pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They're the ones that give Andy From Sligo his free coffee refills for no reason

where ? - I'd like to find them now these days! - you'd be lucky!

Steve F · 28-09-2018 3:47pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why are shops open when most people are working?

I could never figure that out. I've worked in many places and bar the lunchtime rush, you don't see the same type of shopper on the weekdays that you see at the weekend.

Even if shops opened 11 to 7, at least people would have a chance to pick something up after work, instead of thinking "oh its Monday, I'll have to wait till Thursday to buy that thing when the shop is open late, but if I buy online I'll have it by Wednesday... "

There's a place nearby that sells coal cheap. They're open 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I'd love to but coal from them, but I'd have to take time off work to pick it up

Shift work?? 9-5 is not as common as it was....

draiochtanois · 28-09-2018 3:51pm

This post has been deleted.

The J Stands for Jay · 28-09-2018 4:43pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

didnt realise that - I thought you paid the appropriat VAT rate from the country you are ordering from .

If you popped over the border to ARGOS or Currys store in NI and you will pay 20% - cross the border in ROI and you will pay the extra 3% - I thought thats how it worked online too?

so when you order online from say amazon and they charge you the correct 23% ... does that 23% make its way to the Irish government?

EU regulations. The point of sale determines the vat. Online, the point of sale is based on the location of the buyer. Irish delivery address on a website in the EU will mean Irish VAT rate, paid to Irish government.

Andy From Sligo · 28-09-2018 5:33pm

McGaggs wrote: »

EU regulations. The point of sale determines the vat. Online, the point of sale is based on the location of the buyer. Irish delivery address on a website in the EU will mean Irish VAT rate, paid to Irish government.

ah right - i think i get it ... now onto the subject of something like Parcel Motel and the like (which is what I use quite regularly) - you are giving a Northern ireland address .. and I am pretty sure I only pay 20% when I order stuff off ebay and amazon and other online sites with my supplied NI PM address - the irish government must be missing out in that way?

EDIT: just to let peeps know I dont use PM just because I dont want to support the Irish government with VAT rates .. its mainly because a lot of companies still dont deliver to a ROI address but if they do they charge astronomical price for delivery/shipping

Mountainsandh · 28-09-2018 5:37pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

What the OP and many others are forgetting is that people LIKE shopping.

Normal stores will never go away because they can offer an experience an online store can never offer.

If you exclude anything travel related, online shopping represents about 7-8% of the retail market. In the UK which is the world leader in online shopping (yep bigger than USA) it is about 12%.

It is estimated that the UK will rise to 16-18% in the next few years and Ireland will be at about 12%.

In the eighties, catalogue shopping accounted for close to 8% of retail sales in the UK, so whilst online is higher, its not the game changer people think it is.

Retail does need to change, but that's a natural evolution. Have a look at Lifestyle Sports in Cork (their new store), that simply cannot be replicated online.

So whilst radio did not kill newspapers and TV did not kill radio, online will not kill retail stores.

Many will need to adapt, but they will.

Ah. Here it is, the "experience" word

I don't think customers care as much for the experience as retailers (or specialized designers, perhaps ?) like to think.

You do have a point though, some people enjoy the shopping experience, and it will remain to an extent. But I think the balance will tilt further than what you think.

For youngsters and older people I think there is this element of social outing that they value, for working generations it's just a lot of time wasted.

The J Stands for Jay · 28-09-2018 5:46pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right - i think i get it ... now onto the subject of something like Parcel Motel and the like (which is what I use quite regularly) - you are giving a Northern ireland address .. and I am pretty sure I only pay 20% when I order stuff off ebay and amazon and other online sites with my supplied NI PM address - the irish government must be missing out in that way?

EDIT: just to let peeps know I dont use PM just because I dont want to support the Irish government with VAT rates .. its mainly because a lot of companies still dont deliver to a ROI address but if they do they charge astronomical price for delivery/shipping

Yeah, it's the delivery address that determines where the VAT goes. PM deliveries from Amazon go to fund Teresa May's 'technological border' and other such shenanigans.

How can Brick & Mortar shops compete with Online Shopping?

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