South-East Health - Primetime

Johnboy1951 · 20-09-2018 8:32am #1

Primetime tonight at 21:20 will feature an examination of the situation in the South East and the need to travel to Dublin or Cork for treatment dues to lack of facilities in our regional hospital.

Maybe something will come of this ...... it is certainly timely being so close to decisions on budget.

If we only had the clout in the political circles!

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 8:35am

Johnboy1951 wrote:

If we only had the clout in the political circles!

Are our political institutions truly capable of such changes?

Johnboy1951 · 20-09-2018 8:37am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Are our political institutions truly capable of such changes?

'Where there is the will ... ' ---- whether that be free will, bought or threatened it hardly matters, if the result is "correct".

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 8:41am

Johnboy1951 wrote:

'Where there is the will ... ' whether free will, bought or threatened it hardly matters, if the result is "correct".

I'm not convinced these issues can be resolved in the short term via these institutions, but I do agree, we must persist it making sure they do eventually

BBM77 · 20-09-2018 9:26am

You know I actually agree with you. I don’t believe that the problems with the health service nationally will ever be solved by the government. To me the government is the problem they should be taken out of health care.

Harry Palmr · 20-09-2018 10:05am

Uganda. BIFFO was right about that if nothing else. National health systems are fundamentally beyond reform that can improve it at a systemic level. It'll only ever be tweaking around the edges. When something big is attempted you get the HSE and PPARS.

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 10:07am

BBM77 wrote: »

You know I actually agree with you. I don’t believe that the problems with the health service nationally will ever be solved by the government. To me the government is the problem they should be taken out of health care.

should we leave it to 'the market' or some form of regulatory democracy to solve?

bullpost · 20-09-2018 12:10pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

should we leave it to 'the market' or some form of regulatory democracy to solve?

Definitely not the market - could be part of a solution, not the solution.

Johnboy1951 · 20-09-2018 12:11pm

IMO the Health Service should be provided by gov. from general taxation.
It is far too important to the populous to leave to commercial interests.

What has screwed things up, IMO, is the tendency to treat it like a commercial service.

If done properly there should be no need of private health care, except for selective surgeries and such.

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 12:12pm

bullpost wrote: »

Definitely not the market - could be part of a solution, not the solution.

this is a difficult one, im not convinced anybody knows what the solutions are, you d have to wonder what the crunch point will be regarding our health service, how many more people must die before change occurs.

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 12:14pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

IMO the Health Service should be provided by gov. from general taxation.
It is far too important to the populous to leave to commercial interests.

What has screwed things up, IMO, is the tendency to treat it like a commercial service.

If done properly there should be no need of private health care, except for selective surgeries and such.

even though id largely agree, i do believe the labor force is more or less tapped out in regards taxation, we better finds other ways of creating revenue, and fast

Johnboy1951 · 20-09-2018 12:20pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

even though id largely agree, i do believe the labor force is more or less tapped out in regards taxation, we better finds other ways of creating revenue, and fast

That might well be so, yet that same labour force is capable of paying for private health insurance.

One might well believe that this private health insurance has considerably depleted the monies that would be better put into a proper national health service.

I have no idea how that genie could be put back in the bottle!

Of course a lot of savings could apparently be made with greater efficiencies.

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 12:23pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That might well be so, yet that same labour force is capable of paying for private health insurance.

One might well believe that this private health insurance has considerably depleted the monies that would be better put into a proper national health service.

I have no idea how that genie could be put back in the bottle!

yea i fear we may not be able to, but we have to at least try. im wondering could not for profit private businesses be integrated into our health care system, and maintain them by strict rules and regulations?

IspeakcozIcan · 20-09-2018 10:07pm

Pretty damning figures on Prime Time now. Takes on average 2 hours 26 minutes to get from Waterford to Cork cath lab. Not the 90 minutes specified in Herity report.

BBM77 · 21-09-2018 8:41am

To my mind 24 hr Cardiac care has gone beyond weather we should have it or not. It is to the point there should be a public enquiry as to why it was removed and medical best practice and advice was ignored.

Squidvicious · 21-09-2018 9:12am

BBM77 wrote: »

To my mind 24 hr Cardiac care has gone beyond weather we should have it or not. It is to the point there should be a public enquiry as to why it was removed and medical best practice and advice was ignored.

Ah, but sure didn't they get an expert to prove beyond doubt that there's absolutely no need for a 24 hour cath lab in Waterford:rolleyes: http://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-cath-lab-review-2971483-Sep2016/. You must be wrong*.

*For the avoidance of doubt, I'm being sarcastic. Unfortunately, some people in government are still spinning this line.

Johnboy1951 · 21-09-2018 9:58am

I did learn one thing I had not known from Primetime .....

that 'report' claimed 1Hr 28mins, or just 2 mins inside the internationally recognised 90 mins, to transfer patients from Waterford to Cork or Dublin.

#

IMO, anybody who was not bought off, would have to consider that in a life and death situation, that timing was cutting it too close for any reasonable person to accept, particularly if that 88mins was an average (50% over 88mins).

Of course the numbers were also available for times taken for actual journeys over a period, but they were not used. Those numbers showed the usual time taken for transfer to be well over the 90 mins.

#

The other aspect of the programme was how badly Halligan came across. In fact he looked like a beaten man with no fight left in him.
He was so bad I wondered if he is seriously ill.

What he spouted was not at all acceptable to me.
He did not even back up the view that the existing lab hours should be extended while the new one was in progress!

A complete failure IMO.

I hope the program does some good in the right places.

.

hardybuck · 21-09-2018 10:12am

I think it's a really difficult problem to solve, and most countries grapple with this. It's not really for lack of investment either, I think the money Ireland spends on it is right up there with other developed countries.

One of the issues in Ireland is population density. People all over the country expect to get the very best in service which is very understandable. Providing for that is another story altogether. There will only be a limited amount of specialists in Ireland, and a limited pot of resources with which to distribute them. With the population we have, we need centres of excellence also for specialists to get enough cases to become specialists.

I've seen family members get really poor outcomes in Waterford and Wexford from doctors who just weren't at the top of their fields. Ultimately they all received life saving treatment from specialists based in Dublin, and each asserted that they'd have gone to Donegal if that was where the expertise was.

Obviously cardiac issues are extremely time sensitive, but if there was an easy solution I think it would have been forthcoming by now. It probably doesn't help that parts of the South East are within an hour of Dublin and Cork. Ultimately if Waterford grew a little more it would probably solve a few problems.

Harry Palmr · 21-09-2018 10:24am

Hard to grow when so many aids to growth have been denied to Waterford over the last 30 years. It suits bean counters in the captial that Waterford (and elsewhere) is "too small" for proper support. For all the talk about taking the heat out of the Dublin economy the powers that be prefer to keep that city as the absolute hub of the Irish economy.

hardybuck · 21-09-2018 10:54am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hard to grow when so many aids to growth have been denied to Waterford over the last 30 years. It suits bean counters in the captial that Waterford (and elsewhere) is "too small" for proper support. For all the talk about taking the heat out of the Dublin economy the powers that be prefer to keep that city as the absolute hub of the Irish economy.

I don't want to get off topic, but Waterford is probably the victim of it's own dysfunctions as much as the national dysfunctions.

Harry Palmr · 21-09-2018 2:03pm

Fair enough

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 2:20pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hard to grow when so many aids to growth have been denied to Waterford over the last 30 years. It suits bean counters in the captial that Waterford (and elsewhere) is "too small" for proper support. For all the talk about taking the heat out of the Dublin economy the powers that be prefer to keep that city as the absolute hub of the Irish economy.

I don't want to get off topic, but Waterford is probably the victim of it's own dysfunctions as much as the national dysfunctions.

You don't think the dysfunctions are a result of us being under served in practically every sector of investment imaginable?

hardybuck · 21-09-2018 2:35pm

Deiseen wrote: »

You don't think the dysfunctions are a result of us being under served in practically every sector of investment imaginable?

Potentially, but things like militant trade unions played a part in investment leaving or not coming to Waterford. Very few of Waterford's TDs seemed to have the ability to rise within their parties over the years. Maybe the councils weren't always up to scratch.

The South East as a region just mightn't be a great fit either - too many smallish counties jostling for position, and parts of the region which are within striking distance of Dublin and Cork too.

Essentially, Waterford is where it is, regardless of who is at fault.

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 3:00pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

You don't think the dysfunctions are a result of us being under served in practically every sector of investment imaginable?

Potentially, but things like militant trade unions played a part in investment leaving or not coming to Waterford. Very few of Waterford's TDs seemed to have the ability to rise within their parties over the years. Maybe the councils weren't always up to scratch.

The South East as a region just mightn't be a great fit either - too many smallish counties jostling for position, and parts of the region which are within striking distance of Dublin and Cork too.

Essentially, Waterford is where it is, regardless of who is at fault.

Political influence, militant trade unions or poor councils should have absolutely zero to do with the Government investing fairly in the South East.

There's no potentially about it, its pure fact that it's down to Government neglect.

You are crazy to think that militant trade unions from the 80s would affect a large multinational from investing in Waterford. Most people below 30 don't even know this was a thing in Waterford, never mind someone who is not even from Ireland!

The problem is that a company will look for an educated work force which we don't have because we don't have a University (and not many ITs) they will look for access which we don't have because we are not near an international airport. Then they will actually have to be brought down for a visit, which they aren't by the IDA!

I am actually struggling to believe that you think it can be partly blamed on militant trade unions, or anything other than neglect from the government to be honest!!!

hardybuck · 21-09-2018 3:14pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Political influence, militant trade unions or poor councils should have absolutely zero to do with the Government investing fairly in the South East.

There's no potentially about it, its pure fact that it's down to Government neglect.

You are crazy to think that militant trade unions from the 80s would affect a large multinational from investing in Waterford. Most people below 30 don't even know this was a thing in Waterford, never mind someone who is not even from Ireland!

The problem is that a company will look for an educated work force which we don't have because we don't have a University (and not many ITs) they will look for access which we don't have because we are not near an international airport. Then they will actually have to be brought down for a visit, which they aren't by the IDA!

I am actually struggling to believe that you think it can be partly blamed on militant trade unions, or anything other than neglect from the government to be honest!!!

It would be fair to say that a lot of this is biased on the fact that you're from Waterford, and feel strongly about it.

kuang1 · 21-09-2018 3:22pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Potentially, but things like militant trade unions played a part in investment leaving or not coming to Waterford.

You've done it now!

*gets popcorn*

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 3:27pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Political influence, militant trade unions or poor councils should have absolutely zero to do with the Government investing fairly in the South East.

There's no potentially about it, its pure fact that it's down to Government neglect.

You are crazy to think that militant trade unions from the 80s would affect a large multinational from investing in Waterford. Most people below 30 don't even know this was a thing in Waterford, never mind someone who is not even from Ireland!

The problem is that a company will look for an educated work force which we don't have because we don't have a University (and not many ITs) they will look for access which we don't have because we are not near an international airport. Then they will actually have to be brought down for a visit, which they aren't by the IDA!

I am actually struggling to believe that you think it can be partly blamed on militant trade unions, or anything other than neglect from the government to be honest!!!

It would be fair to say that a lot of this is biased on the fact that you're from Waterford, and feel strongly about it.

Yeah I guess your right, my strong feelings are to blame for all the ignored reports recommending a university in the South East, and the lack of IDA visits and faking reports so that we can't have a second Cath lab.

I don't know what generation you are, but the militant trade union garbage is long gone, as I said, most people my age wouldn't even be aware of this and I'm from Waterford!

Cork had a lot of sit ins over the last few years, I suppose investment will start flooding out of cork now based on your logic.

smalltalk · 21-09-2018 6:52pm

ah the old "militant union" crap,based on a strike that happened in the 80's,number one move from the put Waterford back in its place playbook.The fact is that Waterfords more recent history of labour relations has been one of partnership resulting in companies staying and investing here,but that's not what the detractors want anyone from outside to see.

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 6:58pm

smalltalk wrote: »

ah the old "militant union" crap,based on a strike that happened in the 80's,number one move from the put Waterford back in its place playbook.The fact is that Waterfords more recent history of labour relations has been one of partnership resulting in companies staying and investing here,but that's not what the detractors want anyone from outside to see.

As I've said, most people my age are not even aware of this "militant history", you go younger again and it's almost completely forgotten. How is an outsider ever going to know (or care!?!) about this?

Companies would set up in Kabul if the conditions were right!

smalltalk · 21-09-2018 7:51pm

"How is an outsider ever going to know (or care!?!) about this?

Companies would set up in Kabul if the conditions were right!"

They will know if they are told and it does not matter if its true or not the perception is now planted and that can unfortunately effect investment of any sort.Kabul would not be where the investment goes limerick,Cork or Galway would be its destination.

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 7:54pm

smalltalk wrote: »

"How is an outsider ever going to know (or care!?!) about this?

Companies would set up in Kabul if the conditions were right!"

They will know if they are told and it does not matter if its true or not the perception is now planted and that can unfortunately effect investment of any sort.Kabul would not be where the investment goes limerick,Cork or Galway would be its destination.

I can see the IDA not bringing companies down to visit, but if they were bad mouthing places they were bringing companies to then that would be a scandal as big as the Cath lab.

hardybuck · 21-09-2018 9:18pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Yeah I guess your right, my strong feelings are to blame for all the ignored reports recommending a university in the South East, and the lack of IDA visits and faking reports so that we can't have a second Cath lab.

I don't know what generation you are, but the militant trade union garbage is long gone, as I said, most people my age wouldn't even be aware of this and I'm from Waterford!

Cork had a lot of sit ins over the last few years, I suppose investment will start flooding out of cork now based on your logic.

I don't think you're being very balanced, and you've seized upon one point you didn't like.

I merely pointed out a few reasons why I thought Waterford ended up where it is. In my opinion what happened in the 80s and 90s is extremely relevant to how Waterford developed in the way that it did, or more accurately didn't develop in the way that it maybe should.

In my opinion it's not everyone else's fault, the blame lies in many places, including in Waterford.

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 9:22pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Yeah I guess your right, my strong feelings are to blame for all the ignored reports recommending a university in the South East, and the lack of IDA visits and faking reports so that we can't have a second Cath lab.

I don't know what generation you are, but the militant trade union garbage is long gone, as I said, most people my age wouldn't even be aware of this and I'm from Waterford!

Cork had a lot of sit ins over the last few years, I suppose investment will start flooding out of cork now based on your logic.

I don't think you're being very balanced, and you've seized upon one point you didn't like.

I merely pointed out a few reasons why I thought Waterford ended up where it is. In my opinion what happened in the 80s and 90s is extremely relevant to how Waterford developed in the way that it did, or more accurately didn't develop in the way that it maybe should.

In my opinion it's not everyone else's fault, the blame lies in many places, including in Waterford.

I'm not saying a Uni, properly funded hospital, airport and good paying jobs are the saving grace to make Waterford a Utopia, because they won't. Look at Limerick, it has all those things but has major issues, but at least it has the ingredients to work on their issues. We have sweet FA.

One thing limerick can never say, is that it is being royally screwed by the Government. We can, in every way. You may think I'm being unbalanced but I'm not.

If the primetime report doesn't convince you about what most of us have already known, then I'm not sure what will.

Chiparus · 21-09-2018 9:24pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Political influence, militant trade unions or poor councils should have absolutely zero to do with the Government investing fairly in the South East.

There's no potentially about it, its pure fact that it's down to Government neglect.

You are crazy to think that militant trade unions from the 80s would affect a large multinational from investing in Waterford. Most people below 30 don't even know this was a thing in Waterford, never mind someone who is not even from Ireland!

The problem is that a company will look for an educated work force which we don't have because we don't have a University (and not many ITs) they will look for access which we don't have because we are not near an international airport. Then they will actually have to be brought down for a visit, which they aren't by the IDA!

I am actually struggling to believe that you think it can be partly blamed on militant trade unions, or anything other than neglect from the government to be honest!!!

I would say you are wrong there, the former justice spokesman for FG was despised by Enda Kenny.

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 9:25pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Political influence, militant trade unions or poor councils should have absolutely zero to do with the Government investing fairly in the South East.

There's no potentially about it, its pure fact that it's down to Government neglect.

You are crazy to think that militant trade unions from the 80s would affect a large multinational from investing in Waterford. Most people below 30 don't even know this was a thing in Waterford, never mind someone who is not even from Ireland!

The problem is that a company will look for an educated work force which we don't have because we don't have a University (and not many ITs) they will look for access which we don't have because we are not near an international airport. Then they will actually have to be brought down for a visit, which they aren't by the IDA!

I am actually struggling to believe that you think it can be partly blamed on militant trade unions, or anything other than neglect from the government to be honest!!!

I would say you are wrong there, the former justice spokesman for FG was despised by Enda Kenny.

Political influence definitely does help but I'm saying it shouldn't.

I understand we may lose out here and there due to lack of political representation but the amount we lose out on is beyond belief and cannot just be down to political representation.

Like going out of the way to twist/fake/fudge reports is not down to lack of political representation..

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 9:25pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Political influence, militant trade unions or poor councils should have absolutely zero to do with the Government investing fairly in the South East.

There's no potentially about it, its pure fact that it's down to Government neglect.

You are crazy to think that militant trade unions from the 80s would affect a large multinational from investing in Waterford. Most people below 30 don't even know this was a thing in Waterford, never mind someone who is not even from Ireland!

The problem is that a company will look for an educated work force which we don't have because we don't have a University (and not many ITs) they will look for access which we don't have because we are not near an international airport. Then they will actually have to be brought down for a visit, which they aren't by the IDA!

I am actually struggling to believe that you think it can be partly blamed on militant trade unions, or anything other than neglect from the government to be honest!!!

I would say you are wrong there, the former justice spokesman for FG was despised by Enda Kenny.

Political influence definitely does help but I'm saying it shouldn't.

I understand we may lose out here and there due to lack of political representation but the amount we lose out on is beyond belief and cannot just be down to political representation.

Like going out of the way to twist/fake/fudge reports is not down to lack of political representation..

Chiparus · 21-09-2018 9:33pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Political influence definitely does help but I'm saying it shouldn't.

I understand we may lose out here and there due to lack of political representation but the amount we lose out on is beyond belief and cannot just be down to political representation.

Like going out of the way to twist/fake/fudge reports is not down to lack of political representation..

I can tell you , the reason why Limerick has a cardiac catherisation lab has little to do with need - there is a direct motorway to Galway, another coming to Cork ans the catchment area population half that of Waterford.

All to do with who was the minister of finance. The knock on was that Cork lost a large part of its catchment population for cardiology ( Kerry Limerick, North Tip) hence the need for Cork to get the population from Waterford and south tip.

hardybuck · 21-09-2018 9:41pm

Chiparus wrote: »

I can tell you , the reason why Limerick has a cardiac catherisation lab has little to do with need - there is a direct motorway to Galway, another coming to Cork ans the catchment area population half that of Waterford.

All to do with who was the minister of finance. The knock on was that Cork lost a large part of its catchment population for cardiology ( Kerry Limerick, North Tip) hence the need for Cork to get the population from Waterford and south tip.

I think people forget about how big Limerick is. The county is about the size of Waterford and Kilkenny combined. They also serve north Tipp, parts of Clare with a good population, and North Kerry as you've mentioned.

I think that combined with the fact that parts of the south east are within an hour of Dublin and Cork doesn't help either.

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 10:10pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Chiparus wrote: »

I can tell you , the reason why Limerick has a cardiac catherisation lab has little to do with need - there is a direct motorway to Galway, another coming to Cork ans the catchment area population half that of Waterford.

All to do with who was the minister of finance. The knock on was that Cork lost a large part of its catchment population for cardiology ( Kerry Limerick, North Tip) hence the need for Cork to get the population from Waterford and south tip.

I think people forget about how big Limerick is. The county is about the size of Waterford and Kilkenny combined. They also serve north Tipp, parts of Clare with a good population, and North Kerry as you've mentioned.

I think that combined with the fact that parts of the south east are within an hour of Dublin and Cork doesn't help either.

Parts of places you mentioned are very near to Galway and Cork..

No one's arguing about size or proximity to Dublin. What we are talking about here is the fudging of a document to deny Waterford/SE a service it requires based on population and need.

Not sure why you are trying to install other criteria when the documentary clearly showed there was an agenda to cover up the need for this service.

Chiparus · 21-09-2018 10:40pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Parts of places you mentioned are very near to Galway and Cork..

No one's arguing about size or proximity to Dublin. What we are talking about here is the fudging of a document to deny Waterford/SE a service it requires based on population and need.

Not sure why you are trying to install other criteria when the documentary clearly showed there was an agenda to cover up the need for this service.

No I'm pointing out the reason why Waterford does not have 24/7 cath lab, is actually to boost up Corks numbers, because they lost patients when Limerick got 24/7 cath lab.

Limericks cachement was only 300,000

Deiseen · 21-09-2018 10:43pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Parts of places you mentioned are very near to Galway and Cork..

No one's arguing about size or proximity to Dublin. What we are talking about here is the fudging of a document to deny Waterford/SE a service it requires based on population and need.

Not sure why you are trying to install other criteria when the documentary clearly showed there was an agenda to cover up the need for this service.

No I'm pointing out the reason why Waterford does not have 24/7 cath lab, is actually to boost up Corks numbers, because they lost patients when Limerick got 24/7 cath lab.

Limericks cachement was only 300,000

Sorry, meant those last 2 points as a reply to hardybucks.

Max Powers · 21-09-2018 11:11pm

I recorded prime time bit, finally got to watch it, shocking stuff, if we didn't all know it years ago. John halligan was poor on it I felt, like he was trying to big up his achievement of getting to where we are now, when all was required was to hammer home the lying report and dark arts in the HSE.pity, I like JH, and as mentioned numerous times before, agree with a lot of what he says but I think he has been useless.

Deiseen · 22-09-2018 7:59am

Max Powers wrote: »

I recorded prime time bit, finally got to watch it, shocking stuff, if we didn't all know it years ago. John halligan was poor on it I felt, like he was trying to big up his achievement of getting to where we are now, when all was required was to hammer home the lying report and dark arts in the HSE.pity, I like JH, and as mentioned numerous times before, agree with a lot of what he says but I think he has been useless.

In fairness to John, he was hammering on about the flawed report more than anyone when it was released.

Any statement from Herity?

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2018 8:32am

Was there another protest in town yesterday over the cath lab?

Gardner · 24-09-2018 9:14am

Deiseen wrote: »

In fairness to John, he was hammering on about the flawed report more than anyone when it was released.

Any statement from Herity?

this!

we only see about 0.5% of what goes on behind the scenes and the absolute muck sprouted at times on the 24/7 facebook pages doesn't help either.

when the minister for popular rhetoric David Cullinane has fallen out with nearly all the action groups it says a lot. even though Halligan was poor when he said he would "rain hell on the government" you can clearly see he is working behind the scenes to get this delivered and i believe he will in time. this isn't something that by a click of your fingers can happen over night that the social media warriors believe it will. if Paudie Coffey was reelected in the last GE and was sitting at cabinet at a senior position we would still be in the same situation.

there are local elections coming up and it will be interesting to see if some of these social media ego's put their name forward. 2 of the groups front people are unbackable. Shanahan personal facebook page showed that he was a big No voter in the recent referendum and O'Neill is a backer of Gemma O'Doherty who believes the world is flat and everyone is wrong expect her :P

Gardner · 24-09-2018 9:16am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Was there another protest in town yesterday over the cath lab?

was down in the city over the weekend and went down for a look while herself was in the shops. left after 5 minutes. heard nothing new and the same auld speech. its nearly a men's shed at the moment to get auld lads out of the gaff to rant and rave on the street and then have a few pints on the way home.

debok · 24-09-2018 9:32am

Gardner wrote: »

was down in the city over the weekend and went down for a look while herself was in the shops. left after 5 minutes. heard nothing new and the same auld speech. its nearly a men's shed at the moment to get auld lads out of the gaff to rant and rave on the street and then have a few pints on the way home.

In fairness your full of ****e now. Your judging Who spoke at the protest on the five minutes you were there. Did you see people you nearly died from heart issues speaking or family members of poor wit lecturer who died or Vicky Phelan from cervical cancer scandal speak. At least there trying to get something done.

Gardner · 24-09-2018 10:39am

debok wrote: »

In fairness your full of ****e now. Your judging Who spoke at the protest on the five minutes you were there. Did you see people you nearly died from heart issues speaking or family members of poor wit lecturer who died or Vicky Phelan from cervical cancer scandal speak. At least there trying to get something done.

heard it on WLR, RTE & read it endless amount of times on Social Media so i didn't need to hear it again. i don't suffer from memory loss. :rolleyes:

debok · 24-09-2018 10:50am

Gardner wrote: »

heard it on WLR, RTE & read it endless amount of times on Social Media so i didn't need to hear it again. i don't suffer from memory loss. :rolleyes:

Let's hope you don't suffer a heart attack after 5 or the weekend.

Gardner · 24-09-2018 10:53am

debok wrote: »

Let's hope you don't suffer a heart attack after 5 or the weekend.

great response :rolleyes:

debok · 24-09-2018 11:05am

Gardner wrote: »

great response :rolleyes:

Sorry i put let's and don't in it by accident

South-East Health - Primetime

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