No wonder millennials can't afford a mortgage

LirW · 19-09-2018 10:21AM

troyzer wrote: »

The solution is to start thinking radically about step down homes for elderly couples whose kids have moved on, decent public transport to make the commute from Mullingar to the city centre the same time as Lucan to the city centre was for my parents.

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There are plenty of elderly that want to size down, the problem is that there's little out there that's suitable to size down to. Often elderly people have some sort of support network in place when things aren't easy going anymore, they need access to a doctor and hospitals. Yet many are still independent enough that they don't wanna live in care homes.
There's a big lack of options for them when they want to eventually move on.

My in-laws live in a big house that they don't really use but no way they'd ever move because they love where they live. She'd be open to a move down to Wicklow, he doesn't want to though. At the end of the day it's their house, they paid for it so they can do whatever they want with it.

troyzer · 19-09-2018 10:31AM

LirW wrote: »

There are plenty of elderly that want to size down, the problem is that there's little out there that's suitable to size down to. Often elderly people have some sort of support network in place when things aren't easy going anymore, they need access to a doctor and hospitals. Yet many are still independent enough that they don't wanna live in care homes.
There's a big lack of options for them when they want to eventually move on.

My in-laws live in a big house that they don't really use but no way they'd ever move because they love where they live. She'd be open to a move down to Wicklow, he doesn't want to though. At the end of the day it's their house, they paid for it so they can do whatever they want with it.

I agree, it's not entirely or even mostly their fault. Which is why I said we need practical step down houses for elderly people. My grand parents live in a five bed semi D just inside the M50, you could fit 10-15 students in there easily. But they want to stay relatively local because of their friends and hobbies and there's nowhere to go for them so they stay put.

Poor_old_gill · 19-09-2018 10:33AM

troyzer wrote: »

The solution is to start thinking radically about step down homes for elderly couples whose kids have moved on, decent public transport to make the commute from Mullingar to the city centre the same time as Lucan to the city centre was for my parents.

Nobody cares if they're further away as long as the time taken is the same. Commuting for really long time periods is really unhealthy.

And of course, I fully advocate shafting current homeowners with high rise apartment blocks.

Canada does public transport much better than us. Plus salaries are much higher. It's more money chasing less housing, yes. But the BC government are willing to pull out the stops, something out government isn't. For example, they've recently introduced a large tax on non-residents who buy homes. It's had a noticable effect.

The public transport network isnt there though and we dont have the money to invest in it.

The only solutions that I can see- are build up in Dublin and/or provide incentives to companies to set up in Mullingar/Athlone/Galway/Limerick/Tralee/Ennis.

One solution that keeps on being floated is moving the port of Dublin up the coast and converting the land into apartments-seems like a no-brainer to me but am open to someone with better knowledge refuting this.

Also as Vancouver was mentioned-the place has a massive homeless & drug taking epidemic- Irish people seem to think it's the land of milk & honey because they all move to places like Whistler or Vancouver Island and live there for 2 years or so- but none can afford to buy so the comparison isnt exactly on point.

It's like renting in Ranelagh and presuming that all of Dublin is just like it

amcalester · 19-09-2018 10:36AM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

One solution that keeps on being floated is moving the port of Dublin up the coast and converting the land into apartments-seems like a no-brainer to me but am open to someone with better knowledge refuting this

Think of all the 3 bed semi-d's that could built, it'd be amazing.

troyzer · 19-09-2018 10:44AM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

The public transport network isnt there though and we dont have the money to invest in it.

The only solutions that I can see- are build up in Dublin and/or provide incentives to companies to set up in Mullingar/Athlone/Galway/Limerick/Tralee/Ennis.

One solution that keeps on being floated is moving the port of Dublin up the coast and converting the land into apartments-seems like a no-brainer to me but am open to someone with better knowledge refuting this

We're one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Of course we can do it if we prioritise it.

Moving the economy to the regions and smaller cities has been tried for years and just hasn't worked to the extent needed.

I often thought that about the port, seems mad where it is.

amcalester wrote: »

Think of all the 3 bed semi-d's that could built, it'd be amazing.

That's depressing but probably what would happen.

jam_mac_jam · 19-09-2018 10:48AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yeah that's what they have every morning for breakfast and nobody born before 1985 ever wastes money on food. There is no transfer of wealth that has happened over the past 30 years in favour of those who own property, its all about toast. Well done.

Self entitled millennials tend to get quite hung up about about 'transfer of wealth'. Its quite a hallmark.
Earning it themselves seems to be a difficult concept for them.

Really? I know plenty of millennials who work very hard earning money. So not many I know have a problem earning.
There was a huge transfer of wealth to the baby boomers in terms of property wealth. That's a fact not an opinion. You should look it up and get the chip off your shoulder.

Poor_old_gill · 19-09-2018 11:08AM

troyzer wrote: »

We're one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Of course we can do it if we prioritise it.

Moving the economy to the regions and smaller cities has been tried for years and just hasn't worked to the extent needed.

I often thought that about the port, seems mad where it is.

That's depressing but probably what would happen.

We're the most in-debt per capita country in the EU so I dont think its accurate to take about us being very wealthy.

We have a good cash flow at the moment if you want to look at it in a business context but we borrowed up to eyeballs.

The port thing does seem like a no brainer and considering that a lot of employment would also be in that area- it might have the potential to take a lot of people off already over crowded public transport

BBFAN · 19-09-2018 11:22AM

fergus1001 wrote: »

going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here

anyone in Dublin on the housing list and who does not have a job in Dublin should be relocated to the Midlands or west were rent is cheaper, It is unacceptable that my tax euros goes to house people in Dublin who are not contributing while I cannot afford a house in kildare while I am working and paying tax

You're not throwing the cat amongst the pigeons at all, just trotting out a line that's been trotted out by bitter people since the recession hit.

"get all the unemployed out of Dublin so I can live there".

Can you see how idiotic that sounds? Moving unemployed people to a place where there are no jobs? That's going to end well.

Also, what happens when you're unemployed, ill or simply old? Do we move you out of Dublin because there's no need for you to live there then?

Some people have such a small self-centred view of the world it scares me.

amcalester · 19-09-2018 11:24AM

BBFAN wrote: »

You're not throwing the cat amongst the pigeons at all, just trotting out a line that's been trotted out by bitter people since the recession hit.

"get all the unemployed out of Dublin so I can live there".

Can you see how idiotic that sounds? Moving unemployed people to a place where there are no jobs? That's going to end well.

Also, what happens when you're unemployed, ill or simply old? Do we move you out of Dublin because there's no need for you to live there then?

Some people have such a small self-centred view of the world it scares me.

He's referring to the never-employed, not the unemployed.

All the never-employed are unemployed, but not all unemployed are never-employed.

BBFAN · 19-09-2018 11:42AM

amcalester wrote: »

He's referring to the never-employed, not the unemployed.

All the never-employed are unemployed, but not all unemployed are never-employed.

Great that you can read another posters mind. You should sell that skill. :rolleyes:

mikemac2 · 19-09-2018 11:50AM

In 1981 the founder of Ballygowan water named Geoff Read went onto the late late show and became a national laughing stock

Irish people buy water? This wet country? The man was a joke, now if he still owns it he’s a multi millionaire

Ah OP you scoff at millennials wasting money but your parents said the same about you. Somewhere in Ancient Rome the same got said too

Your post is very preachy

amcalester · 19-09-2018 11:53AM

BBFAN wrote: »

Great that you can read another posters mind. You should sell that skill. :rolleyes:

Well quite usefully he put his thoughts into words, makes it easier.

andekwarhola · 19-09-2018 11:57AM

Augeo wrote: »

They pay tiny rent.

As a means-tested percentage of their income. Hence social housing.

It would be a social disaster to move low income people to parts of Ireland where there are little jobs or facilities just to assuage the bitterness of people that can't hack a commute to work.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-09-2018 12:04PM

mikemac2 wrote: »

In 1981 he founder of Ballygowan water named Geoff Read went onto the late late show and became a national laughing stock

Irish people buy water? This wet country? The man was a joke, now if he still owns it he’s a multi millionaire

Ah OP you scoff at millennials wasting money but your parents said the same about you. Somewhere in Ancient Rome the same got said too

Your post is very preachy

It did seem like a ridiculous concept at the time though.

You would have been seen as sort of mug or touched in the head for buying something readily available for free.

You could only admire somebody like Read. He could sell sand to the Arabs

amcalester · 19-09-2018 12:08PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

As a means-tested percentage of their income. Hence social housing.

It would be a social disaster to move low income people to parts of Ireland where there are little jobs or facilities just to assuage the bitterness of people that can't hack a commute to work.

People with jobs should live where there are no jobs and commute so that the people with no jobs can live where the jobs are so that they don't have to commute to their non-existent job.

Gotcha!

draiochtanois · 19-09-2018 12:08PM

This post has been deleted.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-09-2018 12:20PM

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well it is of course but man it sells like crazy.

I find it fascinating and I've huge admiration for all the entrepreneurs who made their fortunes in bottled water.

The power of marketing is truly incredible.

jmayo · 19-09-2018 12:28PM

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

andekwarhola wrote: »

Was that average wage really 25k punt in 1988. Not disputing, just surprised. And what was the median I wonder.

I don't know where they got the figure from, but I think £25k in 1988 as average wage is way way too much.

The average industrial wage per week was €264.53 which works out at £208 or £10.8 per annum.

I know leaving college in 1992 with a degree in engineering one could get funded by I think it was Eolas at the time on a 1 year work scheme with a small company on salary of £10k.
The state entity provided 5k and the company provided 5k.

Engineer starting salaries from memory were from around 12k to 16k.

Bigmac1euro · 19-09-2018 12:46PM

jmayo wrote: »

I don't know where they got the figure from, but I think £25k in 1988 as average wage is way way too much.

The average industrial wage per week was €264.53 which works out at £208 or £10.8 per annum.

I know leaving college in 1992 with a degree in engineering one could get funded by I think it was Eolas at the time on a 1 year work scheme with a small company on salary of £10k.
The state entity provided 5k and the company provided 5k.

Engineer starting salaries from memory were from around 12k to 16k.

To be honest I thought it sounded quite high as well and I was fairly shocked at this. Perhaps the economist or whatever he was was using real earnings as opposed to the nominal earnings you posted.

Nominal earnings for 1988 - €264 = €13,728
Real earnings for 1988 - €487= €25,324 per year

Again these all figures but the truth is people were buying 3 bed houses for between 25k to 35k

And the salary was a 1/3 of that

now my COMBINED salary with my partner would 1/5th of house prices or a 1/6th in some cases

Terenure like stated above is a terrible example for house prices in dublin in late 80's early 90's

And the people quoting the likes of Meath etc showing a bungalow for 50k i reckon you should stay away from trying to purchase a house because you'll end up with a 1 bed in ballymun for 600k

Feisar · 19-09-2018 01:16PM

Someone mentioned it earlier and I think it's worth a thread on it's own.

What happens to the current crop that cannot afford a house? My neighbor who was renting for 13 years had to move from what was her home as the owner was selling. She found somewhere else however at 55 years old approx, she has ten years left able to rent. This is very approximate, I don't know the ins and outs of her exact circumstance. What's she going to do when she can no longer work to pay her rent?

There's a generation there now that unfortunately home ownership is out of the question, yet the Irish system isn't set up for rental. For example a Swedish ex's parents rent, are retired and have no issue.

So, as someone else said bit of a ticking time bomb.

troyzer · 19-09-2018 01:22PM

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's still a ridiculous idea- ****ing notions

it's another thing millennials waste their money on ...[/quote]

Beating up on Millenials again. I've had the same Nalgene bottle for eight years and never buy bottled water unless I'm really stuck.

My Mam buys a slab of 24, 500ml every two or three days.

It drives me mad. I think you'll find millenials are more environmentally conscious and less likely to waste plastic with bottled water.

Grayson · 19-09-2018 01:54PM

amcalester wrote: »

4 bed bungalow in Louth c. £60K in 91/92.

How much land with it and how big was the house? A Bungalow is a very broad description. I remember in college in maynooth in 95 our landlord kicked us out. He'd bought the 4 bed house in an estate for something like 30k and was selling it a few years later for 38k. I remember him saying "lads, this type of increase can't keep happening. I'm going to sell up and make a profit while I can"

BTW, the average house prices are here.
https://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=HSQ06&PLanguage=0

Grayson · 19-09-2018 01:56PM

troyzer wrote: »

Beating up on Millenials again. I've had the same Nalgene bottle for eight years and never buy bottled water unless I'm really stuck.

My Mam buys a slab of 24, 500ml every two or three days.

It drives me mad. I think you'll find millenials are more environmentally conscious and less likely to waste plastic with bottled water.

I have no idea why people buy bottled water for home. It seems like such a waste. I always see people in the supermarket with those multipacks of water in the trolly. Fair enough if you're out and about, but for home it seems a bit mad.

btw, nalgene are fecking amazing. Although I'd love one of those shiny sigg bottles.

Grayditch · 19-09-2018 01:58PM

"Deconstructed Avocado Toast" makes no sense. It was never constructed to be deconstructed. It's just unconstructed at best.

BBFAN · 19-09-2018 02:28PM

Grayson wrote: »

I have no idea why people buy bottled water for home. It seems like such a waste. I always see people in the supermarket with those multipacks of water in the trolly. Fair enough if you're out and about, but for home it seems a bit mad.

btw, nalgene are fecking amazing. Although I'd love one of those shiny sigg bottles.

I have friends from Poland who will not drink from the tap, maybe it's because their drinking water wasn't safe, don't know. I fill a water bottle from the tap and stick it the fridge before they come over.

Gwynplaine · 19-09-2018 02:48PM

Grayditch wrote: »

"Deconstructed Avocado Toast" makes no sense. It was never constructed to be deconstructed. It's just unconstructed at best.

Yeah but it was made for some fairy in brown shoes and no socks.

19-09-2018 03:20PM

Grayson wrote: »

I have no idea why people buy bottled water for home. It seems like such a waste. I always see people in the supermarket with those multipacks of water in the trolly. Fair enough if you're out and about, but for home it seems a bit mad.

btw, nalgene are fecking amazing. Although I'd love one of those shiny sigg bottles.

Because tap water while perfectly safe tastes bad in most places and its not sparkling and I drink mostly sparking water so I buy a 6 pack of 1.5L or 2L bottles of water every week.

19-09-2018 03:42PM

Would there be any connection between the housing issues and cultural changes in society? when we had the great confinement when by the 1950s 1% of the population was locked up in various institutions mostly psychiatric hospitals, then there were those living in religious community there were working men's hostels in all the cities and even large towns other people lived in digs for years etc, as all these have disappeared and rightly so in most cases.

Now everybody expects to be able to buy and live alone at least for a period of their lives and vulnerable people and those on low income have no choice except to compete with everyone else in the property market.

kunst nugget · 19-09-2018 03:49PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Would there be any connection between the housing issues and cultural changes in society? when we had the great confinement when by the 1950s 1% of the population was locked up in various institutions mostly psychiatric hospitals, then there were those living in religious community there were working men's hostels in all the cities and even large towns other people lived in digs for years etc, as all these have disappeared and rightly so in most cases.

Now everybody expects to be able to buy and live alone at least for a period of their lives and vulnerable people and those on low income have no choice except to compete with everyone else in the property market.

Hmm, if only mother and baby homes hadn't developed such a bad reputation over the last couple of years, we would have been able to free up some of that housing stock being used by single mothers.

19-09-2018 04:01PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Hmm, if only mother and baby homes hadn't developed such a bad reputation over the last couple of years, we would have been able to free up some of that housing stock being used by single mothers.

Of course, they and other ways of locking people up were a maladaptive way that society controlled and dealt with individuals that society nor their family did not want. http://www.thejournal.ie/history-of-psychiatry-ireland-book-brendan-kelly-3177461-Jan2017/

No wonder millennials can't afford a mortgage

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