No wonder millennials can't afford a mortgage

oceanman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Increasing worker insecurity is good for the economy, particularly via methods such as debt peonage, the more people that live in this manner, the better it is for the economy, maybe there's something wrong with 'the economy'!

can you please expand on that post..??

hobie21

This rental bubble is happening right across the world. Malta is another prime example. It suits the political class and our employer overlords to keep the working class tied to a ball and chain of debt so they will be good indentured productive employees.

Deebles McBeebles

hobie21 wrote: »

This rental bubble is happening right across the world. Malta is another prime example. It suits the political class and our employer overlords to keep the working class tied to a ball and chain of debt so they will be good indentured productive employees.

All over the world, buying and renting prices are going up. Homelessness, climate change, habitat loss...too many people. Which party is gonna tackle that one?

oceanman

oceanman wrote: »

can you please expand on that post..??

Some folk don't realise that broadly speaking the better the economy is the more we all can and do benefit.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

Some folk don't realise that broadly speaking the better the economy is the more we all can and do benefit.

whos 'economy' is spoken of when this is mentioned? is trickle down of the majority of wealth created from a prospering economy actually occurring?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augeo wrote: »

Some folk don't realise that broadly speaking the better the economy is the more we all can and do benefit.

I don’t think that’s what wanderer meant, he was being sarcastic. And it isn’t true anyway. If wages stagnate and rents increase the economy can increase without everybody bring better off.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

whos 'economy' is spoken of when this is mentioned? is trickle down of the majority of wealth created from a prospering economy actually occurring?

Employment is close to it's prepeak level iirc & Retail sales (perhaps the strongest indicator of consumer confidence) growing by 6 per cent.

When retail sales are very good there's plenty trickling down. Also when you consider the amount of stuff bought online from abroad that isn't included in the retail sales metric the growth in that metric is impressive.

The 'economy' spoken of is the one that benefits us all.

It won't extend to a free house etc for the do fnck alls but sure, how bad

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I don’t think that’s what wanderer meant, he was being sarcastic. And it isn’t true anyway. If wages stagnate and rents increase the economy can increase without everybody bring better off.

He wasn't being sarcastic at all, he feels there is something wrong with the economy as he's 100% a lefty and reckons redistributing wealth from corporations and well paid workers above what is currently done is the way to go and of net benefit to society.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

Employment is close to it's prepeak level iirc & Retail sales (perhaps the strongest indicator of consumer confidence) growing by 6 per cent.

When retail sales are very good there's plenty trickling down. Also when you consider the amount of stuff bought online from abroad that isn't included in the retail sales metric the growth in that metric is impressive.

The 'economy' spoken of is the one that benefits us all.

It won't extend to a free house etc for the do fnck alls but sure, how bad

....and you wonder why the neoliberial/neoclassical model is falling on its arse!

this isnt gonna end well for all!

An ole speel from BlindBoy .............. clap clap. Although Blindboy probably knows the difference between neoliberial & neoclassical.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

An ole speel from BlindBoy .............. clap clap.

thankfully theres plenty of well respected commentators writing about this now, but, run along!

There's plenty well respected citizens doing an honest days work too to provide for themselves, their families and those that don't bother their hole doing similar, run along yourself :pac:

Ray Palmer

I read through a lot of this and I can tell some people were not around in the times they are talking about. There is disillusion talk about how the early 90s were somehow great and houses were easily affordable.
Things radically changed around 92 and the boom really started then. Unemployment was very high and had been for a long time with massive emigration figures. High interest rates and stamp duty meant buying a property was not just the purchase price. Even in the 00s I paid €21k in stamp duty on a modest house which was needed without a mortgage on top of the deposit.
My brother is 3 years older than me and when he finished school he was expected to be leaving the country as was I 3 years made a huge difference as there was suddenly loads of jobs. I went looking for a job after college and did 4 interviews for large company offering entry jobs with full training. I was offered 3 of them the same day. That was 95 and still amazing to think of.
House prices were rising rapidly in the 90s as Ireland caught up with the rest of the world. Ireland had the highest home ownership per person in the world. Mothers stayed at home before then so everything was based on a single salary the rest of the western world that had changed and we caught up. Increasing our work force and uping our national output. It's progress
The standard of living now is way better and a lot more is expected. In the 90s the most expensive thing most people would carry was a walkman and not everyone had one. Now they have at least a €200 phone with a service they are paying for. At home you have to have a computer device and internet access which again is not an expense in the 90s. A tv would last about 15 years and only replaced when broken.
I watched the celtic tiger years and people did go crazy. The problem is the young adults were brought up in these years and think that was what it was like for their parents growing up. It wasn't the 70s up to the mid 90s were very similar to the bleachness of the 50s and 60s in Ireland.
Standard of living is way better for the majority but poverty and social issues remain

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augeo wrote: »

He wasn't being sarcastic at all, he feels there is something wrong with the economy as he's 100% a lefty and reckons redistributing wealth from corporations and well paid workers above what is currently done is the way to go and of net benefit to society.

I don’t know what exactly he believes re distribution. I think high paid workers pay enough. Corporations don’t but that’s a separate issue.

However the idea that a growth economy helps everybody is clearly false. It used to, but there’s been a disconnect between wage growth and economic growth recently. And of course renters aren’t better off compared to a few years ago.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augeo wrote: »

There's plenty well respected citizens doing an honest days work too to provide for themselves, their families and those that don't bother their hole doing similar, run along yourself :pac:

What about renters though?

Ray Palmer

Ray Palmer wrote: »

.............. poverty and social issues remain

Unfortunately poverty and social issues will always remain to an extent. Everyone with a mental, alcohol or substance abuse problem simply can't be catered for 100% of the time. We can strive to improve services etc of course but the expectation that everyone will be housed and we'll all live happily ever after is optimistic in the extreme.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

There's plenty well respected citizens doing an honest days work too to provide for themselves, their families and those that don't bother their hole doing similar, run along yourself :pac:

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What about renters though?

Renters would be included in the bolded bit.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Ray Palmer wrote: »

In the 90s the most expensive thing most people would carry was a walkman and not everyone had one. Now they have at least a €200 phone with a service they are paying for. At home you have to have a computer device and internet access which again is not an expense in the 90s. A tv would last about 15 years and only replaced when broken.

Technology moves on. However the cost of a mobile phone over 2-3 years isn’t that much. Look at what people paid for in the 90s for CDs and DVDs and box sets. We know that these industries have migrated to devices where they are less expensive. Also people don’t buy cameras or gps systems etc. Also the landline phone was extremely expensive.

I watched the celtic tiger years and people did go crazy. The problem is the young adults were brought up in these years and think that was what it was like for their parents growing up. It wasn't the 70s up to the mid 90s were very similar to the bleachness of the 50s and 60s in Ireland.
Standard of living is way better for the majority but poverty and social issues remain

Not at all. There was no comparison between the 50s and the 90s. There was in fact massive technological change from 1950 -1990 and mobile phones aside not much after.

None of this answers the question of house costs anyway. Yes the millenials could give up a 200 phone they use for 3 years and save themselves a few days rent but it’s not going to help with house ownership.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

................
However the idea that a growth economy helps everybody is clearly false. It used to, but there’s been a disconnect between wage growth and economic growth recently. And of course renters aren’t better off compared to a few years ago.

Rents were on the floor if you go back to 2010/2012, renters will never be better off compared to then ........

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augeo wrote: »

Renters would be included in the bolded bit.

That’s nice but are they doing better in the growing economy?

You started off saying that good economies benefit everybody. Then there’s the attack on the unemployed ( out of nowhere). Lots of goal post shifting. Why bring up the people who want a free house at all?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augeo wrote: »

Rents were on the floor if you go back to 2010/2012, renters will never be better off compared to then ........

So let me answer the question you are refusing to answer.

No. Economic growth doesn’t benefit everybody, not if a lot of the growth goes to extractive rentiers.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s nice but are they doing better in the growing economy?

You started off saying that good economies benefit everybody. Then there’s the attack on the unemployed ( out of nowhere). Lots of goal post shifting. Why bring up the people who want a free house at all?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

So let me answer the question you are refusing to answer.

No. Economic growth doesn’t benefit everybody, not if a lot of the growth goes to extractive rentiers.

Well someone renting in a growing economy who gets a few quid extra due to reduced tax is benefiting as opposed to that tax not being reduced.

If they live in Dublin and use the new Luas routes they are benefiting also.

If their rent increases their expenditure on housing increases, obviously. That doesn't negate the fact they are benefitting from an improved economy. Especially if they are now employed compared to being unemployed and living with the folks before the economy grew over the last 5/7 years

Do you think one can't benefit from a growing economy just because your rent increases? That's a bizarre view.
Just because my answers don't suit you does not mean I am "refusing to answer" btw.

mariaalice

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I don’t know what exactly he believes re distribution. I think high paid workers pay enough. Corporations don’t but that’s a separate issue.

However the idea that a growth economy helps everybody is clearly false. It used to, but there’s been a disconnect between wage growth and economic growth recently. And of course renters aren’t better off compared to a few years ago.

You have hit the central point of the matter, Bar the blip of the last downturn the problem of unemployment or more correctly access to economic wealth plus access to a high standard of education has been solved for most in the western world. The big problem is it now only provided for a precarious lifestyle if you are single.

What has happened is that the status and income of a lot of professions have dropped while those in IT and specialised financial services has soared which leads to teachers, professionals, nurses ect and those in the public service getting angry and upset as they were lead to believe that the professions were the keys to comfortable middle-class lifestyle which they certainly would have been in the past.

It is perfectly acceptable to wonder how they have a masters in whatever and can't get the same house as their parents who managed to buy a house aged 23 and with a job as a carpenter and retail worker.

In the early 90s secondary teachers and most parents with any interest in their kids were peddling a speel that you'd need a degree or a trade to get any sort of decent job and that the LC alone was going to be fairly useless.

That turned out to be the case. Now a degree, trade or being a nurse etc doesn't give the key to middle class heaven, shock horror.

Now there are plenty in the PS doing clerical work (€10/hour jobs in the private sector) earning almost as much if not more than nurses and AGS etc. That's looney as well but it won't be addressed.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

mariaalice

Augeo wrote: »

In the early 90s secondary teachers and most parents with any interest in their kids were peddling a speel that you'd need a degree or a trade to get any sort of decent job and that the LC alone was going to be fairly useless.

That turned out to be the case. Now a degree, trade or being a nurse etc doesn't give the key to middle class heaven, shock horror.

But that is what is going on if we have the professions our children has back in the 1980s we were starting out we would have been very well off. The area where I lived with my first husband in the 1980s to buy today you would need to be a millionaire no exaggeration.

Markcheese

There's lots of factors..
I spend more on my phone bill monthly than I do on electricity... And that's an on going expense, there is higher car ownership and use.. More people do eat out, spend on coffee ect,..... On the flip side less is spent on fags and in pubs..
The Building cost of Houses and whats in them is significantly higher.. 70s /80s houses were thrown up very cheaply
The big difference now though is the site value..
And that seems to be being protected by government... It's a tightrope

Wanderer78

Markcheese wrote: »

There's lots of factors..
I spend more on my phone bill monthly than I do on electricity... And that's an on going expense, there is higher car ownership and use.. More people do eat out, spend on coffee ect,..... On the flip side less is spent on fags and in pubs..
The Building cost of Houses and whats in them is significantly higher.. 70s /80s houses were thrown up very cheaply
The big difference now though is the site value..
And that seems to be being protected by government... It's a tightrope

is it time for a land value tax?

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

But that is what is going on if we have the professions our children has back in the 1980s we were starting out we would have been very well off...........

No doubt, because back then not as many went to 3rd level or further education. Many left school at 16.

Now a trade or 3rd level qualification is required to land most semi decent jobs and as mentioned there is an over supply of arts, commerce, marketing, etc graduates so there's no need for high salaries to get them in the door as there's loads of them about.

Patrick2010

troyzer wrote: »

I'm a millenial. Depends on the day of course but most days I'd be getting lunch and dinner at around the €10-€15 mark. Weetabix in the morning. Job done.

I make €30k a year. That's why I can't afford a mortgage. You can buy a six pack of avocados in Lidl for €2. I don't know why old farts keep latching onto avocados as the reason why millenials have it ****. And we do have it ****.

Sound for leaving us all of that debt and making it impossible for us to ever leave the nest.

Have you explained this to your parents and have they apologized?