No wonder millennials can't afford a mortgage

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

eviltwin

andekwarhola wrote: »

For every millennial gag here, there's plenty of swipes about the supposedly entitled generation preceding it.

My sympathy is squarely with the people affected by the lack of social housing and dysfunctional rental sector. For home buyers who can't deal with being priced out to the suburbs and commuter belt, less so.

Inclined to agree. I know a lot of my peers are living in rural areas and commuting because that's all they could afford at the time. Yeah it's a pain but they just get on with it. On the flip side I have a friend constantly giving out about not being able to afford a house, he's well able to buy a house just not the 4 bed semi in his home town.

Hitman3000

jmayo wrote:

Times have changed and people now face new challenges, but I am sick and tired of one group blaming another for their problems or claiming ones that went before had it fooking easy.

Well said.Finally some sense instead of attempting to blame a different generation. As an aside my parents paid 13 per cent interest on their mortgage in the 80's.

Grayson

andekwarhola wrote: »

For every millennial gag here, there's plenty of swipes about the supposedly entitled generation preceding it.

My sympathy is squarely with the people affected by the lack of social housing and dysfunctional rental sector. For home buyers who can't deal with being priced out to the suburbs and commuter belt, less so.

is anyone saying they're entitled? I think people are saying that it's a completely different world where younger people are as a disadvantage that older people didn't have. And it's not just about the suburbs. You're talking about 20 miles from the city.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Augeo wrote: »

Isabel Fat Student wrote: »

At that point I was just out of college, and I did, actually. Sh1tloads of volunteering which was pretty productive, and got a postgrad. Some folks will always have their lazy assumptions

Well the ole post grad and the preceding college years don't seem to have turned into much of a pocket liner for you, given your b1tching and moaning about property and rent prices etc etc

No they were an alright pocket liner actually, just not enough to keep up with rents rising far faster than wages. As I said I'm not aiming to own a house, just rent something, somewhere.

Where would you like to put the goal posts next boss?

Isabel Fat Student

Isabel Fat Student wrote: »

..........

Where would you like to put the goal posts next boss?

Was just chatting
Cheers for the positive participation.

zell12

Also, due to internet, anyone in the world can view and buy in Ireland - do they need ppsn?

smelly sock

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm guessing their portions are in the smaller side but maybe not too much so. You'd be surprised how far money can stretch making stuff from scratch. I've priced bolognese/pasta (about 500g each portion) and a 9" pizza (including cheese and sauce) at less than €1 to make each for an example.

Id say your gas craic having a few pints.

Grayson

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

what does that work out at in real terms though? is 11% of the average house price then the same as 3% of it now? because without those figures and the average wage it's not relevant. according to the CSO the average house price then, in Dublin was £11,000 in 1975 (the earliest figure I could find). The same site says in 2016 it was 391k for a new house and 363 for a second hand house.

And then there's this.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hes/hes2015/aiw/

in 1975 real wages (adjusted for inflation etc) work out at €391 euro. in 2015 it's €695. So wages have gone up in real terms by 56% (according to my rough calculations) but house prices have increased by far more.

(Edit: btw, I checked price for inflation on this calculator.
https://www.cso.ie/en/interactivezone/visualisationtools/cpiinflationcalculator/

11,000 euros in 1975 translates to about 76k now. Yes, it's euro to euro. I couldn't be bothered translating punt to euro to euro )

Really what we're arguing is have house prices gone up massively compared with what people can afford. I think that's true. It's been happening since the 90's and now it's compounded with a rental crises which means it's harder and harder to save to get on the property ladder.

zell12

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm guessing their portions are in the smaller side but maybe not too much so. You'd be surprised how far money can stretch making stuff from scratch. I've priced bolognese/pasta (about 500g each portion) and a 9" pizza (including cheese and sauce) at less than €1 to make each for an example.

Aldi published some family meal recipes recently including cost per person
A girl called jack is excellent
https://cookingonabootstrap.com
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jul/20/10-pound-a-week-recipes

sbsquarepants

dhaughton99 wrote: »

I’m 44 and never tasted an avocado. .

You aren't missing much.

I've young kids, they have all wolfed them down to begin with, but as soon as they're old enough to not just eat whatever bland mush you shovel into them they stop.

I can't for the life of me understand why any sane person would eat them for breakfast - or for any other meal time!

smelly sock

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You aren't missing much.

I've young kids, they have all wolfed them down to begin with, but as soon as they're old enough to not just eat whatever bland mush you shovel into them they stop.

I can't for the life of me understand why any sane person would eat them for breakfast - or for any other meal time!

A bit like blueberries. You try an convince yourself they taste nice when in fact they taste like **** are are rotten most of the time.

Shanotheslayer

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What happened then? That's a massive drop.

jam_mac_jam

smelly sock wrote: »

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You aren't missing much.

I've young kids, they have all wolfed them down to begin with, but as soon as they're old enough to not just eat whatever bland mush you shovel into them they stop.

I can't for the life of me understand why any sane person would eat them for breakfast - or for any other meal time!

A bit like blueberries. You try an convince yourself they taste nice when in fact they taste like **** are are rotten most of the time.

I love blueberries.

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

...........

I can't for the life of me understand why any sane person would eat them for breakfast - or for any other meal time!

Decent source of non egg, non dairy and non meat monounsaturated fatty acids

smelly sock

Generally anyone who owns a house wont have any savings.


Avocados are bland. 2 slices of batch with lashings of dairygold and a few sauces.

kylith

andekwarhola wrote: »

My sympathy is squarely with the people affected by the lack of social housing and dysfunctional rental sector. For home buyers who can't deal with being priced out to the suburbs and commuter belt, less so.

What about the people who can't get on the property ladder because of the dysfunctional rental sector? It's hard to save up a deposit to buy when you're spending a huge chunk of your wages on rent every month.

andekwarhola

Grayson wrote: »

is anyone saying they're entitled? I think people are saying that it's a completely different world where younger people are as a disadvantage that older people didn't have. And it's not just about the suburbs. You're talking about 20 miles from the city.

People have always had to cut their cloth to what they can afford. Despite all the homilies about the 80s, most people couldn't afford to buy in nice areas.

I guess the elephant in the room these days is that people that can't afford mortgages (of which there has and always will be) have less and less of a safety net of social housing or private renting, which is really the most pressing issue.

Bigmac1euro

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

Doctor Jimbob

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

Calculations are clearly flawed, avocados haven't been accounted for.

smelly sock

smelly sock wrote: »

Generally anyone who owns a house wont have any savings.............

Generally the only savings someone without a house has will be for a deposit or for future rent payments if they never buy.

MetzgerMeister

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

Back in the day stamp duty was much much more than what it is now.

Bandana boy

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Back in the day stamp duty was much much more than what it is now.

Also access to cash was far harder , interest rates hit 18-20% in that time period

Grayson

Bandana boy wrote: »

Also access to cash was far harder , interest rates hit 18-20% in that time period

Someone posted the interest rates a page back. they weren't that high in 88.

daheff

EdgeCase wrote: »

They can't afford a mortgage because the previous generation spent all the money on a massive housing bubble and the banks and sector are trying to claw those losses back from the current generation.

You cant afford a mortgage because your wages are too low vs the cost of property. Central bank rules limit you to 3.5x salary. Maybe blame your employer for not paying you enough to buy a property (or your landlord for trying to take more of your income in rent).....or the people selling properties that are outside your limits. Its not because people are trying to claw back losses.

EdgeCase wrote: »

That avocado toast comment came from an Australian interview with someone lecturing the current generation for daring to complain about their housing bubble.

If people have to skip breakfast and are at the pin of the collar to afford housing, that is terrible for the economy! It means people have no disposable income and that means no money circulating and fewer jobs and less investment.

Telling people to stop spending money = no shops, no cafes, no restaurants, dying Main Streets in small towns and 3 jobs at Aldi and anything else ordered online at lowest price possible.

We need to have realistically priced homes that people can actually afford, not lecturing people about a bit of fruit and a slice of toast.

It's unbelievably patronising.

You missed Tim Gurner's point completely. He didnt suggest people go without breakfast!

His point was that Millennials expected to be able to buy property at ease and without any sacrifice. In days gone past (2000s boom time included) people saved hard to get together deposits.

He suggested that Millennials would be better able to afford property deposits by sacrificing these luxury items and saving the money instead. Its not patronising. Its common sense.

EdgeCase wrote: »

If we don't get a bit realistic about housing here we will at best choke off economic growth due to lack of accessible housing or, we will go head first into another financial crash.

A properly functioning country has housing at an affordable price and can manage to actually have a good lifestyle. Being able to afford an avocado is hardly the measure of extreme opulence.

I think whats really happened over the past 10-20 years is that companies are making higher profits than ever before but not passing increased wages back to employees.

In real terms employees are making less than previous generations, landlords are better able to increase rents to take more of your disposable income, there are more consumer products that are 'necessary' (new iphone every 12months??) so property is less affordable because you have less disposable income.

And because more companies (REITs) are buying up more property (in cash) the price of property is going to be unaffordable to individuals very soon. Companies are not subject to the 3.5x salary mortgage limits that individuals are.The only way to keep property affordable for people is to limit the amount of residential property that can be bought by companies.

troyzer

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

draiochtanois wrote: »

1993 13.99%
1994 7.49%

What happened then? That's a massive drop.

The ERM band changed significantly in 1993. That's probably a factor.

daheff

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

the other thing you have to factor into this is demand and supply.


Back in the 80s there was no supply constraint like there is today.....but there wasnt huge demands either...people were emigrating in their droves still. When they stopped emigrating and people came back demand & supply curve changed and salary vs house price ratio changed.

if we have huge supply now, prices would not be where they are now.

ShadowHearth

As a chef, can I just say this: why the hell this deconstructed food is even a thing?!?! I though I am getting payed to construct food for people, so they dont need to do it themselves?!?!


Being a chef has a lot of drawbacks, but there is one big advantage: I work 12h shift and I wont spend a penny on food or coffee. I have my breakfast, lunch, dinner and all the coffee at work. My work expenses are only petrol and washing my uniforms.
I was shocked when I found out how much my misses can spend working in office on lunches and coffee. It can rack up very damn fast.

Bigmac1euro

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Back in the day stamp duty was much much more than what it is now.

Was it €312,500 ?

Billy86

andekwarhola wrote: »

For every millennial gag here, there's plenty of swipes about the supposedly entitled generation preceding it.

My sympathy is squarely with the people affected by the lack of social housing and dysfunctional rental sector. For home buyers who can't deal with being priced out to the suburbs and commuter belt, less so.

Just to be sure, you are aware that the dysfunctional rent sector is in no small part both a result of and contributor to the lack of options for first time buyers?