No wonder millennials can't afford a mortgage

SEPT 23 1989

Starter homes mid 90's

Lucan/ Clondalkin 30 -35k punts

The next step late 90's

Walkinstown 55k

Done on one income

300k - 450k now

andekwarhola

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Starter homes mid 90's

Lucan/ Clondalkin 30 -35k punts

The next step late 90's

Walkinstown 55k

Done on one income

300k - 450k now

180 about 6 years ago. Just hold on a few years

tabby aspreme

andekwarhola wrote: »

Found this article from 1989 that mentions semis in terenure going for between 57k to 90+ k. Terenure is a middle class area about 3 or 4 miles from Dublin City centre.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/rising-dublin-house-prices-in-the-1980s-from-the-archives-may-16th-1989-1.2212646

In 1989 a single person would have had great difficulty paying a 60k mortgage with the interest rate level and the paye rate, back then I could gross 400 on a good week, but would take home 200.

Try_harder

kunst nugget wrote: »

What Baby Boomer generation? The one over in America? Because that didn't exist in Ireland.

Well Millennial and Gen X are the given terms also why object to baby boomers?

Bigmac1euro

Lincoln Cold Tremor wrote: »

Good article, that's 2-3 times the 27k price mentioned above.

It says in that article a house went for 57k after a 77% increase in 12 months

P_1

andekwarhola wrote: »

I think I vaguely remember my parents saying around 87 or a bit later that neighbours (that moved) paid 50k for a house in one of the settled parts of Tallaght near the village.

Remember it because I remember thinking it was such a big amount of money as you did when young.

The coalition government at the time gave housing grants, of 5k I think, to council tenants to move out and buy their own houses which would be accurate enough given it was 10%.

Remember the folks saying they paid 13k for a 3 bed in Donaghmede in 84

Franz Von Peppercorn

tabby aspreme wrote: »

In 1989 a single person would have had great difficulty paying a 60k mortgage with the interest rate level and the paye rate, back then I could gross 400 on a good week, but would take home 200.

Houses in Terenure now sell for up to 1M. Why use that as an example. Middle income north side areas (excluding howth abd maybe Clontarf) would be more interesting.

fergus1001

going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here

anyone in Dublin on the housing list and who does not have a job in Dublin should be relocated to the Midlands or west were rent is cheaper, It is unacceptable that my tax euros goes to house people in Dublin who are not contributing while I cannot afford a house in kildare while I am working and paying tax

somefeen

fergus1001 wrote: »

going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here

anyone in Dublin on the housing list and who does not have a job in Dublin should be relocated to the Midlands or west were rent is cheaper, It is unacceptable that my tax euros goes to house people in Dublin who are not contributing while I cannot afford a house in kildare while I am working and paying tax

That's a good point but the theory is that keeping people close to their families and parents contributes to a sense of community and stops the elderly from becoming isolated.

I think they take it to far though. When I went on the housing list in Cork I was asked to rank the suburb I wanted to live in. Corks not exactly massive so why does it matter?

q85dw7osi4lebg

somefeen wrote: »

That's a good point but the theory is that keeping people close to their families and parents contributes to a sense of community and stops the elderly from becoming isolated.

I think they take it to far though. When I went on the housing list in Cork I was asked to rank the suburb I wanted to live in. Corks not exactly massive so why does it matter?

So those paying taxes shouldn't be able to afford to live near their parents, but they pay for others to do so??

divillybit

troyzer wrote: »

If you're 33 and own a house with no debt you either inherited it, are a drug dealer or have a particularly well paying job. Which is probably really rare and thus pointless to use as an example for the rest of us.

Im 33 and bought my own house by myself for 190k.. no inheritance, no bank of mum and dad... just hard work and discipline and from that I got a lucky break or two..but I remember buying a book in 2008 when I was 23, called Ireland's House party by Derek Brawn.. it was the time that the economy was slowing down big time. I've read that book several times over since I bought it.. it focused my mind on buying a house from a young age but also about negative equity and leveraging... Buying a house is likely the biggest purchase you'll ever make and its good to get thinking about this in your 20's when you start working as its the time when you have the most disposable income and can start saving. So I do really sympathise with people trying to save up while paying big rents..

ligerdub

tabby aspreme wrote:

In 1989 a single person would have had great difficulty paying a 60k mortgage with the interest rate level and the paye rate, back then I could gross 400 on a good week, but would take home 200.

And then what happened?

Interest rates trended lower for years and years, wages went up massively and taxes came down. Even adjusting for the net pay it's still a lower cost than the equivalent today.

A single person could still get a reasonably nice place, and there was quite a lot fewer single people back then. Nowadays there are more single people and it's harder for them to get going.

Going back to the 80s/90s example, those people ended up with big assets, and major tailwinds in affordability. People now are faced with mostly buying older in their lives, meaning having less flexibility of term, starting at a low interest rate, meaning it's only going to be more expensive to repay (as they will rise at some point), and buying at an extremely high price.

The whole thing is a total ****show now.

The idea of buying a house in Ireland sounds absolutely awful due to everything listed in this thread.

It's no often I feel sorry for people who can't afford something like a house, but some of the details on here have been a bit of an eye-opener.


I've no interest in getting one in Ireland but might look at getting one where I am in the next five years or so.

Subcomandante Marcos

fergus1001 wrote: »

going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here

anyone in Dublin on the housing list and who does not have a job in Dublin should be relocated to the Midlands or west were rent is cheaper, It is unacceptable that my tax euros goes to house people in Dublin who are not contributing while I cannot afford a house in kildare while I am working and paying tax

Literally one of the most economically idiotic suggestions imaginable.

mvl

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea of buying a house in Ireland sounds absolutely awful due to everything listed in this thread.

It's no often I feel sorry for people who can't afford something like a house, but some of the details on here have been a bit of an eye-opener.


I've no interest in getting one in Ireland but might look at getting one where I am in the next five years or so.

... for a while I was debt free. owning a backup place (flat) on the continental europe, while paying rent in here gave me a sense of security in a way, until a personal event got me to want to cut ties with that country, and setup our home here; so I got my irish mortgage only after I paid 100k in rent while working here.
retrospectively, I should have done this years ago. so next time I will move country, I would consider moving my home sooner.

Unlike Switzerland's home ownership challenges (there is always worse than Ireland), based on my experience, I think mortgages in Ireland are affordable for professional individuals (single income or not).
but each with their own priorities.

fergus1001

Subcomandante Marcos wrote:

Literally one of the most economically idiotic suggestions imaginable.

seriously how ?

TCM

SilverPenney wrote:

Am millennial, me and my partner only shop at Aldi and Lidl, bring packed lunches to work/university, comes to about 50 a week overall for food for the both of us. If houses were as affordable they were in my parents time (a 3 bed semi for 21 grand in 1990 and a two bed cottage for 14 grand in 1995, all within 30 minutes of a city), then I'm sure we'd be happily paying a mortgage off.

Those are fairy figures.

andekwarhola

fergus1001 wrote: »

seriously how ?

A lot of social housing tenants pay rent, for example. A far better scenario for all involved than ponying taxpayers money into the private rental and hotel sectors.

I'd rather housing policy was dictated by common sense than spite about the unemployed, but that's just me.

troyzer

andekwarhola wrote: »

180 about 6 years ago. Just hold on a few years

It was €180k for a reason, nobody could get a mortgage.

andekwarhola

troyzer wrote: »

It was €180k for a reason, nobody could get a mortgage.

I know quite a few that did. Fair play to them. They sat tight and it paid off.

troyzer

divillybit wrote: »

Im 33 and bought my own house by myself for 190k.. no inheritance, no bank of mum and dad... just hard work and discipline and from that I got a lucky break or two..but I remember buying a book in 2008 when I was 23, called Ireland's House party by Derek Brawn.. it was the time that the economy was slowing down big time. I've read that book several times over since I bought it.. it focused my mind on buying a house from a young age but also about negative equity and leveraging... Buying a house is likely the biggest purchase you'll ever make and its good to get thinking about this in your 20's when you start working as its the time when you have the most disposable income and can start saving. So I do really sympathise with people trying to save up while paying big rents..

How did you do it in practical terms? Where is the house? €190k for Dublin is probably near the bottom of the cycle, 2012.

If you're 33 now, you were 28 then. I finished my education when I was 23.

So how did you do it? Because there's absolutely no way I could do it. Doesn't matter how hard I worked. I've already said elsewhere that I save around 30-40% of my salary and that's with me living at home, no rent.

I'm doing everything right. I got a really good education, good grades, worked hard when I graduated, I was flexible and moved to Australia for a while for the $$$.

Explain to me what I've done wrong and what you did right.

P_1

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Literally one of the most economically idiotic suggestions imaginable.

Not a great idea but you can see where the frustration comes from.

Should thought be given to relocating those who refuse to engage out west though? And by dint engage I mean people not looking for work or not on courses etc

facehugger99

troyzer wrote: »

It was €180k for a reason, nobody could get a mortgage.

Plenty of mortgages available for those who wanted them - nobody wanting to buy in a falling market was a huge issue.

troyzer

facehugger99 wrote: »

Plenty of mortgages available for those who wanted them - nobody wanting to buy in a falling market was a huge issue.

It's not about people wanting them. Banks in general were more cautious and very few people were untouched by the 15% unemployment rate, tax hikes and wage cuts.

Well done to the very, very lucky few who were in a great position to buy in such a favourable market but there is a reason it was so favourable: not many people were able to buy.

None of this applies to me because I turned 18 in 2010 and was in full time education until 2016. So dismissing the angst of people my age by saying a few older people managed to get a house a few years is a bit useless.

andekwarhola

troyzer wrote: »

It's not about people wanting them. Banks in general were more cautious and very few people were untouched by the 15% unemployment rate, tax hikes and wage cuts.

Well done to the very, very lucky few who were in a great position to buy in such a favourable market but there is a reason it was so favourable: not many people were able to buy.

None of this applies to me because I turned 18 in 2010 and was in full time education until 2016. So dismissing the angst of people my age by saying a few older people managed to get a house a few years is a bit useless.

They were giving out mortgages, just not to the extent of the boom years. Nobody I know that had a deposit and enough combined income were turned down. And none of them are well off either.

Like you say, it's just a matter of timing and luck really. Rents were lower so easier to save. One friend of mine, for example, moved home for 3 plus years and put away the deposit handy enough and bought in 2012 for about half of what he'd pay now.

I don't begrudge him. Things just worked out very handy for him and I'm happy for him.

Poor_old_gill

There's prob no set of advice that you can give to people that will be a catch-all as circumstances differ across the board.

I have been lucky enough that a few things have fell into place for me and I was able to afford a place a couple of years back-my folks arent wealthy but my older brother did well for himself abroad and gave me a hand - i'm not being smug and know how lucky I am to have had this option.

However people keep talking about incomes being too low to afford places- I still see it as a supply issue and the need to build up is an imperative. Prices are dictated by location and relative location (as thats what drives demand) and when ever we add to the housing stock we just build out rather than up.

The majority of working people in the country can afford a house- it's just that location is too far from where they want to work as all the good, single build locations are bought/retained by those with wealth.

The issue of housing will never be resolved until this issue is- it should be one of the biggest items on the next electoral ballot.

troyzer

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

There's prob no set of advice that you can give to people that will be a catch-all as circumstances differ across the board.

I have been lucky enough that a few things have fell into place for me and I was able to afford a place a couple of years back-my folks arent wealthy but my older brother did well for himself abroad and gave me a hand - i'm not being smug and know how lucky I am to have had this option.

However people keep talking about incomes being too low to afford places- I still see it as a supply issue and the need to build up is an imperative. Prices are dictated by location and relative location (as thats what drives demand) and when ever we add to the housing stock we just build out rather than up.

The majority of working people in the country can afford a house- it's just that location is too far from where they want need to work as all the good, single build locations are bought/retained by those with wealth.

The issue of housing will never be resolved until this issue is- it should be one of the biggest items on the next electoral ballot.

Fixed it for you. I'd happily do my job on the side of a hill in Leitrim if I could. I can't.

Increasing housing supply will lead to a drop in house prices, yes. And then you'll have an angry mob of people complaining about negative equity.

Your fortune is someone else's misfortune. For you to get a house cheap, somebody else probably lost their arse on it. For your house to be valuable means nobody else can get a house in that area. You can't solve the housing crisis without huge political will to shaft current homeowners.

It'll never happen.

Planning my Canadian permanent residency as we speak......

andekwarhola

andekwarhola wrote: »

A lot of social housing tenants pay rent,............

They pay tiny rent.

Poor_old_gill

troyzer wrote: »

Fixed it for you. I'd happily do my job on the side of a hill in Leitrim if I could. I can't.

Increasing housing supply will lead to a drop in house prices, yes. And then you'll have an angry mob of people complaining about negative equity.

Your fortune is someone else's misfortune. For you to get a house cheap, somebody else probably lost their arse on it. For your house to be valuable means nobody else can get a house in that area. You can't solve the housing crisis without huge political will to shaft current homeowners.

It'll never happen.

Planning my Canadian permanent residency as we speak......

So your suggestion of a solution is?

mariaalice

troyzer wrote: »

Fixed it for you. I'd happily do my job on the side of a hill in Leitrim if I could. I can't.

Increasing housing supply will lead to a drop in house prices, yes. And then you'll have an angry mob of people complaining about negative equity.

Your fortune is someone else's misfortune. For you to get a house cheap, somebody else probably lost their arse on it. For your house to be valuable means nobody else can get a house in that area. You can't solve the housing crisis without huge political will to shaft current homeowners.

It'll never happen.

Planning my Canadian permanent residency as we speak......

A genuine question is a property cheaper in the choices bit of Canada i.e cool and interesting bits of Vancouver Island where a lot a people what to live because you have to compare like with like.