Formula E - Gen.2

Charlie-Bravo · 17-09-2018 9:36pm #1

Worth starting a new thread on this as we lead up to the new season 2018/2019 with the second generation of cars coming online. No more silly car changeovers mid-race but will the new cars make it interesting without the pit stops midway through.

How will FE be interesting if you can't overtake in the tight city-based tracks. FE organisers need to keep the races accessible by not making it an exclusive event and not to take races out of cities. Maybe cars will be faster, but maybe races will just end up being processions due to lack of overtaking on tight tracks.

BMW have revealed their Gen 2 car and the colour scheme seems neat but basic.

https://www.motorsport.com/in/formula-e/news/bmw-formula-fe-photo-gallery/3176942/

Feel free to post your thoughts and any links to other cars.

H3llR4iser · 18-09-2018 1:29pm

Eliminating the car change is a step in the right direction - that fact alone was silly and defeated the purpose of Formula E: to show electric cars being capable of running races. It was "yep, sorry, still can't to the freaking distance!".

The next step should be to introduce a recharge cycle - forcing teams and manufacturers to research into it. Regardless of what religious-fundamentalist-like fans of EV say, until they can be fully recharged in the same time it takes to fill up a tank of petrol, they won't be commercially viable on a large scale (provided batteries are the way to go, which I'm not sure about).

I seriously dislike the looks of the "Gen 2" car: it's bulky, it's ungainly, looks like something out of a child's fantasy (reminds me of the "Mini 4WD" cartoons/toys) and most importantly, it's not a "formula" car, as it's simply not open wheels (you can't see the wheels from the top nor the front). It's more of a sport prototype, which clashes with the "Formula E" definition. It's however an understandable exercise in trying to gain the youngest audience interest (and a sneaky, sneaky, sneaky way to massively reduce drag to actually allow the cars to make race distance).

Inviere · 18-09-2018 2:20pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

(and a sneaky, sneaky, sneaky way to massively reduce drag to actually allow the cars to make race distance).

My thoughts exactly. I do, however, like the design. As for how it can progress? Yes, eliminating car changes is a step in the right direction. In my opinion though, they need to seriously look at doing something with the tracks, they're beyond bad. Yes I know the cars wouldn't translate well onto an actual racetrack as they'd show how slow they are, but the current tracks, and nothing short of painful to watch.

H3llR4iser · 18-09-2018 4:29pm

Inviere wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. I do, however, like the design. As for how it can progress? Yes, eliminating car changes is a step in the right direction. In my opinion though, they need to seriously look at doing something with the tracks, they're beyond bad. Yes I know the cars wouldn't translate well onto an actual racetrack as they'd show how slow they are, but the current tracks, and nothing short of painful to watch.

Fully agreed - with few exceptions, my mind immediately goes to Mario Kart when I see the snaking, twisty narrow mess most tracks are. Somehow, they manage to even make Rome and Paris look drab and flat...which is quite an achievement.

Rossi IRL · 18-09-2018 4:35pm

I would start watching it more regularly if they raced on some better/more familiar tracks. Even if they go to 3 or 4 proper tracks and then for Monaco just do the full track it would be a big step in the right direction for me.

Exciting to see Rosberg and Massa racing again.

Cars look OK from the small few images iv seen.

flazio · 18-09-2018 4:41pm

One thing you need to remember about the Formula E founder Alejandro Agag's ethos is that FE must have as small a carbon footprint as possible. Therefore the circuits must be accessible by public transport and not by cars or coaches. As most "traditional" circuits are outside of population centres public transport is usually limited.

Inviere · 18-09-2018 4:47pm

Catch fencing, catch fencing, and more catch fencing. The tracks may as well all be on the same land, with just redesigned circuits (everything looks exactly the same no matter where they're racing).

Cookie_Monster · 18-09-2018 8:39pm

flazio wrote: »

One thing you need to remember about the Formula E founder Alejandro Agag's ethos is that FE must have as small a carbon footprint as possible.

:pac::pac::pac:

Do it all in one country then... As soon as you start the circus globe-trotting around the world that argument goes out the window. How many planes and trucks does it take to make it to each race?

flazio · 18-09-2018 9:12pm

I'm not here to defend or praise the ethos. I'm just telling you as it is. Agog doesn't want people driving to attend his races if it can be avoided.

AMKC · 18-09-2018 9:34pm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

I would start watching it more regularly if they raced on some better/more familiar tracks. Even if they go to 3 or 4 proper tracks and then for Monaco just do the full track it would be a big step in the right direction for me.

Exciting to see Rosberg and Massa racing again.

Cars look OK from the small few images iv seen.

Rosberg will not be racing in but he does have a big interest in it and think he has invested in it.
Massa will be racing in it.

Rossi IRL · 18-09-2018 10:34pm

AMKC wrote: »

Rosberg will not be racing in but he does have a big interest in it and think he has invested in it.
Massa will be racing in it.

That's a shame, I really thought he was racing this season.

Inviere · 19-09-2018 3:27pm

flazio wrote: »

I'm not here to defend or praise the ethos. I'm just telling you as it is. Agog doesn't want people driving to attend his races if it can be avoided.

It's as if the energy used to charge the car batteries comes from pixie dust :rolleyes: (not directed at you at all btw)

Rossi IRL · 19-09-2018 5:04pm

Inviere wrote: »

It's as if the energy used to charge the car batteries comes from pixie dust :rolleyes: (not directed at you at all btw)

All the equipment and drivers and teams walk from country to country aswell, no planes involved at all....

Inviere · 19-09-2018 5:10pm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

All the equipment and drivers and teams walk from country to country aswell, no planes involved at all....

I'm all for environmental improvements and reducing our impact, but lets call a spade a spade, motorsport in any form, and in particular its travelling circus, isn't at all 'green' in any way.

Charlie-Bravo · 20-09-2018 3:37pm

Jaguar have launched their car: looks a little bit broken up but I'm sure someone can put it together again

Or, here's the competed car if you need help assembling...

jaguaritype3ontrackfrontright34180918-resize-1221x814-crop-1140x814.jpg

Cookie_Monster · 20-09-2018 8:45pm

0 to 100 in 2.8s and vmax of 250kph, why exactly are they worried they look slow on proper tracks?

Ok it's not F1 fast but still...

H3llR4iser · 21-09-2018 10:57am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

0 to 100 in 2.8s and vmax of 250kph, why exactly are they worried they look slow on proper tracks?

Ok it's not F1 fast but still...

Because they would indeed look slow - touring car slow, as a matter of fact; They'll be slower than F3 cars, while the comparison will inevitably be with F1 (F.E pride themselves as the "electric F1", afterall).

Something like the Barcelona pit straight would take comparatively forever to complete; They'd also be slow on fast bends compared to other single seaters due to the nearly non-existent downforce; Tracks featuring heavy and prolonged acceleration zones like Montreal would murder the batteries and make it next to impossible for drivers to finish the race (ICE race cars run into fuel issues on those). Longer laps like Monza, not to mention Spa, would make it clear the races are very short - 17 and 14 laps respectively (yep, they're moving to a 45 minutes timed race, but they wouldn't complete many more laps in that time).

In short, racing "normal" tracks would expose all of the weaknesses of the electric race cars, which the current tracks are designed on purpose to conceal.

Cookie_Monster · 22-09-2018 3:02am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Because they would indeed look slow - touring car slow, as a matter of fact; They'll be slower than F3 cars, while the comparison will inevitably be with F1 (F.E pride themselves as the "electric F1", afterall).

"touring car slow" leads to far far better racing though...

the faster f1 has gotten recently the worse the racing has become too, speed isn't everything.

flazio · 22-09-2018 7:42am

Look at it this way, if the model of racing was that bad, they wouldn't be launching their 5th season would they? Anyone remember A1GP?

Charlie-Bravo · 22-09-2018 10:39am

flazio wrote: »

Look at it this way, if the model of racing was that bad, they wouldn't be launching their 5th season would they? Anyone remember A1GP?

A1 Team Ireland are reigning champions. That is all.

H3llR4iser · 22-09-2018 9:55pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

"touring car slow" leads to far far better racing though...

the faster f1 has gotten recently the worse the racing has become too, speed isn't everything.

Absolutely true - I have been saying this since before the current rules, when every idiot in front of a TV was screaming "F1 should be fashhhhterrr!!!" - faster cars mean zero margin of error and a razorblade thin limit, resulting in processional races.

Yet, Formula E markets itself as the "Electric F1", so showing the world they can't even keep up with what the average spectator sees as "toy cars for kid drivers" (e.g. F3) would be a massive blow.

Inviere · 23-09-2018 11:55am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Absolutely true - I have been saying this since before the current rules, when every idiot in front of a TV was screaming "F1 should be fashhhhterrr!!!" - faster cars mean zero margin of error and a razorblade thin limit, resulting in processional races.

I remember that a few seasons back, people made the point that there were lap records standing for 10+ seasons, and that current F1 cars were 5/6/7/8 seconds a lap slower than cars of eras gone by. So we got the cars we have today, destroying lap records but can’t follow or pass each other.

Yet, Formula E markets itself as the "Electric F1", so showing the world they can't even keep up with what the average spectator sees as "toy cars for kid drivers" (e.g. F3) would be a massive blow.

Similar logic applies to F1 too, as in, it kinda has to show its speed if it’s claiming to be the pinnacle of Motorsport open wheel racing. Imagine the F2 cars were quicker, it’d hurt F1. So it’s caught between a rock and a hard place...be faster than everything else, but provide great racing.

H3llR4iser · 24-09-2018 8:54am

Inviere wrote: »

I remember that a few seasons back, people made the point that there were lap records standing for 10+ seasons, and that current F1 cars were 5/6/7/8 seconds a lap slower than cars of eras gone by. So we got the cars we have today, destroying lap records but can’t follow or pass each other.

If one plotted F1 average lap speeds over the years on a chart, the result is going to look a bit like an "ascending wave" - the general trend is towards an increase, but every X years there's a bit of a "cop on", and some rule changes make the cars slower for a few season; Keke Rosberg's lap speed record at Silverstone lasted from 1985 up to 2004 as a result of such trend, and the latter lasted until Monza this season for the same reason.

It's only a matter of time until someone realizes and a rule change will be implemented to make the cars 5 to 10 seconds a lap slower again, rinse repeat.

Inviere wrote: »

Similar logic applies to F1 too, as in, it kinda has to show its speed if it’s claiming to be the pinnacle of Motorsport open wheel racing. Imagine the F2 cars were quicker, it’d hurt F1. So it’s caught between a rock and a hard place...be faster than everything else, but provide great racing.

Not really - F1 was still faster than anything else including Indycar and LMP
(pointless headline grabbing non-rule compliant record attempts aside). Formula E isn't nearly there, but the general concept is working well enough for now, so...

Charlie-Bravo · 15-10-2018 10:37am

I'm delighted for Vandoorne as he never got to shine at McLaren. He is a GP2 champ who written by a decent margin. If HWA get their act together really quickly, the likes of Buemi, JEV will have some decent competition.

I'm not sure Massa will show anything special but might be good at setting up the car.

flazio · 15-10-2018 2:43pm

Is that the team Susie Wolff is in charge of?

Charlie-Bravo · 15-10-2018 4:25pm

Susie is in charge (and shareholder) of Venturi, I think it's their second season. Massa and a lad called Mortara are the drivers.

HWA are brand new to the sport but old hands at racing with DTM. Stoffel with be partnered by Gary Paffett to drive the cars.

Charlie-Bravo · 15-10-2018 4:32pm

Here's the testing entry list for Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday this week.

http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2018/october/entry-list-announced-ahead-of-pre-season-testing/

flazio · 26-10-2018 2:33pm

Live coverage is to be hidden behind a Virgin Media paywall
http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2018/october/virgin-media-sport-to-broadcast-formula-e-season-5/

AMKC · 26-10-2018 3:46pm

flazio wrote: »

Live coverage is to be hidden behind a Virgin Media paywall
http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2018/october/virgin-media-sport-to-broadcast-formula-e-season-5/

I have to say I think it is a big mistake. It is far too soon and totally the wrong time to put Formula e behind a paywall. They could have got a lot of viewers that were annoyed by Formula 1 going this way and were interested in something new maybe to watch it. Instead now they will have less viewers and if it comes to a choice for someone interested in single seater racing they more than likely will pay to watch F1 not Fe.

Inviere · 26-10-2018 4:10pm

AMKC wrote: »

I have to say I think it is a big mistake. It is far too soon and totally the wrong time to put Formula e behind a paywall. They could have got a lot of viewers that were annoyed by Formula 1 going this way and were interested in something new maybe to watch it. Instead now they will have less viewers and if it comes to a choice for someone interested in single seater racing they more than likely will pay to watch F1 not Fe.

Couldn’t agree more, huge mistake, and reeks of pure greed. The whole of F-E should be on YouTube and the likes, lives races, past races, everything. It’s nowhere near mature enough to warrant being behind a paywall. Hell, F1 with its decades of history, global audience, and huge stars has suffered hugely by being behind a paywall...what chance does FE stand?

Charlie-Bravo · 26-10-2018 4:18pm

That's a bit of a shame as it was handy being able to switch on the TV, plug in the auld aerial and there you go, 3e coverage. VM Sports is going to be a channel that not very many will watch this sport on. Unless they decide to simulcast with one of the saorview channels.

Hopefully it'll still be on Channel 5 or Spike on FTA sat.

Formula E - Gen.2

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