Should Dublin ban Burqas and Hijabs?

gozunda · 11-09-2018 8:48am

Dannyriver wrote: »

You are truly making an ape of yourself if you think anyone in Dubai is in fear of what you just posted. You might want to talk to someone who s actually lived there Danzy, or else go work for the daily mail or the Sun..... picking sensationalist extremely rare incidents as a barometer of everyday life is the ultimate in fake news. Trust me there s as much vice to be had in Dubai as you d get in Bangkok if that s what your after. you basically haven t a clue what you are talking about.

This recent case in Saudi Arabia may be relevant to the discussion ...

An Egyptian man in Saudi Arabia has been arrested after a video of him having breakfast with a woman went viral on Twitter.

In the video, a man with an Egyptian dialect eats breakfast beside a woman wearing a full face veil, who many assumed to be Saudi.

This is in contravention of the law in Saudi Arabia, where in workplaces or eateries like McDonald's and Starbucks, families and single men have to sit in different areas.

Women must sit separately from single men in these places.

They are not allowed to carry out most activities without being accompanied by their male guardians, usually a father or husband, but possibly a brother or a son.

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45471549

DChancer · 11-09-2018 8:49am

gozunda wrote: »

This recent case in Saudi Arabia may be relevant to the discussion ...

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45471549

How is that relevant to Dublin?
I mean you do know that Dublin is NOT in Saudi Arabia?

pauldla · 11-09-2018 8:53am

gozunda wrote: »

This recent case in Saudi Arabia may be relevant to the discussion ...

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45471549

As you are quoting the poster directly above you, and apparently in response to that poster, I feel compelled to point out that Dubai isn't in Saudi Arabia.

gozunda · 11-09-2018 8:54am

DChancer wrote: »

How is that relevant to Dublin?I mean you do know that Dublin is NOT in Saudi Arabia?

Cos you obviously havn't read the thread evidently - this is the OPs opening:

Therefore in Britain and Ireland I believe we are within our rights to ban something that isolates woman and was made by men to oppress them.

Are we discussing geography? For the hard of understanding yeah it's relevant imo to some of the isues in the discussion which were commented on previously. T'is strange that a news story should attract such negativity for being news! Doesn't suit the narrative of some I'd guess - strange that ...

pauldla wrote: »

As you are quoting the poster directly above you, and apparently in response to that poster, I feel compelled to point out that Dubai isn't in Saudi Arabia.

You don't say? :rolleyes:

Ha Hillarious! Just love the gratuitous geography lessons...

If you can't contribute anything useful yourself....

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 10:12am

gozunda wrote: »

This recent case in Saudi Arabia may be relevant to the discussion ...

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45471549

How could posting an article about Saudi Arabia be relevant to the UAE , or are you under the impression that Arabia is a country where all the laws are the same. If so you are not the only western person that hasn t a clue. Do you know when Americans ask us is Ireland the same as Britian and we go what a thick ****, well this is unfortunately what Arabs and African s have to deal with regularly.

pauldla · 11-09-2018 11:59am

gozunda wrote: »

pauldla wrote: »

As you are quoting the poster directly above you, and apparently in response to that poster, I feel compelled to point out that Dubai isn't in Saudi Arabia.

You don't say? :rolleyes:

Ha Hillarious! Just love the gratuitous geography lessons...

If you can't contribute anything useful yourself....

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

But I did contribute something useful. I pointed out that Dubai isn’t in Saudi. Who knows, you might even be grateful for that information one day. Evidently not today though.

gozunda · 11-09-2018 12:54pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

How could posting an article about Saudi Arabia be relevant to the UAE , or are you under the impression that Arabia is a country where all the laws are the same. If so you are not the only western person that hasn t a clue. Do you know when Americans ask us is Ireland the same as Britian and we go what a thick ****, well this is unfortunately what Arabs and African s have to deal with regularly.

More geography eh :rolleyes:
It's not the freekin geographic location that's relevant just in case you didn't you understand. jeez there's thick comments and there's that ...

For the hard of understanding. The discussion is based on the OPs premise that:

in Britain and Ireland I believe we are within our rights to ban something that isolates woman and was made by men to oppress them.

So posters got talking about oppresion in different middle eastern countries.. And I posted about a news story which detailed an example of this:

An Egyptian man in (county redacted for the hard of understanding) has been arrested after a video of him having breakfast with a woman ( in a full face veil) went viral on Twitter...This is in contravention of the law in (), where in workplaces or eateries like McDonald's and Starbucks, families and single men have to sit in different areas. Women must sit separately from single men in these places.They are not allowed to carry out most activities without being accompanied by their male guardians, usually a father or husband, but possibly a brother or a son.

Now if that isn't clear enough I can also spell it out in words of one syllable and less if you like ...

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 1:01pm

gozunda wrote: »

More geography eh :rolleyes:
It's not the freekin geographic location that's relevant just in case you didn't you understand. jeez there's thick comments and there's that ...

Of course it is the post was initially put up to illustrate that there are parts of the middle east which are Muslim countries that allow westerners to live a western existence, And saudi arabia isn t one of them do u understand now. :eek:

gozunda · 11-09-2018 1:04pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Of course it is the post was initially put up to illustrate that there are parts of the middle east which are Muslim countries that allow westerners to live a western existence, And saudi arabia isn t one of them do u understand now.

Nah ya missed it again. Do read the rest of the post

:rolleyes:

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 1:12pm

gozunda wrote: »

Nah ya missed it again. Do read the rest of the post

:rolleyes:

Fair enough your one of those kind of guys well at least now you know that Arabia isn t one big country ...:rolleyes:

Graces7 · 11-09-2018 1:27pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Technicality, ....ok ban the widows veil altogether , sure that would be the perfect ruse who d suspect a widow in a veil , or ban walking in to a bank on a freezing November with your scarf wrapped up to your nose which I have done numerous times in my life. ... Ridiculous whataboutery, nanny state , mind the children , nonsense.

and ban eg myself from wearing a face mask to prevent infection as I have a damaged immune system?

gozunda · 11-09-2018 2:02pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Fair enough your one of those kind of guys well at least now you know that Arabia isn t one big country ...:

Grand so -Thanks anyway for the irrelevant /ocd geography lesson. And yes I know the countries that make up the UAE on one hand and the other adjoining countries such as Saudi Arabia on the other. I can send you a map if you like

Btw - your lack of comprehension is showing

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 4:16pm

gozunda wrote: »

Grand so -Thanks anyway for the irrelevant /ocd geography lesson. And yes I know the countries that make up the UAE on one hand and the other adjoining countries such as Saudi Arabia on the other. I can send you a map if you like

You do now

Roger Hassenforder · 11-09-2018 6:06pm

Hillarious.
Geography lessons aplenty, but plenty of gloss over:

"This is in contravention of the law in Saudi Arabia, where in workplaces or eateries like McDonald's and Starbucks, families and single men have to sit in different areas.

Women must sit separately from single men in these places.

They are not allowed to carry out most activities without being accompanied by their male guardians, usually a father or husband, but possibly a brother or a son."

But but but it's what they want.../i]

gozunda · 11-09-2018 6:09pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Hillarious.
Geography lessons aplenty, but plenty of gloss over:

"This is in contravention of the law in Saudi Arabia, where in workplaces or eateries like McDonald's and Starbucks, families and single men have to sit in different areas.

Women must sit separately from single men in these places.

They are not allowed to carry out most activities without being accompanied by their male guardians, usually a father or husband, but possibly a brother or a son."

ABut but but it's what they want.../i]

The Twitter storm which has broken out over that - is worth watching with many asking what exactly was wrong with the work colleagues having breakfast together ...

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 6:13pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Hillarious.
Geography lessons aplenty, but plenty of gloss over:

"This is in contravention of the law in Saudi Arabia, where in workplaces or eateries like McDonald's and Starbucks, families and single men have to sit in different areas.

Women must sit separately from single men in these places.

They are not allowed to carry out most activities without being accompanied by their male guardians, usually a father or husband, but possibly a brother or a son."

ABut but but it's what they want.../i]

Am Roger no one is condoning or glossing over the abhorrent rigid fundamentalist bull**** laws in Saudi Arabia ,the point that was being made was the fact that some people on here want to ban the burqa/niqab and I made the point that if we do we are being less liberal than the UAE where westerners are allowed to live western lives . Another poster then claimed this is not true and equated life in saudi arabia with that of the UAE which is patently wrong.

Danzy · 11-09-2018 6:25pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Hillarious.
Geography lessons aplenty, but plenty of gloss over:

"This is in contravention of the law in Saudi Arabia, where in workplaces or eateries like McDonald's and Starbucks, families and single men have to sit in different areas.

Women must sit separately from single men in these places.

./i]

Look to Labour party meetings from the last election in Britain for the same happening.

Going on about Arabia being different is a red herring.

The belief system is the problem.

gozunda · 11-09-2018 6:26pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Am Roger no one is condoning or glossing over the abhorrent rigid fundamentalist bull**** laws in Saudi Arabia ,the point that was being made was the fact that some people on here want to ban the burqa/niqab and I made the point that if we do we are being less liberal than the UAE where westerners are allowed to live western lives . Another poster then claimed this is not true and equated life in saudi arabia with that of the UAE which is patently wrong.

It's nothing about 'westerners living western lives (sic) rather those forcing oppression on others because of their gender.

And it's not a fracking competition between UAE and Saudi or whatever country you're hellbent on using to support that ludricous argument

Your lack of comprehension is still showing ...

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 6:31pm

gozunda wrote: »

It's nothing about 'westerners living western lives (sic) rather those forcing oppression on others because of their gender.

And it's not a fracking competition between UAE and Saudi or whatever country you're hellbent on using to support that ludricous argument

Your lack of comprehension is still showing ...

How so?

And why use (sic)

Roger Hassenforder · 11-09-2018 6:46pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Am Roger no one is condoning or glossing over the abhorrent rigid fundamentalist bull**** laws in Saudi Arabia ,the point that was being made was the fact that some people on here want to ban the burqa niqab and I made the point that if we do we are being less liberal than the UAE where westerners are allowed to live western lives . Another poster then claimed this is not true and equated life in saudi arabia with that of the UAE which is patently wrong.

Which is why I have an issue with "it"

It's a symbolic of a most backward and repressive ideology, that in essence, rejects "western" values. I'm not arrogant enough to assume the moral high ground and purport to be more enlightened. If you reject me- I reject you.

If they dont want to wear it, banning it will be to their advantage, and encourage integration. Allow them throw off their repressive yoke, let them feel the sun and wind on their face.

If they actually want to wear it, all the more reason to ban it; let them fcuk off and wear it where it's not banned.

If it's so important, why don't the men where it?

Niqab: meh. Doesnt really bother me
Assuming they want to wear it.

jmayo · 11-09-2018 7:08pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Of course it is the post was initially put up to illustrate that there are parts of the middle east which are Muslim countries that allow westerners to live a western existence, And saudi arabia isn t one of them do u understand now. :eek:

Dannyriver wrote: »

Am Roger no one is condoning or glossing over the abhorrent rigid fundamentalist bull**** laws in Saudi Arabia ,the point that was being made was the fact that some people on here want to ban the burqa/niqab and I made the point that if we do we are being less liberal than the UAE where westerners are allowed to live western lives . Another poster then claimed this is not true and equated life in saudi arabia with that of the UAE which is patently wrong.

You keep pedaling this line about UAE allowing people a complete western existence or to live western lives.

Would you mind elaborating on this ?

For instance can I sit outside a restaurant or a bar and have an alcoholic drink ?

Can I freely eat or drink publicly during the day between May 6th and Jun 3rd next year ?
Care to name a Western country that will forbid you doing that and charge me with an offense for it?

Is there any chance in a Western country that a couple could be arrested for kissing in a restaurant ?

Any chance I will be arrested in a Western country for swearing on social media ?

Is there any chance in Western countries that a rape victim will be arrested for having extra marital sex ?

Is non payment of debt in Western countries considered a criminal offense ?

Oh and can I get a poppy seed bagel ?

So really you should actually have said
"yes you can lead a western way of life in UAE if you do it behind closed doors and even then not on social media".

Captain Obvious · 11-09-2018 7:23pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Which is why I have an issue with "it"

It's a symbolic of a most backward and repressive ideology, that in essence, rejects "western" values. I'm not arrogant enough to assume the moral high ground and purport to be more enlightened. If you reject me- I reject you.

If they dont want to wear it, banning it will be to their advantage, and encourage integration. Allow them throw off their repressive yoke, let them feel the sun and wind on their face.

If they actually want to wear it, all the more reason to ban it; let them fcuk off and wear it where it's not banned.

If it's so important, why don't the men where it?

Niqab: meh. Doesnt really bother me
Assuming they want to wear it.

How would you enforce the ban?

gozunda · 11-09-2018 7:34pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

How so?

And why use (sic)

See previous post and as discussed.

&

From the Latin for “so” or “thus,” [sic] indicates that the text was so written originally. [Sic] (sometimes rendered in italics, with or without the brackets), allows a publication to tell readers that this is what the original writer wrote; we’re merely repeating it, so don’t blame us.

See: https://archives.cjr.org/language_corner/language_corner_080914.php

Roger Hassenforder · 11-09-2018 7:57pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

How would you enforce the ban?

Hi George, I'm glad you asked.

I'd form a high level steering group to look at all the countries that have partial/full bans. Maybe send a few fact finding missions. See whats working, see whats not. Ensure any such ban is still compatible with the acquis communautaire

Organise a few workshops/focus groups with those potentially affected (assuming their husbands allow them freely contribute), let them know what's happening. Solicit their views. Send a few (ideally female) special rapporteurs to engage with the more "idelogical" Mosques' Imans to flag in advance the imminent legislation. Take on board their concerns, filing them alongside their views on FGM, no male teachers, percussion only instruments and segregated PE classes etc.

After a well publicised campaign, stop "new entrants" at source. Initial enforcement by cautions/ warnings, followed by requests to remove, followed by fines. Maybe establish a special police force, kind of like that which enforces hijab in Iran, an "antiMorality" police force if you like.

Can review after a few months.
Integrate any learnings.

Thoughts?

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 8:09pm

jmayo wrote: »

You keep pedaling this line about UAE allowing people a complete western existence or to live western lives.

Would you mind elaborating on this ?

For instance can I sit outside a restaurant or a bar and have an alcoholic drink ?

Can I freely eat or drink publicly during the day between May 6th and Jun 3rd next year ?
Care to name a Western country that will forbid you doing that and charge me with an offense for it?

Is there any chance in a Western country that a couple could be arrested for kissing in a restaurant ?

Any chance I will be arrested in a Western country for swearing on social media ?

Is there any chance in Western countries that a rape victim will be arrested for having extra marital sex ?

Is non payment of debt in Western countries considered a criminal offense ?

Oh and can I get a poppy seed bagel ?

So really you should actually have said
"yes you can lead a western way of life in UAE if you do it behind closed doors and even then not on social media".

Behind closed doors, you make it sound like people living in compounds...such bollox...yes you can get arrested for being a drunken slob on the street and they have zero tolerance of the drunken public debauchery and pissing in the streets that is endemic in Irish / British culture, all the rest is just horse **** ... arrested for kissing in a restaurant..is enough for me to know that you know **** all about the place. I lived there for years so I actually know what I'm talking about.

https://www.dubainight.com/dubai/billionaire-mansion/photos-billionaire-mansion-sunday-septembre-09,3,1056422.html?page=36

Captain Obvious · 11-09-2018 8:11pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Hi George, I'm glad you asked.

I don't get it.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I'd form a high level steering group to look at all the countries that have partial/full bans. Maybe send a few fact finding missions. See whats working, see whats not. Ensure any such ban is still compatible with the acquis communautaire

Organise a few workshops/focus groups with those potentially affected (assuming their husbands allow them freely contribute), let them know what's happening. Solicit their views. Send a few (ideally female) special rapporteurs to engage with the more "idelogical" Mosques' Imans to flag in advance the imminent legislation. Take on board their concerns, filing them alongside their views on FGM, no male teachers, percussion only instruments and segregated PE classes etc.

After a well publicised campaign, stop "new entrants" at source. Initial enforcement by cautions/ warnings, followed by requests to remove, followed by fines. Maybe establish a special police force, kind of like that which enforces hijab in Iran, an "antiMorality" police force if you like.

Can review after a few months.
Integrate any learnings.

Thoughts?

Thoughts on a police force to enforce a dress code on women? I don't see much difference between your views and those of the Islamists you despise.

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 8:13pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

Behind closed doors, you make it sound like people living in compounds...such bollox...yes you can get arrested for being a drunken slob on the street and they have zero tolerance of the drunken public debauchery and pissing in the streets that is endemic in Irish / British culture, all the rest is just horse **** ... arrested for kissing in a restaurant..is enough for me to know that you know **** all about the place. I lived there for years so I actually know what I'm talking about.

https://www.dubainight.com/dubai/billionaire-mansion/photos-billionaire-mansion-sunday-septembre-09,3,1056422.html?page=36

And don t forget to scroll through the photos which that particular club put on the internet from the other night...do those people look like they are afraid of the cops busting them for kissing in a restaurant

gozunda · 11-09-2018 8:18pm

Dannyriver wrote:

Dannyriver wrote:

And don t forget to scroll through the photos which that particular club put on the internet from the other night...do those people look like they are afraid of the cops busting them for kissing in a restaurant

Dannyriver quoting Dannyriver ..... hmmmm

Dannyriver · 11-09-2018 8:20pm

gozunda wrote: »

Dannyriver quoting Dannyriver ..... hmmmm

I don t know what the **** that s meant to mean...in the meantime did you scroll through the pics posted on the internet that I linked you

Roger Hassenforder · 11-09-2018 8:22pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I don't get it.

Thoughts on a police force to enforce a dress code on women? I don't see much difference between your views and those of the Islamists you despise.

I thought you might have thought this a good idea; an authority forcing women to do what you don't want them forced not to do...
My bad.
We can get rid of the antiMorality police, I've them pencilled in as a bullet point.

Should Dublin ban Burqas and Hijabs?

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