Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Peregrine · 10-09-2018 10:14AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

What makes that so apparent?

Also, it's the NTA that are buying the new ones. I've heard complaints about the SGs but to suggest that they are rubbish compared to the aged, guzzling, polluting AVs is a stretch.

NuMarvel · 10-09-2018 10:19AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Reading back as I'm only occasionally keeping up with this thread and I see they've made the livery even worse by the addition of a yellow front end now - presumably to try and reassure passengers that it's a city bus service not a private operator but also address the visibility concerns.

I saw one of the 175s yesterday in front of a DB (77A I think), and I think the yellow, and the livery overall, looks well. The two buses looked distinct, but with enough commonality to let passengers know it's a public bus service. The one thing I'd change if I could is the teal/aqua stripe on the new livery, but it's not a deal breaker.

devnull · 10-09-2018 10:22AM

The AVs are an extremely dated vehicle with the interior based on the 90s apart from a low floor element. There's no hope of getting someone out their car onto one of them.

The SGs are not perfect. The GTs were better. But they least look like a modern bus and I know many people who feel they are a step forward who use the bus now that never would before. The new vehicles helped shake off negative perceptions from non bus users who then became bus users.

Qrt · 10-09-2018 10:28AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

I saw one of the 175s yesterday in front of a DB (77A I think), and I think the yellow, and the livery overall, looks well. The two buses looked distinct, but with enough commonality to let passengers know it's a public bus service. The one thing I'd change if I could is the teal/aqua stripe on the new livery, but it's not a deal breaker.

I firmly believe they should swap the direction of the teal stripe.

markpb · 10-09-2018 11:06AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

They're selling the buses to operators that are a lot smaller and have different requirements to Dublin Bus. There are several good reasons why they're following this approach. It's hard to argue with it when Ryanair are doing exactly the same. It gives them better passenger comfort, better fuel efficiency, less environmental impact, better reliability which means less need for spare rolling stock and repair stock, less impact to passengers and fewer mechanics needed. Likewise with Ryanair, standardising on a smaller number of vehicle types makes maintenance a lot easier and cheaper. Keeping a handful of old vehicles around because they're still working means keeping people proficient in how to maintain them and means keeping parts in stock for them or having the vehicle out of service for long periods while waiting for those parts to arrive.

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 04:54PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

Most operators are withdrawing their ALX400s. Most London bus operators have sold them off now at this stage and replaced with newer Enviro 400 MMCs or Gemini 3s. Most of the operators that still have them are smaller firms who have bought them second hand for school runs, local services, park and rides and private hires.

punisher5112 · 10-09-2018 05:09PM

I find the av better to be around then an ax as the fumes off these are shocking.

I find most if not all 2016 sg models for some reason spew out quite an amount of black smoke.

Other years of sg don't.

Stevek101 · 10-09-2018 07:39PM

In October 2018 they will begin a phased takeover of 24 Transport for Ireland routes in the Outer Dublin Metropolitan Area, starting with routes 45A, 75, 184, 63, 185, 111 & 59.

I see they have correct the info on the TFI website. Does anyone know what Dublin Bus changes we will see that Sunday?

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 07:47PM

Stevek101 wrote: »

I see they have correct the info on the TFI website. Does anyone know what Dublin Bus changes we will see that Sunday?

All 14s to Donnybrook perhaps?

devnull · 10-09-2018 07:54PM

Stevek101 wrote: »

I see they have correct the info on the TFI website. Does anyone know what Dublin Bus changes we will see that Sunday?

40E will bs starting.

Stevek101 · 10-09-2018 07:55PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

All 14s to Donnybrook perhaps?

I had heard a large portion of shared routes going back to single garage such as 14, 15, 27.

I am interested to see how much of a frequency bump we are going to get.

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 10:03PM

devnull wrote: »

40E will bs starting.

I wonder what the frequency will be like on that route. I'd say for it to be viable connection it will need to be every 20 mins or better.

dublinman1990 · 11-09-2018 01:35AM

I just had a read of article on the 175 from DublinBusstuff.com. It makes some points about the livery itself in that the yellow painted over it is in Dublin Bus yellow. Also it shows a photograph of the USB ports placed on the walls on the top deck of the Go-Ahead Gemini's. I supposed the newer SG's in Dublin Bus have these ports placed behind the passenger seats upstairs & downstairs?

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/GoAhead.html

punisher5112 · 11-09-2018 08:04AM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I just had a read of article on the 175 from DublinBusstuff.com. It makes some points about the livery itself in that the yellow painted over it is in Dublin Bus yellow. Also it shows a photograph of the USB ports placed on the walls on the top deck of the Go-Ahead Gemini's. I supposed the newer SG's in Dublin Bus have these ports placed behind the passenger seats upstairs & downstairs?

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/GoAhead.html

USB port is on the wall at top of stairs at seat behind it.

This is same layout on db, rest on seats and ones at very front just below windscreen

XPS_Zero · 11-09-2018 09:09AM

You gotta love how the media is going negative on this the way they are the other changes, the big emphasis is "BRITISH firm GoAhead is to take over IRISH busses....DE BLEEDIN BRITS WILL OWN AR BUSSES!!! DE FEKIN BRITS!!!!"
This constant negativity from them is starting to get boring and predictable.

Then you have the Soildarity/AAA/PBP/SWP/SP/ULA whatever their name is after the latest split this week, not understanding the difference between privatization and Luas model style competition.

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 11:34AM

XPS_Zero wrote: »

You gotta love how the media is going negative on this the way they are the other changes, the big emphasis is "BRITISH firm GoAhead is to take over IRISH busses....DE BLEEDIN BRITS WILL OWN AR BUSSES!!! DE FEKIN BRITS!!!!"
This constant negativity from them is starting to get boring and predictable.

Then you have the Soildarity/AAA/PBP/SWP/SP/ULA whatever their name is after the latest split this week, not understanding the difference between privatization and Luas model style competition.

No problem with go ahead being British, but has a massive problem with the government replacing Irish state services with a foreign one.

This is very concerning to most people XPS. Many other Irish corrupt governments have been here before and sold us out. This one is doing it in stages with an upper class TD at the helm.

What people NEED to see here is a more expensive tender being given to a foreign company over an Irish one. That is a fact and stinks from hi heaven.

As a CIE employee, this will effect my job as some stage. And everyone in the semi state company. At some stage. And may even drive down wages across the industry.

As go Ahead pay less in wages and get the busses they claim to invest in for free, the money is going to the top, not the workers.

People should have a massive problem with that.

devnull · 11-09-2018 11:39AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

What people NEED to see here is a more expensive tender being given to a foreign company over an Irish one. That is a fact and stinks from hi heaven.

That is pure speculation - there is nothing factual to back up what you are claiming, other than what some sources have speculated. Just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it is true.

Also the nationality really hasn't got anything to do with it if you ask me. I prefer not to base what I think of people and companies on their nationality, more on what they actually do and the quality of their work.

Go Ahead pay less in wages and get the busses they claim to invest in for free, the money is going to the top, not the workers.

Dublin Bus have also been getting the vehicles for free as well...

MJohnston · 11-09-2018 11:48AM

I really doubt people care about where the company that gets these tenders is from. They didn't care about Veolia, don't care about Transdev, Kennedy Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

People care about their quality of service first and foremost, then one of the secondary concerns is "how many jobs for Irish residents does this company bring?".

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 11:54AM

devnull wrote: »

That is pure speculation - there is nothing factual to back up what you are claiming, other than what some sources have speculated. Just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it is true.

Also the nationality really hasn't got anything to do with it if you ask me. I prefer not to base what I think of people and companies on their nationality, more on what they actually do and the quality of their work.

Dublin Bus have also been getting the vehicles for free as well...

The tender being more expensive is something that was posted on this forum numerous times. I can only assume there is some truth in the fact somewhere . Why are the NTA hiding it?? Stinks..

Well for lot is irish citizens , nationality is very important. Looking after our own is something that should be a keystone of our society. Not selling us off to big foreign companies .

I never said Dublin bus did not get busses of the NTA, but Goahead clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland, when it was the Irish tax payer that did.

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 11:57AM

MJohnston wrote: »

I really doubt people care about where the company that gets these tenders is from. They didn't care about Veolia, don't care about Transdev, Kennedy Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

People care about their quality of service first and foremost, then one of the secondary concerns is "how many jobs for Irish residents does this company bring?".

The wages are considerably less for the ground workers .. Irish residents. Now doing a job they could have been doing for Dublin Bus with better T & Cs and wages.

Dublin Bus has got alot better in recent years in quailty of service and still has work to do. But paying people less is not the way to fix it.

devnull · 11-09-2018 12:03PM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The tender being more expensive is something that was posted on this forum numerous times. I can only assume there is some truth in the fact somewhere.

Just because people, often those who have a vested interest, keep saying it over and over again, it doesn't somehow make it true. For something to be true you have to be able to prove it, the whole, many people said it, so it must be true is a typical kind of tactic that is used when someone has no actual proof.

I never said Dublin bus did not get busses of the NTA, but Goahead clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland, when it was the Irish tax payer that did.

Do you have a link to a direct quote where this was the case?

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 12:24PM

devnull wrote: »

Just because people, often those who have a vested interest, keep saying it over and over again, it doesn't somehow make it true. For something to be true you have to be able to prove it, the whole, many people said it, so it must be true is a typical kind of tactic that is used when someone has no actual proof.

Do you have a link to a direct quote where this was the case?

David Brown the CEO in this video . He invests in lots of things apparently . People , plant and busses.

https://vimeo.com/279761747

devnull · 11-09-2018 12:53PM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

David Brown the CEO in this video . He invests in lots of things apparently . People , plant and busses.

https://vimeo.com/279761747

David Brown is the CEO of the Go-Ahead Group overall.

He spoke about what Go-Ahead as a company does and all of what he said is true. He didn't 'clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland' as you are claiming, he was just speaking in relation to the company as a whole.

end of the road · 11-09-2018 01:41PM

XPS_Zero wrote: »

You gotta love how the media is going negative on this the way they are the other changes, the big emphasis is "BRITISH firm GoAhead is to take over IRISH busses....DE BLEEDIN BRITS WILL OWN AR BUSSES!!! DE FEKIN BRITS!!!!"
This constant negativity from them is starting to get boring and predictable.

don't read it then.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Then you have the Soildarity/AAA/PBP/SWP/SP/ULA whatever their name is after the latest split this week, not understanding the difference between privatization and Luas model style competition.

well that's not surprising, and i think some wouldn't exactly blame them, given luas model style "competition" is only "competition" in the loose sense of the word. and even then it's simple tendering, as that is what "luas model style" "competition" is . it's not some unique being that's oh so different and unique to ireland, something we invented specifically for luas.
ultimately the user doesn't benefit from this supposed "competition" but from what the contracting authority puts in the contract. the contracting authority makes the decisians, puts it into the contract, and the user can like it or lump it. so no, i don't blame them for not knowing the nitty gritty between tendering and privatization, given that to the user, they may as well be interchangible, and the average person on the street does not have an interest in the fine details of public transport operations.

PeadarCo · 11-09-2018 02:05PM

end of the road wrote:

well that's not surprising, and i think some wouldn't exactly blame them, given luas model style "competition" is only "competition" in the loose sense of the word. and even then it's simple tendering, as that is what "luas model style" "competition" is . it's not some unique being that's oh so different and unique to ireland, something we invented specifically for luas. ultimately the user doesn't benefit from this supposed "competition" but from what the contracting authority puts in the contract. the contracting authority makes the decisians, puts it into the contract, and the user can like it or lump it. so no, i don't blame them for not knowing the nitty gritty between tendering and privatization, given that to the user, they may as well be interchangible, and the average person on the street does not have an interest in the fine details of public transport operations.

They aren't interchangeable and there is a massive difference. Under privatisation there is a complete free for all in terms of prices routes timetables etc.

Under tendering the government retains control of the overall service routes timetable etc but there is now competition when it comes to providing the service. If Dublin bus is so great tendering isn't going to be a threat. It a particular supplier can't or doesn't want to meet changing requirements there is always an alternative. It also means employee employer disputes at individual company can't shut down the entire network. Obviously that reduces the power of unions. However that doesn't matter, the whole point of a public transport system is that its run for the benefit of the users not anyone else. If its not doing that its not working.

Yggr of Asgard · 11-09-2018 02:50PM

devnull wrote: »

David Brown is the CEO of the Go-Ahead Group overall.

He spoke about what Go-Ahead as a company does and all of what he said is true. He didn't 'clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland' as you are claiming, he was just speaking in relation to the company as a whole.

In fact, he clearly says "you have to invest in those buses and that is clearly what the NTA are doing" when discussing the kind of buses used.

Does he, in the beginning, talk about the company in a broader sense, quite possible, but he clearly points out the busses are NTA.

Yggr of Asgard · 11-09-2018 03:00PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I really doubt people care about where the company that gets these tenders is from. They didn't care about Veolia, don't care about Transdev, Kennedy Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

People care about their quality of service first and foremost, then one of the secondary concerns is "how many jobs for Irish residents does this company bring?".

I don't care who operates the bus I'm using, I do care that they show up on time, are safe and clean and the driver is operating the vehicle in a safe matter giving me a good journey and if possible for a good price.

I don't care if that is DB, BE, GOBUS, Aircoach, GoAhead or transdev. I leave it up to the NTA/TFI to sort that out on those routes where there is no actual competition for the journey I want to take.

If this would be a competition I would show up at a bus stop and I have the choice of the bus to use. Example swords to the city. I can choose Dublin Bus (41) or Swords Express (500). I can make the decision what I would like to use and pay. And believe it or not, at some times DB beats Swords Express for me in terms of value and comfort.

GoAhead is not competition for me, they are just operating a route on behalf of NTA/TFI. Will it be better, that depends, hopefully, it will lead to cheaper prices in the long run as the operating cost hopefully are taking into consideration the next fare discussion.

Why should the NTA/TFI not have the right to choose the best provider for the public good? Everybody here does it every day by deciding where to shop, where to buy petrol or which bus to use (where there is competition). Should the NTA/TFI not ensure that we get the best value for money?

vienne86 · 11-09-2018 04:39PM

This new 175 route goes near my home and I think I might use it - for the life of me, I can't find the real time information for it. Anyone know where I can get it?

Stephen15 · 11-09-2018 04:41PM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Dublin Bus has got alot better in recent years in quailty of service and still has work to do. But paying people less is not the way to fix it.

Agreed but a lot of the reasons it has got better is because of the NTA. Leap Cards, RTPI and new buses has all been done by the NTA and not DB. I will criticize the NTA in some senses the whole livery fiasco has is a joke for example and some of the bus connects elements haven't been up to scratch in the way they're executing it.

Stephen15 · 11-09-2018 04:42PM

vienne86 wrote: »

This new 175 route goes near my home and I think I might use it - for the life of me, I can't find the real time information for it. Anyone know where I can get it?

TFI journey planner

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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