Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

We must get people out of their cars to stop the city grinding to a halt if we don't encourage modal shift and honestly, stepping on a 2006 AX literally says nothing has changed on vehicles since the early 90s. In the UK, National Express platinum brand, Arriva Saphire and Stagecoach Gold and the Witch Way in Lancashire to name a few have been very successful in attracting modal switch from people who haven't been on a bus in a long time with modern vehicles.

I wouldn't be suggesting that now myself while I like to see new buses on the road I wouldn't be suggesting leather seats etc. Generally a consistent transport network rather than a fragmented one like the UK where there are more expensive premium services. I would much rather a consistent network where all buses look the same and have the same features with the same fare.

However I would like to see these kind of buses on non PSO work I think DB need to update their Airlink service and it would be very good if they invested in some new buses with leather seats and USB ports considering it is considered a premium service despite the buses on it not being the same as DB buses.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wouldn't be suggesting that now myself while I like to see new buses on the road I wouldn't be suggesting leather seats etc. Generally a consistent transport network rather than a fragmented one like the UK where there are more expensive premium services. I would much rather a consistent network where all buses look the same and have the same features with the same fare.

Oh for sure, I don't think we need to go down the leather seats road either or have a two tier PSO network, my point more was that to get people out of their car you need to challenge and change perceptions and that the fact these services have been so successful is because they have been able to do that.

Generally the bus spec we have in Dublin City bus (GA & DB) services is pretty high these days, most UK cities wouldn't have the same spec we have on the latest deliveries for their standard services, Wifi over there is still not a standard feature and USB sockets and on-board information is even less common on your run of the mill services.

However I would like to see these kind of buses on non PSO work I think DB need to update their Airlink service and it would be very good if they invested in some new buses with leather seats and USB ports considering it is considered a premium service despite the buses on it not being the same as DB buses.

They're free to do what they want on that - Aircoach themselves cut out a very specific market for themselves for instance when the started- a lot of their custom when they started up came from taxi users and those who use private cars and never used regular buses, that's why they built the whole brand on luxury. True that the Airlink service needs replacing though sooner or later.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Oh for sure, I don't think we need to go down the leather seats road either or have a two tier PSO network, my point more was that to get people out of their car you need to challenge and change perceptions and that the fact these services have been so successful is because they have been able to do that.

Generally the bus spec we have in Dublin City bus (GA & DB) services is pretty high these days, most UK cities wouldn't have the same spec we have on the latest deliveries for their standard services, Wifi over there is still not a standard feature and USB sockets and on-board information is even less common on your run of the mill services.

Agreed although London has a relatively young fleet compared to the rest of the UK although the buses don't have WiFi or USB. I not a huge fan of the SGs myself although the newer ones from 2016 onwards seem a bit nicer and less rattley than the older 2014 and 2015 ones.

They're free to do what they want on that - Aircoach themselves cut out a very specific market for themselves for instance when the started- a lot of their custom when they started up came from taxi users and those who use private cars and never used regular buses, that's why they built the whole brand on luxury. True that the Airlink service needs replacing though sooner or later.

Perhaps DB could be doing a bit more to compete with Aircoach and taxis on that route for journies into the city centre where DB has the advantage of the Port Tunnel. Translink recently updated their Belfast International Services and the new buses do look quite nice perhaps DB could do something similar with the Airlink.

devnull

I'd be curious how the full length single deck Streetlites get on with Go-AHead, since it's safe to say they've had mixed reviews in the UK, but since this is a slightly newer version of the Streetlite perhaps they'll be better. They are certainly going to have more than 28 capacity on them when they are rolled out though, they're far bigger than the DB ones, unless there are smaller ones too.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Agreed although London has a relatively young fleet compared to the rest of the UK although the buses don't have WiFi or USB. I not a huge fan of the SGs myself although the newer ones from 2016 onwards seem a bit nicer and less rattley than the older 2014 and 2015 ones.

Sure but in London you have the Tube, DLR and train network which is the mainstay of most peoples commuters with often the bus being a short trip from their home to the nearest rail/tram station or from work to the same, the average journey time for a London bus passenger would be far less than that of Dublin, where people are using the bus for long journeys as they have no other choice as they're not possible any other way.

I like the SGs, but ideally for build quality, I'd pick a VG with the additional features and seating the SG has (or even better, the seating that BE Geminis have) because the VG is a proper heavyweight bus that's built to quality rather than the GT (Gemini 2) and SG (Gemini 3) which are both newer version of the VG which have got progressively lighter and built from cheaper materials to save fuel and production costs. B

Perhaps DB could be doing a bit more to compete with Aircoach and taxis on that route for journies into the city centre where DB has the advantage of the Port Tunnel. Translink recently updated their Belfast International Services and the new buses do look quite nice perhaps DB could do something similar with the Airlink.

Well I don't think Aircoach are going forward last few years spec wise - their vehicles since 2014 for me are a step down on what came before them, but I'd not be surprised if someone like Go-Ahead bought them up, since First really are in dire financial straights and the break-up of First at least to some degree, is going to happen sooner rather than later. DB could give them a run for the money with newer vehicles, thats for sure.

punisher5112

I find the wright body vehicles to be absolutely cat.

They are far from comfortable and panels especially in ceiling are extremely easy to break up.

I find the whole ride extremely uncomfortable and every little bump felt.

Windows openings too small and I find the seats very cramped.

I do get onto the odd ax or ev and they are more comfortable.

n!ghtmancometh

punisher5112 wrote: »

I find the wright body vehicles to be absolutely cat.

They are far from comfortable and panels especially in ceiling are extremely easy to break up.

I find the whole ride extremely uncomfortable and every little bump felt.

Windows openings too small and I find the seats very cramped.

I do get onto the off ax or even and they are more comfortable.

SG's are awful. Far less space for passengers as seats are smaller, and the window ledge is at an awkward position which makes it hard to lean into, and give the person sitting in the outside seat room to sit into their seat. I'd rather a comfortable journey over usb ports. Always delighted when a AV or VG turns up.

Very prone to an annoying vibration rattle noise upstsirs when they are stuck in traffic, I assume it's the poorly constructed roof panels.

Cookie_Monster

dashcamdanny wrote: »

What people NEED to see here is a more expensive tender being given to a foreign company over an Irish one. That is a fact and stinks from hi heaven.

Does it bother you driving a foreign built bus as well, or is that somehow different?

devnull

I don't dispute at all that the Gemini 2 and 3 is made from more lightweight materials than the original version but I still think it has a better and more modern interior that is more likely to get people out their cars than an old style av or ax bus. The trend now is to lightweight vehicle structures and reduced fuel consumption to lower running costs.

Commercial companies in the UK wouldn't be investing large sums of money in such specification if they could get the same number of passengers with a more basic spec as it would make no commercial sense. They do it as they know it encourages more customers than buying average run of the mill vehicles as they know they will see returns on investment.

Enthusiasts and people who post on this forum on boards are generally not going to be people who need to be convinced to switch to the bus as they already will. Take 100 random people off the streets and ask them which they prefer. It won't be a 20 year old bus and the operators will prefer the newer bus too as it will save them hugely if fuel costs.

The VG is the best frame and structure Hard wearing and best build quality bus DB have. If you can give it the interior features the SG has you have an excellent bus. The problem is that people stopped buying VGs in UK and Ireland because the build quality came with a serious weight penalty which saw them undercut by a range of lighter more cheap to run vehicles and lost a lot of customers so they had to adapt to remain relevant in the market.

howiya

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Does it bother you driving a foreign built bus as well, or is that somehow different?

Be interesting to see where he buys his groceries too.

It doesn't seem to dawn on those opposed to foreign ownership that they could buy shares in Go-Ahead. While unlikely to make a dent in its ownership given its market cap, it would be somewhat ironic if DB employees were to invest and make money from GA.

Stephen15

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

SG's are awful. Far less space for passengers as seats are smaller, and the window ledge is at an awkward position which makes it hard to lean into, and give the person sitting in the outside seat room to sit into their seat. I'd rather a comfortable journey over usb ports. Always delighted when a AV or VG turns up.

Very prone to an annoying vibration rattle noise upstsirs when they are stuck in traffic, I assume it's the poorly constructed roof panels.

While I don't think the SGs are good buses and I would agree that they rattle a bit much they are not as bad as the EV class which really rattle a lot more and feel like they are going to fall apart anytime they hit anything on the road. They are quite fast compared to other buses which is good at times.

Stephen15

I hear Go-Ahead will be looking for drivers again in October not sure it could be for the ex BE contract or it could be for the routes which transfer over in January.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I hear Go-Ahead will be looking for drivers again in October not sure it could be for the ex BE contract or it could be for the routes which transfer over in January.

Ex BE contracts I'd say, any advertisement I've seen recently mentions another depot rather than Ballymount.

Yer Da sells Avon

They're now advertising for drivers who already hold a full D licence.

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/bus-drivers/

Please note we will not be processing any applications that hold a B Licence or a Learner Permit at this present time.

If you have already applied and hold a B Licence or Learner Permit we will be in contact in due course regarding your application.

dfx-

devnull wrote: »

I don't dispute at all that the Gemini 2 and 3 is made from more lightweight materials than the original version but I still think it has a better and more modern interior that is more likely to get people out their cars than an old style av or ax bus. The trend now is to lightweight vehicle structures and reduced fuel consumption to lower running costs.

Commercial companies in the UK wouldn't be investing large sums of money in such specification if they could get the same number of passengers with a more basic spec as it would make no commercial sense. They do it as they know it encourages more customers than buying average run of the mill vehicles as they know they will see returns on investment.

Enthusiasts and people who post on this forum on boards are generally not going to be people who need to be convinced to switch to the bus as they already will. Take 100 random people off the streets and ask them which they prefer. It won't be a 20 year old bus and the operators will prefer the newer bus too as it will save them hugely if fuel costs.

The VG is the best frame and structure Hard wearing and best build quality bus DB have. If you can give it the interior features the SG has you have an excellent bus. The problem is that people stopped buying VGs in UK and Ireland because the build quality came with a serious weight penalty which saw them undercut by a range of lighter more cheap to run vehicles and lost a lot of customers so they had to adapt to remain relevant in the market.

Give the 100 random people a third option of "no preference" or "no opinion", it'll be a very close call with no preference doing very well.

We can agree on something devnull :pac: - the VG is excellent all round as a customer experience without the USBs and gimmicks, just well built and comfortable.

When you step off one of them and step onto a GT, you wonder how such a similar looking bus is so much worse. If you were to be asked how to improve a SG or GT, you could point to a VG and say "build that instead".

devnull

dfx- wrote: »

Give the 100 random people a third option of "no preference" or "no opinion", it'll be a very close call with no preference doing very well.

Well if we are to ever end our clogged streets we need all the modal shift we can get at the end of the day if you ask me, Even if no preference wins, I'd say the SG would come second and if we can get all those people out of their cars then it will be better for everyone. Hopefully Go-Ahead can help with that and BusConnects will as well. Certainly the 175 seems to be doing it's job so far and is going down well with students.

When you step off one of them and step onto a GT, you wonder how such a similar looking bus is so much worse. If you were to be asked how to improve a SG or GT, you could point to a VG and say "build that instead".

I like the interior of the SG/GT over the VG, but the build quality of the later is much better, and better put together If you put the seats, Wifi and USB sockets and the passenger information screens and double doors into the VG then you'd have the perfect bus in my view from an interior point of view and a build quality point of view. There's no question that the trend to lightweight buses has been a bad thing. For example, a Streetlite is not a patch on a Wright Eclipse but the Eclipse got pushed out in the end by the Enviro 200, which honestly is a cheap as chips to run bus and a light one with poor build quality in my view and then the Streetlite was born and we'll soon see many of them with Go-Ahead Ireland and I bet you it won't be a patch of the VWL's in Bus Eireann.

Problem is that if they build the VG again then the net cost would be that Dublin Bus would end up spending a lot more on fuel because the VG is a much heavier bus than that of the GT/SG. Heavier buses are more hard-wearing and stronger and rattle less than the newer modern, lightweight stuff, but unfortunately the trend towards lighter buses has been heavily pushed along by the fact the biggest bus company in the UK has strong ownership links with the biggest bus builder in the UK and that partnership is mutually beneficial as it allows each other to dictate and control their respective markets and pretty much name the tune that the rest of the industry must dance along to.

Yer Da sells Avon

dfx- wrote: »

Give the 100 random people a third option of "no preference" or "no opinion", it'll be a very close call with no preference doing very well.

Since they got rid of the last of the non-low-floor double deckers (the late '90s ones with the Volvo logo going across the grille), I have no preference. I hated those buses with a passion. The water leaking through the poorly-fitted rubber around the upstairs windows... the constant puddle/pool sloshing around on the floor... the resultant damp smell... that 'ping... ping... ping' alarm... the sound of the driver punching the dashboard to (only momentarily) shut the alarm up. When the original low-floor double deckers started appearing in the early 2000s, they were an improvement in every possible way.

bk

Something to keep in mind about newer, lighter buses. The main reason they are lighter is in order to meet very strict Euro 6 emissions standards.

The standards are forcing lighter, less powerful engines, so obviously the buses have to be built lighter too.

You couldn't buy a new Euro 4 VG class bus new anymore even if you wanted to.

punisher5112

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Since they got rid of the last of the non-low-floor double deckers (the late '90s ones with the Volvo logo going across the grille), I have no preference. I hated those buses with a passion. The water leaking through the poorly-fitted rubber around the upstairs windows... the constant puddle/pool sloshing around on the floor... the resultant damp smell... that 'ping... ping... ping' alarm... the sound of the driver punching the dashboard to (only momentarily) shut the alarm up. When the original low-floor double deckers started appearing in the early 2000s, they were an improvement in every possible way.

They were the best bus ever no messing.

Brilliant drive and handled so well.

markpb

punisher5112 wrote: »

They were the best bus ever no messing. Brilliant drive and handled so well.

They were pretty miserable for the other hundred people on the bus I could be wrong but I think they were the same buses that had the lower-front saloon plunged into darkness at night because the lights would cause a reflection on the drivers windscreen.

punisher5112

markpb wrote: »

They were pretty miserable for the other hundred people on the bus I could be wrong but I think they were the same buses that had the lower-front saloon plunged into darkness at night because the lights would cause a reflection on the drivers windscreen.

If people opened the windows they wouldn't steam up and yes I agree the water would slosh around and at times come down into the cab.

They needed drain holes like the gt and sg.

I found them very comfortable as a passenger also.

Miss the sounds off them too.

CatInABox

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Since they got rid of the last of the non-low-floor double deckers (the late '90s ones with the Volvo logo going across the grille), I have no preference. I hated those buses with a passion. The water leaking through the poorly-fitted rubber around the upstairs windows... the constant puddle/pool sloshing around on the floor... the resultant damp smell... that 'ping... ping... ping' alarm... the sound of the driver punching the dashboard to (only momentarily) shut the alarm up. When the original low-floor double deckers started appearing in the early 2000s, they were an improvement in every possible way.

I have to admit, I haven't joined this conversation about what type of buses people like or don't like, mainly because I don't care, but this just made me shiver.

I HATED these buses.

Qrt

CatInABox wrote: »

I have to admit, I haven't joined this conversation about what type of buses people like or don't like, mainly because I don't care, but this just made me shiver.

I HATED these buses.

Were these the ones with the handrail at the doorway?

dashcamdanny

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Does it bother you driving a foreign built bus as well, or is that somehow different?

What? You come out with some amount of scutter. :rolleyes: What do you think?

MJohnston

dashcamdanny wrote: »

What? You come out with some amount of scutter. :rolleyes: What do you think?

Scutter like saying that foreign private companies will pay drivers less than Irish private companies? You still haven't clarified what you meant by that.

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

Miss the sounds off them too.

"ping...ping...ping...ping..."

punisher5112

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

"ping...ping...ping...ping..."

Nothing a ticket roll couldn't fix.

Mechanics loved them as they could fix pretty much anything at roadside.

Obviously at the end they were well past it but an overhaul could have had them right.

.G.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Since they got rid of the last of the non-low-floor double deckers (the late '90s ones with the Volvo logo going across the grille), I have no preference. I hated those buses with a passion. The water leaking through the poorly-fitted rubber around the upstairs windows... the constant puddle/pool sloshing around on the floor... the resultant damp smell... that 'ping... ping... ping' alarm... the sound of the driver punching the dashboard to (only momentarily) shut the alarm up. When the original low-floor double deckers started appearing in the early 2000s, they were an improvement in every possible way.

The drivers loved them too, when I was one you'd be delighted when you got allocated one however in my garage senior drivers pretty much took whatever bus they fancied, especially if they were allocated a dud so there were a few occasions where'd you'd be allocated and AV but it'd be gone!

Qrt

I did notice that some of the 175 drivers seem to need a lot more practice...

dfx-

CatInABox wrote: »

I have to admit, I haven't joined this conversation about what type of buses people like or don't like, mainly because I don't care, but this just made me shiver.

I HATED these buses.

the overarching ontopic point of this conversation is people's perception of buses. I would put it that nobody really cares whether it's shiny with WiFi etc. and not that an AV is no different to the RHs of the early 90s.

The AV is a world away from them and very reliable. AXs very rarely break down being an upgraded AV. Similarly the RVs of the early 90s were superb, being the culmination of ten years work with the RA and the horrid RH of the early 90s.

From a passenger experience an AV is perfectly good enough and modern. The pollution argument is a separate thing.

TallGlass

Go Ahead have no one to blame but themselves, the starting wage is miserable, they turned what I can imagine a lot of people off with it. I was considering it, but not a chance for that low a wage, you'd have less stress and less responsibility working in Mc Donalds for wages near it.

Also I don't blame GA for people not passing there tests, there is alot of pressure on them to pass and it's not exactly like a car test. Again the pay doesn't reflect all this. The RSA are rightly failing people if they don't deem them up to driving a bus around. Simple as that.