Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

xper wrote: »

Yeah, saw one of these in person earlier today. Good layout. Only criticism I would have is the the overemphasis on differentiating the operators - TFI should be doing everything they can to make sure customers understand that the Go-Ahead and Dublin Bus routes are all part of a combined city service.

Well I can't imagine that will be an easy sell to DB, considering how important they see their brand. The TFI branding with the operators brands as sub brands, like they are in the new timetable displays and stops and NTA livery, is a good interim measure and a staging post towards full integration I'd say.

Realistically from the start of the 175, Dublin Bus should be using the TFI Journey Planner rather than their own, since this is my big fears about fragmentation, that the DB site won't acknowledge the GA services exist. Since GA and LUAS are using the multi-mode, all operator planner, Dublin Bus should too.

xper wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point- this question shouldn't even be occurring to any customer.

We also need to see tickets being rebranded as well, since it sounds a little confusing that Dublin Bus tickets are accepted on Go-Ahead services. Really the best interim measure here would be to brand them as TFI ramblers for example, and but also feature something to denote they are valid on both GA and DB services, phasing it out over time.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't know what the deal is with real time but can DB or filter out GAI services from their real time which is being feed to them by the NTA. I know BE services do not appear on the DB app however they are a different type of service to DB and GA urban services so perhaps the NTA could block DB from filtering out GAI services from their app.

I believe buses feed into a central system that then feeds data out to sources, such as the street signs, the various apps and websites. I would say that DB would only get a feed of their own services and they probably do some post processing to put the features like delay expected and this is why the DB app can show short terminations and the other places can't - the raw data doesn't say this, but they probably override it before sending it via their app. DB certainly don't seem to be using the raw feed, as I've often seen the DB app and Street signs disagree, but RTI and Street signs and RTPI.ie almost always agree.

Anyway I don't think we should be promoting DB listing GAI services on their own app as anything other than an interim measure. We should be moving away from operator apps and replacing them with a single TFI app. If you remove the DB app completely everyone will then use Real Time Ireland and the National Journey Planner App and the problem is gone without having to do anything overnight.

I agree with your sentiment but I don't think "TFI rambler" would work either as that would imply these tickets are also valid on IE and Luas which they are not which are also under the TFI banner.

Come to think of it I agree. You can't really use "TFI Dublin Bus Rambler" because that makes it feels like it's only accepted on Dublin Bus. If you use "TFI Bus Rambler" it makes it seem like it's valid outside Dublin. I think Rambler might even be trademarked, but I'm not sure, so they'll have to use a different name anyway. They could just go for something generic rather than branded though like a 30 day Dublin city bus pass saying it's valid on any DB or TFI branded service, but then you have things like the 139 where it's not and TFI branded BE services.

Not sure how they will fix this one!

Stevek101 wrote: »

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/customer-notice-about-new-bus-service-175-from-citywest-to-ucd/

It looks like two liveries will remain in situ.

That's very much not a good thing for the customer if Dublin Bus will not be adapting the new integrated livery or using the same uniform stops. I wonder if that is because of resistance from their side more than anything else, because the NTA have a contractual right to force them to adapt the livery in theory.

Don't think this is going to serve consumers well, you need everything to act as one system really and it seems that whilst GA are going to be promoting the TFI brand and also LUAS are promoting integration to a degree, Dublin Bus may well not be, which ultimately means serving the public transport users interests in relation to a properly integrated system, are not really going to be met.

Also can't help feeling that this might accelerate any plans to tender more out at the end of the day, since if the NTA feel that they cannot meet their objectives with the current structure of the operators, they may well look for a way to change the structure to one where they can.

Stevek101 wrote: »

It would appear the yellow front about as much for visual impairment as it is a meet in the middle livery.

Not really meeting in the middle though if Dublin Bus are still going to stick to their old livery and not adapt to the new, integrated one, even after a yellow front has been added to it as a compromise and they are also continuing to plough their own furrow with relation to apps, timetables and journey planning etc which is going to create confusion in the short term.

I see why Dublin Bus might resist the new livery, even if I don't agree with them, but I can't think that will do anything else other than just encourage them to tender more out at a later date. My concern is how the interests of the public in having an integrated system doesn't seem to be high on the agenda of companies who were set up to serve the public before all else.

Can you imagine if in London where most operators of public transport services had their own app, their own website, their own journey planner that doesn't include other operators under the TFL banner? Planning a journey would be a complete nightmare as would getting information when you'd have to use a number of different apps and it'd still be difficult.

Really parties, be that private or public, who are running taxpayer contracts services need to think about the public first and foremost. If they want to concentrate on brands, private interests, then there is a commercial licensing route for that, they can't have the security of tens of millions of public funds for services, whilst also having the freedom of being a fully commercial enterprise.

Stephen15 wrote: »

They could gone for a livery with yellow at the front the rest blue and then DB and GAI could make their own slight customisation IE the bus would be 80% in TFI livery and 20% in DB/GAI livery but would still look the same at the front. Similar to how London buses used to be where operators could make their own slight adjustments to the red.

The idea of allowing the operator to have their logo rather than just a name in normal font was a concession that the NTA made from the original proposals.