Is this Dublin team the greatest in Gaelic football history

Powerhouse · 03-09-2018 8:32pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Getting to use the national gaa stadium

Hang on now.......one minute it’s Dublin’s home ground, and now it’s the National GAA stadium. Jack McCaffrey could hardly keep up with these moving goalposts.

odyssey06 · 03-09-2018 8:34pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

Precisely my point. So it wouldn’t have mattered whether Kerry played three games or ten games. They’d have won anyway. It is a weak reason to try to differentiate between Kerry’s and Dublin’ achievements.

They would have won, but not with such a small squad of players.

blanch152 · 03-09-2018 8:42pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yep and then this is Kerry's record in 1980 and 1981...

1980 Three games won by 10 points, 5 points and 3 points
1981 Four games won by 23 points, 11 points, 16 points and 7 points

With only 7 games over 2 years, it is easy to keep the same 15 players.

The increased number of games, together with the increased frequency means no team can start the Championship even two years in a row with the same team.

Powerhouse · 03-09-2018 8:43pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

They would have won, but not with such a small squad of players.

But I don’t get the point about the size of Kerry’s squad. They seemed to be adequate for their requirements. It is also fair to point out that they were pulling from a three in a row under-21 winning squads (1973-75-76-77) so would hardly have lacked depth if required for a longer campaign I’d think.

Powerhouse · 03-09-2018 8:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

With only 7 games over 2 years, it is easy to keep the same 15 players.

The increased number of games, together with the increased frequency means no team can start the Championship even two years in a row with the same team.

Yes, but I just don’t see the relevance. Who cares whether a team has the exact same 15 players or not?

blanch152 · 03-09-2018 8:49pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

Yes, but I just don’t see the relevance. Who cares whether a team has the exact same 15 players or not?

Some posters are pointing to Dublin not using the same 15 players as a reason why Kerry are better. I am just pointing out that because of the differences in structure, there is no reason why this Dublin team, playing in that era, would have used more than 15, or that Kerry team playing in this era, would have used 26-30.

Slattsy · 03-09-2018 8:51pm

Without doubt.

odyssey06 · 03-09-2018 8:53pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Some posters are pointing to Dublin not using the same 15 players as a reason why Kerry are better. I am just pointing out that because of the differences in structure, there is no reason why this Dublin team, playing in that era, would have used more than 15, or that Kerry team playing in this era, would have used 26-30.

Exactly, it's like saying a future Liverpool team could never be as good as the teams of the early 1980s, even if they match them for trophies, because in the early 80s teams used fewer players and had smaller, more stable squads.

legendary.xix · 03-09-2018 8:55pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Rural opponent? You make it sound like they come up only on 8th December once a year to shop.
Tyrone played in Croke Park on 12th August 2018.

It's not like going to play Red Star Belgrade behind the Iron Curtain in 1980.

The ticket allocations for the final reflect that. Compare with a real home team in the Premier League or Champions League who get 90% of the tickets.

It's no coincidence that Dublin's form has improved since they started playing home league games in Croke Park. It's a new dynamic since 2011 and a massive advantage to have.

You then factor in that Dublin Region consisting of Dublin City, Fingal County, South Dublin County and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County. Dublin is now essentially the 5th province of Ireland.

BonnieSituation · 03-09-2018 8:56pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

It's no coincidence that Dublin's form has improved since they started playing home league games in Croke Park. It's a new dynamic since 2011 and a massive advantage to have.

You then factor in that Dublin Region consisting of Dublin City, Fingal County, South Dublin County and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County. Dublin is now essentially the 5th province of Ireland.

Lads... more power to you for continuing on with this absolute nonsense.

I'm out.

COYBIB!

LeinsterDub · 03-09-2018 8:58pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

You can’t compare.......with credibility. You are assuming that a notional game between Dublin and a team from 50 years ago would take place on Dublin’s terms i.e. with their fitness regime as the benchmark, while assuming that the other team is not allowed to reach that. Why? Fitness is achievable and measurable. Presumably in a Harry Potter type world where such matches could take place the first issue the old time team would address would be the fitness deficit. Yet the first thing mentioned by the if-it-happened-five-minutes-ago-it’s-the-best-of-all-time is fitness. That’s one of the reason such discussions are ludicrous.

Your assuming a team from 50 years ago would have the commitment to reach that level of fitness. We've all heard the stories of the teams of the 70's and 80's drinking before a match. Charlie Redmond was smoking 20 a day in the 90's

blanch152 · 03-09-2018 8:58pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

It's no coincidence that Dublin's form has improved since they started playing home league games in Croke Park. It's a new dynamic since 2011 and a massive advantage to have.

You then factor in that Dublin Region consisting of Dublin City, Fingal County, South Dublin County and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County. Dublin is now essentially the 5th province of Ireland.

Dublin played their league games in Croke Park for years during the wilderness times and it never made a difference.

Just another lemony excuse.

nice_guy80 · 03-09-2018 9:03pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Dublin played their league games in Croke Park for years during the wilderness times and it never made a difference.

Just another lemony excuse.

in the kip of an old stadium on a bang average pitch?

maybe the truth hurts and most of the rest of the country are fast losing interest in the county games due to the huge advantages given to Dublin by the GAA themselves

Danjamin1 · 03-09-2018 9:20pm

Are all the naysayers of the opinion that Dublin had no success before 2011? The way people are going on you’d swear they hadn’t won an all Ireland or played in Croke Park up until that point. They didn’t just suddenly start winning, Dublin were already a very successful county. And for all the moaning about population it didn’t matter a damn how many people were in Dublin between 1995 & 2011. Don’t think there was much complaining then.

odyssey06 · 03-09-2018 9:21pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

It's no coincidence that Dublin's form has improved since they started playing home league games in Croke Park. It's a new dynamic since 2011 and a massive advantage to have.

You then factor in that Dublin Region consisting of Dublin City, Fingal County, South Dublin County and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County. Dublin is now essentially the 5th province of Ireland.

By this logic its not a home game. Fingal or Dun Laoghaire to Croker is a commute!

Argument makes no sense. Their league and all ireland form both improved since then. Dublin has always been by far the largest population county... it didnt just happen in the last 15 years and equally a lot of the population increase is from abroad.

I can see Croke Park from Eastpoint business park but there are thousands of people there who dont know what gaelic football is... or want to.

legendary.xix · 03-09-2018 9:23pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

in the kip of an old stadium on a bang average pitch?

maybe the truth hurts and most of the rest of the country are fast losing interest in the county games due to the huge advantages given to Dublin by the GAA themselves

There's only one viable solution. Dublin as we know it taking up it's place as a province.

Dublin itself can be split in 4 at inter-county level using postcode areas as follows;

East Dublin - 1, 3, 5, 13 & 17.
North Dublin - 7, 9, 11, 15 & 20.
South Dublin - 2, 4, 6, 14, 16 & 18.
West Dublin - 8, 10, 12, 22 & 24.

odyssey06 · 03-09-2018 9:23pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Dublin played their league games in Croke Park for years during the wilderness times and it never made a difference.
Just another lemony excuse.

Yep if anything you would expect more home advantage from a crumbling stadium with crap facilities and mud sand pitch than a top of the line facility.

Speakerboxx · 03-09-2018 9:25pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

Cody has never managed a team to a football All Ireland so leave him out of it.

again you are as sharp as a razor with that comment full marks.

odyssey06 · 03-09-2018 9:25pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

There's only one viable solution. Dublin as we know it taking up it's place as a province.

Dublin itself can be split in 4 at inter-county level using postcode areas as follows;

East Dublin - 1, 3, 5, 13 & 17.
North Dublin - 7, 9, 11, 15 & 20.
South Dublin - 2, 4, 6, 14, 16 & 18.
West Dublin - 8, 10, 12, 22 & 24.

You forgot the Dublins that dont have postcodes, throw in 2 more sure while you are at it.

rm75 · 03-09-2018 9:30pm

invicta wrote: »

Your missing the point. No doubt about Dublinwinning all before them...but they have a third of the population,and home advantage 99%of the time. My point is the Kerry team of the early 80’s, tried Fellas in the league(s), and came back to the same TEAM!

Croke Park was effectively Kerrys home ground in the 80's. The top teams play consistently at Croke Park. Kerry and Mayo are well used to playing at Croke Park at this stage.

For a new team to the top table like Galway this year Dublin might have an advantage playing at Croke Park but anyone claiming Croke Park gives Dublin an advanatge over Kerry or Mayo is talking nonsense.

The standard in Ulster and Connacht was pretty poor in the 70's and 80's. Whoever won Leinster or Munster would win the AI until the mid 90's. In fact the only hope a Connacht/Ulster team had of even making the final was the years there was a Munster/leinster semi.

Having said that Kerry were a great team as are Dublin

Speakerboxx · 03-09-2018 9:34pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

There's only one viable solution. Dublin as we know it taking up it's place as a province.

Dublin itself can be split in 4 at inter-county level using postcode areas as follows;

East Dublin - 1, 3, 5, 13 & 17.
North Dublin - 7, 9, 11, 15 & 20.
South Dublin - 2, 4, 6, 14, 16 & 18.
West Dublin - 8, 10, 12, 22 & 24.

Oh Lord this again. What not split Kerry up as well while we are at it. North Kerry South Kerry West Kerry and East Kerry.

legendary.xix · 03-09-2018 9:41pm

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Are all the naysayers of the opinion that Dublin had no success before 2011? The way people are going on you’d swear they hadn’t won an all Ireland or played in Croke Park up until that point. They didn’t just suddenly start winning, Dublin were already a very successful county. And for all the moaning about population it didn’t matter a damn how many people were in Dublin between 1995 & 2011. Don’t think there was much complaining then.

2001 was the first time splitting Dublin was mooted. I agreed with it then and I agree with it now. Dublin is a province in modern Ireland. The GAA needs to embrace this evolution. It can actually bring the game to a higher level.

LeinsterDub · 03-09-2018 9:41pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

There's only one viable solution. Dublin as we know it taking up it's place as a province.

Dublin itself can be split in 4 at inter-county level using postcode areas as follows;

East Dublin - 1, 3, 5, 13 & 17.
North Dublin - 7, 9, 11, 15 & 20.
South Dublin - 2, 4, 6, 14, 16 & 18.
West Dublin - 8, 10, 12, 22 & 24.

How many counties do you plan to split Kilkenny and Kerry into?

odyssey06 · 03-09-2018 9:45pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How many counties do you plan to split Kilkenny and Kerry into?

Look at population of Cork and Galway v rest of their provinces. They would have to be split too because if you split Dublin they would be biggest single counties left.

Powerhouse · 03-09-2018 9:47pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Your assuming a team from 50 years ago would have the commitment to reach that level of fitness.

Indeed I am. Why shouldn’t I assume it? You are not suggesting the sport would have ceased to exist if training levels had increased years ago? That the sport would die off because inter-county managers couldn’t get people to commit? That’s a fantasy. Of course I will assume a team from 50 years ago would have the commitment.

ArielAtom · 03-09-2018 9:48pm

Yes.

Powerhouse · 03-09-2018 9:51pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How many counties do you plan to split Kilkenny and Kerry into?

Kilkenny have won 4 of their last 11 championship games. They should be split into individual parishes immediately with that level of dominance. It’s just not fair. They might soon get up to winning 50% of their matches and then where will we be. In further thrall to Cody.......that’s where.

legendary.xix · 03-09-2018 9:52pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How many counties do you plan to split Kilkenny and Kerry into?

When Dublin assumes it's position as a province, it will have 4 very competitive district county teams entering the All-Ireland championship. It will serve the sport better, giving more players in such a populous area the opportunity to rightly play at inter-county level.

An inter-provincial championship of the 5 provinces then will naturally be the highest level of competition in the sport.

The_Honeybadger · 03-09-2018 9:53pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

But you are contradicting yourself when you say that several retirements will affect Dublin while using the “if you had said to most people in 2015.....” about other players. I would also suggest that it is quite possible that many Dublin players will not see themselves as being defined by the five in a row. I’d be surprised if they were as hung up on who has the biggest mickey as people in other counties. They strike me as a group which thinks differently and you might be surprised what players might not be there next year or who might be there even a year later.

How am I contradicting myself? I think if they do the five in a row cluxton will retire which will be huge, he is the constant in this team and the leader. MDMA, McMahon and a handful of others will probably go as well, not specifically because they’ve done 5 in a row, but because their time will probably be up. The 2011-13 team will effectively be gone.

I expect some of the other teams will have risen up by 2020 and we could see a more balanced championship at that stage. I know Dubs don’t want to hear this but they really aren’t playing a whole lot at the minute. You’d struggle to pick another team worthy of an All Ireland which is unusual.

LeinsterDub · 03-09-2018 9:54pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

Indeed I am. Why shouldn’t I assume it? You are not suggesting the sport would have ceased to exist if training levels had increased years ago? That the sport would die off because inter-county managers couldn’t get people to commit? That’s a fantasy. Of course I will assume a team from 50 years ago would have the commitment.

I'm not suggesting it would have ceased to exist. I'm suggesting that the gifted players of years gone by wouldn't have had the level of commitment required. The players of days gone by have admitted numerous times they wouldn't of had the commitment required to be on today's s panels

Is this Dublin team the greatest in Gaelic football history

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