Is this Dublin team the greatest in Gaelic football history

Powerhouse

Bonniedog wrote: »

Would Lombardi's Packers of 1967 beaten Aaron Rodgers' Packer of 45 years later?

!

Honestly, don’t get us started on that old chestnut.........

odyssey06

Powerhouse wrote: »

But this is bonkers. The Dublin players drive around in sponsored cars. For the love of Jaysus if players from 50 years ago had that kind of luxury it’d be far easier to be “willing” to make “sacrifices”. You would think the players 50 years ago were living a life of decadence compared to the modern day spartans.

A car is a luxury? Are we still in the 50s?

It wouldnt be the same players because sport had changed so much. The profile of gaa players has changed.

Look at professional footballers at first division clubs in the 70 and 80s and their boozing during the season. They could well afford cars.

You couldnt do that now boozing several times a week and play in premier league without it severely affecting your career and contract prospects.

awec

legendary.xix wrote: »

Dublin competing in an inter-provincial championship against the other 4 provinces brings the sport to a higher level.

Connaught v Dublin
Leinster v Munster

Ulster v Connaught
Dublin v Leinster

Munster v Ulster
Leinster v Connaught

Munster v Dublin
Ulster v Leinster

Connaught v Munster
Dublin v Ulster

Top 2 from round robin series into the final.

How would this improve anything?

The Munster team would basically be Kerry playing in different jerseys.

The Ulster team would basically be Tyrone playing in different jerseys.

The Connacht team would be Mayo with a few lads from Galway or Roscommon.

But the Dubs would most likely still beat them all.

STB.

Powerhouse wrote: »

If you genuinely didn’t give a toss you wouldn’t have replied. Anyway the timeframe above is more sensible and the tone far less arrogant and more tolerable than your original “anyone who doesn’t agree with me has their up there arse”.

I responded as I dont like smart arses nor bullies. You are trying to be both.

If you want to mod the thread then you wont be allowed challenge every poster.

Like I said join an amateur debating society. Someone asked a question - its the thread title. You don't have to jump on every single post.

So whats it going to be ???

The_Honeybadger

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No I'm saying certain greats of the past wouldn't of had the commitment

You can’t possibly know that, they played at a time when having a few pints and eating whatever you wanted was the norm. Fellas hadn’t much of a clue what the impact of this was on their performance while guys nowadays have nutritionists and personal training plans and even psychologists to call upon.

Somebody else mentioned the sponsored cars and lucrative appearance gigs that the top players now enjoy. The lads years ago didn’t have that. There is an awful lot of perks that go with playing for a top county now, never mind the career opportunities it opens up for the elite players.

Some throwaway comment by a kerry player in 1980 cannot measure the above.

Bonniedog

legendary.xix wrote: »

Dublin competing in an inter-provincial championship against the other 4 provinces brings the sport to a higher level.

Connaught v Dublin
Leinster v Munster

Ulster v Connaught
Dublin v Leinster

Munster v Ulster
Leinster v Connaught

Munster v Dublin
Ulster v Leinster

Connaught v Munster
Dublin v Ulster

Top 2 from round robin series into the final.

I don't know what countyman you are but I propose that you are amalgamated with your neighbour in the interest of fair play. There.

Dublin along with less than half the counties currently part of the association kept the whole thing going for 20 difficult years after the Church and Brits terrorised the rest of country - basically every other county than Dublin, Wexford, Louth Kilkenny, Galway and the Munster counties after 1891. GAA almost disappeared in Ulster.

So don't be expecting us to accept either being split or turned into a province.

We apologise profusely for attempting to maintain high standards across all gaelic sports, male and female, and at all grades. Perhaps you would like us to disband altogether?

LeinsterDub

legendary.xix wrote: »

Dublin competing in an inter-provincial championship against the other 4 provinces brings the sport to a higher level.

Connaught v Dublin
Leinster v Munster

Ulster v Connaught
Dublin v Leinster

Munster v Ulster
Leinster v Connaught

Munster v Dublin
Ulster v Leinster

Connaught v Munster
Dublin v Ulster

Top 2 from round robin series into the final.

Great idea will save me €400 watching Dublin beating pure ****e in Leinster

Powerhouse

odyssey06 wrote: »

A car is a luxury? .

You need to read my post.

Powerhouse

STB. wrote: »

I responded as I dont like smart arses nor bullies. You are trying to be both.

If you want to mod the thread then you wont be allowed challenge every poster.

Like I said join an amateur debating society. Someone asked a question - its the thread title. You don't have to jump on every single post.

So whats it going to be ???

A lot of anger there.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't know what countyman you are but I propose that you are amalgamated with your neighbour in the interest of fair play. There.

Dublin along with less than half the counties currently part of the association kept the whole thing going for 20 difficult years after the Church and Brits terrorised the rest of country - basically every other county than Dublin, Wexford, Louth Kilkenny, Galway and the Munster counties after 1891. GAA almost disappeared in Ulster.

So don't be expecting us to accept either being split or turned into a province.

We apologise profusely for attempting to maintain high standards across all gaelic sports, male and female, and at all grades. Perhaps you would like us to disband altogether?

Do people like yourself see no problems with the current state of the game?
Just interested. Is there a Tyrone like siege mentality regarding leveling a very unlevel pitch?

Powerhouse

blanch152 wrote: »

It is very strange to see posters arguing in one thread that Dublin are not the greatest team of all time, yet they are arguing in another thread that Dublin's dominance is ruining the game.

I really don't understand it, while you can argue that Dublin are the GOAT but are not ruining the game with their dominance, you can hardly say that they are ruining the game with their dominance if they are not the GOAT, as the game would have been ruined sometime in the past by whoever is the GOAT.

I don’t see a necessary contradiction to be honest. A team can be dominant and that dominance can be argued to be bad without considering the team to be the greatest. There could be a view that the competition is not good. Of course the possible motivation for that opinion is another matter!!

LeinsterDub

mickeyk wrote: »

You can’t possibly know that, they played at a time when having a few pints and eating whatever you wanted was the norm.

That's exactly my point

odyssey06

mickeyk wrote: »

You can’t possibly know that, they played at a time when having a few pints and eating whatever you wanted was the norm. Fellas hadn’t much of a clue what the impact of this was on their performance while guys nowadays have nutritionists and personal training plans and even psychologists to call upon.

Its entirely reasonsble, given how different the sport is now, in terms of commitment and athleticism to expect that the profile of the players and composition of the teams would be different. In terms of age, real world jobs and longevity. Not entirely different but some change would be inevitable.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do people like yourself see no problems with the current state of the game?
Just interested. Is there a Tyrone like siege mentality regarding leveling a very unlevel pitch?

Sport is not about equality. If it was we would reduce everything to that leftie nonsense of musical chairs in which none of the chairs were taken away.

Life is unequal. All that sport can do is ensure that same playing rules apply to everyone. Which is what happens in GAA as it does in every other sport. Within those parameters it is up to teams and individuals to become the best. Not for some committee to engineer their success.

The_Honeybadger

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's exactly my point

I see you chopped the bit of my post that doesn’t suit your narrative. Nicely done.

Powerhouse

odyssey06 wrote: »

Its entirely reasonsble, given how different the sport is now, in terms of commitment and athleticism to expect that the profile of the players and composition of the teams would be different. In terms of age, real world jobs and longevity. Not entirely different but some change would be inevitable.

But that’s not the point he was making. He claimed that players from years ago would not have the commitment. He made no reference to lifestyle changes or issues or in any way qualified his remarks.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Sport is not about equality. If it was we would reduce everything to that leftie nonsense of musical chairs in which none of the chairs were taken away.

Life is unequal. All that sport can do is ensure that same playing rules apply to everyone. Which is what happens in GAA as it does in every other sport. Within those parameters it is up to teams and individuals to become the best. Not for some committee to engineer their success.

Dublin field one county team yet have vastly more material to pick from because of it's population and have vast resources to train and develop in comparison to most other counties.

Do you see that as a problem? Do you countenance anything that doesn't happen on the pitch as an influence on the game in general?

Danjamin1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dublin field one county team yet have vastly more material to pick from because of it's population and have vast resources to train and develop in comparison to most other counties.

Isn’t it funny how a county with a vastly larger population still fields players who are siblings (Brogan, Small), or who had a dad who played (Rock, Brogan, McCarthy)? The players might be available but the net Isn’t necessarily cast that wide.

Not to take away from any of those players of course, they’re all top quality.

LeinsterDub

mickeyk wrote: »

I see you chopped the bit of my post that doesn’t suit your narrative. Nicely done.

mickeyk wrote: »

You can’t possibly know that, they played at a time when having a few pints and eating whatever you wanted was the norm. Fellas hadn’t much of a clue what the impact of this was on their performance while guys nowadays have nutritionists and personal training plans and even psychologists to call upon.

Somebody else mentioned the sponsored cars and lucrative appearance gigs that the top players now enjoy. The lads years ago didn’t have that. There is an awful lot of perks that go with playing for a top county now, never mind the career opportunities it opens up for the elite players.

Some throwaway comment by a kerry player in 1980 cannot measure the above.

That's exactly my point. Happy now?

FrancieBrady

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Isn’t it funny how a county with a vastly larger population still fields players who are siblings (Brogan, Small), or who had a dad who played (Rock, Brogan, McCarthy)? The players might be available but the net Isn’t necessarily cast that wide.

Not to take away from any of those players of course, they’re all top quality.

That's not all that unusual anywhere, I can think of the Clerkin (Dad and son) in Monaghan, the Hughes brothers, the Murray brothers.

Runs in families on occasion.

You don't think having over a million as your base is a huge advantage?

Danjamin1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's not all that unusual anywhere, I can think of the Clerkin (Dad and son) in Monaghan, the Hughes brothers, the Murray brothers.

Runs in families on occasion.

You don't think having over a million as your base is a huge advantage?

You missed my point, in a county with that large a population it should be less likely to have siblings or multi-generational families involved in the team. I’m saying Dublin GAA has a pool they like to fish from.

FrancieBrady

Danjamin1 wrote: »

You missed my point, in a county with that large a population it should be less likely to have siblings or multi-generational families involved in the team. I’m saying Dublin GAA has a pool they like to fish from.

And I said that is not unusual and accounts for a fraction of the panel.

Can you answer the question now as it accounts for more than the number you have to pick from. Namely, what you get as a resource in grants. That's before you take into account sponsorship, which is also related to the size and attractiveness (to the sponsor) of the county in consumer terms, which attracts more money.

You don't think having over a million as your base is a huge advantage?

Danjamin1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And I said that is not unusual and accounts for a fraction of the panel.

Can you answer the question now as it accounts for more than the number you have to pick from. Namely, what you get as a resource in grants. That's before you take into account sponsorship, which is also related to the size and attractiveness (to the sponsor) of the county in consumer terms, which attracts more money.

Right, it wasn’t apparent that you were talking about money at all from those last few posts. I’ll leave aside sponsorship as that’s down to the individual county boards. It does sound like the injection of money from the GAA is disproportionate but I don’t know what the basis was for investment & grants so can’t really speculate. Maybe it was youth development in a county with an increasing young population? I don’t know. I do agree that distribution of funds should be more equitable but again as I don’t know how money is distributed I don’t know what the proposal should be to change it.

odyssey06

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't think having over a million as your base is a huge advantage?

It's irrelevent to this and any discussion. Dublin have always had the largest population. Doesn't always translate into success on the field, or even numbers of GAA players. Dublin had that huge advantage during Kerry's four in a row when Offaly was regularly beating them in Leinster. So what?

Dublin's huge population also supports the heartlands of Irish rugby, cricket, soccer etc and in a relatively recent development contains a quarter of a million people who weren't even born in Ireland whose interest in all things GAA is negligible.

Is this Dublin team the greatest? Yes. They've won 28 championship games in a row beating real competitors from all provinces. They didn't even need to use back door. They won every Super 8 game, home and away. They've dominated the National League.

nice_guy80

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's irrelevent to this and any discussion. Dublin have always had the largest population. Doesn't always translate into success on the field, or even numbers of GAA players. Dublin had that huge advantage during Kerry's four in a row when Offaly was regularly beating them in Leinster. So what?

Dublin's huge population also supports the heartlands of Irish rugby, cricket, soccer etc and in a relatively recent development contains a quarter of a million people who weren't even born in Ireland whose interest in all things GAA is negligible.

Is this Dublin team the greatest? Yes. They've won 28 championship games in a row beating real competitors from all provinces. They didn't even need to use back door. They won every Super 8 game, home and away. They've dominated the National League.

the one game they actually had to play in an away venue was the closest scoreline all year in the championship for the Dubs.
playing 90% of your games in your own home county is a huge advantage

Speakerboxx

Powerhouse wrote: »

Again, you contradict yourself.

you are doing that on the whole thread I have lost count at this stage.

robbiezero

awec wrote: »

How would this improve anything?

The Munster team would basically be Kerry playing in different jerseys.

The Ulster team would basically be Tyrone playing in different jerseys.

The Connacht team would be Mayo with a few lads from Galway or Roscommon.

But the Dubs would most likely still beat them all.

That must be a joke. Tyrone would hardly get 5 of an Ulster XV.
Also a Munster team would have less than 10 Kerry players I would think.

the_syco

Mutant z wrote: »

I know you have the great Kerry sides of the 70s and 80s including the 4 in a row but Dublin have now equalled that record after their victory over Tyrone yesterday to clinch yet another Sam Maguire with no sign of it abating.

How many of the Kerry players are from Kerry, and how many Dublin players are from Dublin? The way I see it is that anyone any good will continue being GAA if they get a job in Dublin, enabling Dublin to have the cream of the crop.

odyssey06

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the one game they actually had to play in an away venue was the closest scoreline all year in the championship for the Dubs.
playing 90% of your games in your own home county is a huge advantage

And Dublin's only real defeat this season came at home to Monaghan in the League, they were unbeaten away.

So I would not say it is a huge advantage. The effect of it must be relatively weak given all the years Dublin have played in Croke Park and didn't win championships.
Munster football finals are played on a rotating home and away basis now rather than a neutral venue, but there doesn't seem to be significant effect on results. Kerry beat Cork by more in Cork in 2014 but needed a replay in 2015 at home to win.
Same in 2017 and 2018, Kerry's margin of victory was great in Cork than at home.

Compare it to the home advantage of a team in the Premier League who gets 90% of ticket allocations. Dublin don't get that for semi finals or finals.

Tyrone played their semi final in Croke Park. It's not like they are playing in an unknown stadium.

FrancieBrady

odyssey06 wrote: »

And Dublin's only real defeat this season came at home to Monaghan in the League, they were unbeaten away.

So I would not say it is a huge advantage. The effect of it must be relatively weak given all the years Dublin have played in Croke Park and didn't win championships.
Munster football finals are played on a rotating home and away basis now rather than a neutral venue, but there doesn't seem to be significant effect on results. Kerry beat Cork by more in Cork in 2014 but needed a replay in 2015 at home to win.

Compare it to the home advantage of a team in the Premier League who gets 90% of ticket allocations. Dublin don't get that for semi finals or finals.

Tyrone played their semi final in Croke Park. It's not like they are playing in an unknown stadium.

The point about the home advantage is that it is part of a perfect storm for this Dublin team.
Add to it, the base population and the massive per capita grant this brings in and the sponsorship they have available.

And yes you are correct, Monaghan are the only team to beat Dublin this year.