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Is this Dublin team the greatest in Gaelic football history

  • 03-09-2018 3:21pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭ Mutant z


    I know you have the great Kerry sides of the 70s and 80s including the 4 in a row but Dublin have now equalled that record after their victory over Tyrone yesterday to clinch yet another Sam Maguire with no sign of it abating. When you look at the never ending amount of young stars coming through the ranks its not inconceivable that they could go on to surpass that great Kerry team to win 5,6,7 etc on the bounch. They are that far ahead of everyone else its impossible to see anyone stopping them in the near future. Yes the other counties need to raise their own games but there's no doubt this current Dublin side are a very special team indeed.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,057 ✭✭✭✭ Water John
    Registered User


    I suppose the actual members of the Dublin team rollover fairly rapidly. How many of the starting 15 yesterday have the 4 all Ireland medals?


  • Registered Users Posts: 517 benji79
    Registered User


    I would say yes given the modern set up and format of championship

    That kerry team was great but less games etc required to win an All Ireland


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭ Mutant z


    They always look they could easily click into first gear whenever they need even when someone gains a few points on them they respond with another 5 or 6, their fitness levels are through the roof they make nearly every other county look like a bunch of old men by comparison they are real athletes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 919 ✭✭✭ Danjamin1
    Registered User


    Water John wrote: »
    I suppose the actual members of the Dublin team rollover fairly rapidly. How many of the starting 15 yesterday have the 4 all Ireland medals?

    Well off the top of my head there's:
    Cluxton
    Cooper
    O'Sullivan
    McMahon
    McCaffrey - Has 4 but not 4 in a row
    Rock
    Kilkenny
    Fenton
    Small

    Then in the subs you have:
    Fitzsimons
    McCauley
    Brogan
    Flynn
    McManamon
    Andrews
    O'Gara

    May have missed one or two as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,057 ✭✭✭✭ Water John
    Registered User


    Yes there speed and fitness is exceptional. Also ball always into space, receiver has to accelerate into that space to get the ball and thus has the half yard on his opponent.
    Yes I agree a fabulous team.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭ corny
    Registered User


    A good comparison isn't possible imo. The game was so different in the seventies you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a different sport.

    Anyway, i find most of the people keen on giving an opinion on this never actually saw Kerry play. A bit like the lads who tell you with conviction Ronaldo and Messi are the best ever in soccer. They can't even remember Zidane ffs. Nevermind Maradona or Pele.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 jr86


    Danjamin1 wrote: »
    Well off the top of my head there's:
    Cluxton
    Cooper
    O'Sullivan
    McMahon
    McCaffrey - Has 4 but not 4 in a row
    Rock
    Kilkenny
    Fenton
    Small

    Then in the subs you have:
    Fitzsimons
    McCauley
    Brogan
    Flynn
    McManamon
    Andrews
    O'Gara

    May have missed one or two as well.

    Mannion has 4 aswell, although he didn't play in 2015 iirc


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭ invicta
    Registered User


    I still think as a ‘team’ the Kerry team from 77 to 82 can never be overtaken, simply because it was practically the same 22 - 25 fellas that started in 77 were still there in 82.
    How many players have Dublin “blooded” in the last 5 years???


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx
    Registered User


    Multiple teams have done 4 in a row. No team in senior hurling or football have done 5 in a row. That will define if they are the greatest team of all time. Until Dublin achieve this they will be considered as just a good team for now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian
    Registered User


    It’s not an apples to apples comparison though.
    The resources and facilities at their disposal edge them towards semi profession status and so comparing them to true amateure teams isn’t quite right. Bit like comparing a premiership team to all the division three teams in the U.K.

    That doesn’t distract from their individual fitness and skill though, just points out that the means to produce that isn’t available to the other counties and so comparing the overall teams is pointless.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx
    Registered User


    invicta wrote: »
    I still think as a ‘team’ the Kerry team from 77 to 82 can never be overtaken, simply because it was practically the same 22 - 25 fellas that started in 77 were still there in 82.
    How many players have Dublin “blooded” in the last 5 years???

    exactly. since 2015 Dublin haven't had the exact same team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭ invicta
    Registered User


    Multiple teams have done 4 in a row. No team in senior hurling or football have done 5 in a row. That will define if they are the greatest team of all time. Until Dublin achieve this they will be considered as just a good team for now.

    O no, they haven’t!
    Wexford in hurling and Kerry (2ice) in football!


  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭ yobr
    Registered User


    Do we really need another thread on this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭ jon1981
    Registered User


    invicta wrote: »
    I still think as a ‘team’ the Kerry team from 77 to 82 can never be overtaken, simply because it was practically the same 22 - 25 fellas that started in 77 were still there in 82.
    How many players have Dublin “blooded” in the last 5 years???

    Intensity, physicality and commitment required is larger than ever. You can't truly compare them. Those same 22-25 fellas would be out having pints after training, there's none of that now. Injuries are more prevalent now due to the level of performance and training required, you have to expect key players to miss large portions of a season, if not an entire season over the course of their county career.

    We're nearly talking about comparing systems or setups now instead of teams.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    Yes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 Powerhouse


    Multiple teams have done 4 in a row. No team in senior hurling or football have done 5 in a row. That will define if they are the greatest team of all time. Until Dublin achieve this they will be considered as just a good team for now.

    Dublin is already a great team to be fair. The five in a row could come down to the bounce of a ball in the last minute of the final. Does it going against Dublin really make the difference between the being a good and great team? I don’t think so.

    I think the thread overall is pointless. Who is really qualified to comment? Chances are that on an internet discussion there are very few who would remember more than a handful of years back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭ munster87
    Registered User


    Near impossible to compare. The sport is completely different now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    Yes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ Billy86


    invicta wrote: »
    I still think as a ‘team’ the Kerry team from 77 to 82 can never be overtaken, simply because it was practically the same 22 - 25 fellas that started in 77 were still there in 82.
    How many players have Dublin “blooded” in the last 5 years???
    exactly. since 2015 Dublin haven't had the exact same team.
    I don't see how having so much depth can be held against players, it never has for Brazil in football or New Zealand in rugby and to be honest there's a whiff of clutching at straws about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭ Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered User


    Well they would hammer the great teams from past decades. But that just shows how the sport has changed. A division 4 team of today would very likely beat the Kerry four-in-a-row team.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 Powerhouse


    jon1981 wrote: »

    Those same 22-25 fellas would be out having pints after training, there's none of that now.

    This is the kind of BS that makes a thread like this pointless. Pints after training..........FFS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭ invicta
    Registered User


    munster87 wrote: »
    Near impossible to compare. The sport is completely different now.

    Yes! But the post is,
    “Is this Dublin TEAM the greatest in football history”

    I don’t think so,simply because of the number of players used over the last 5 years!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭ Badabing
    Registered User


    invicta wrote:
    O no, they haven’t! Wexford in hurling and Kerry (2ice) in football!


    Wexford Footballers did 4 in a row


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ Billy86


    Well they would hammer the great teams from past decades. But that just shows how the sport has changed. A division 4 team of today would very likely beat the Kerry four-in-a-row team.
    Yeah, I've never been a fan of that argument either - even your Pele's and Maradona's would look distinctly average in their own sport if you just popped them from their prime into a time machine to the modern day, without giving them access from a young age to the modern training techniques, technology, tactical knowledge, etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 Powerhouse



    . A division 4 team of today would very likely beat the Kerry four-in-a-row team.

    How do you work this out?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,029 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152
    Registered User


    Danjamin1 wrote: »
    Well off the top of my head there's:
    Cluxton
    Cooper
    O'Sullivan
    McMahon
    McCaffrey - Has 4 but not 4 in a row
    Rock
    Kilkenny
    Fenton
    Small

    Then in the subs you have:
    Fitzsimons
    McCauley
    Brogan
    Flynn
    McManamon
    Andrews
    O'Gara

    May have missed one or two as well.

    It's a 21-man game now, and you need the options on the bench. The days you could win a handy All-Ireland in three games like Kerry did are long gone. Every time plays 8 or 9 games nowadays and there will be bumps and bruises. The turnover in the Dublin team has been grossly overstated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship_Final

    9 of the players who started in 2015, started yesterday. Of the rest, Bastick is retired, O'Carroll is in New Zealand and Connolly is in the USA. Three enforced changes.

    Flynn and Andrews, who started in 2015 were on the bench yesterday. Brogan would have been too, if he had been fit enough. All played in the Championship this year.

    Six players came on in 2015 - Daly, Fitzsimons, McAuley, Small, McManamon and Alan Brogan, five of them saw action yesterday.

    So, of the 21 players used in 2015, two have retired - Bastick and Alan Brogan - while two others - Connolly and O'Carroll - have made themselves unavailable. The other 17 saw Championship action this year. Incidentally, Lowndes and Costello were unused subs.

    Murchan, O'Callaghan, Howard and Scully are the only real additions to the squad since 2015. Mannion was on a year off in China. Those four effectively replace Bastick, Alan Brogan, O'Carroll and Connolly.

    I make it that Cluxton, McMahon, Daly, O'Sullivan, Cooper, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Lowndes, Small, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion, Brogan, McAuley, McManamon, Fitzsimons, Flynn, O'Gara, Andrews, Connolly, Costello, Byrne, all have at least four All-Ireland medals.

    For a modern day team, it is a remarkable achivement to maintain that level of consistency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ shockframe
    Registered User


    It's about even with themselves and Kerry.

    Jack O'Shea mentioned that the 4 in a row Kerry team picked more or less the same players as opposed to Dublin who had more players.

    That 4 in a row was Kerrys 5th All Ireland in 7 years. This is Dublins 6th in 8.

    There's a case to be made for both being even as if you go to the start of Kerrys era in 75 to 81 with Dublins win in 2013 to now both sides have around half of their team still playing (involved in 5 wins).

    A 5 in a row would settle it. It would be a perfect record in finals. 7 in 9 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭ Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered User


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    How do you work this out?

    They would be immensely fitter and stronger and would have much more tactical knowledge.

    I think this is true in most sports. A mediocre premier league team of today would likely beat the Liverpool team from the 80s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭ Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered User


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Yeah, I've never been a fan of that argument either - even your Pele's and Maradona's would look distinctly average in their own sport if you just popped them from their prime into a time machine to the modern day, without giving them access from a young age to the modern training techniques, technology, tactical knowledge, etc.

    Well, that's my point- it's very hard to compare players or teams from different eras.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ Billy86


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It's a 21-man game now, and you need the options on the bench. The days you could win a handy All-Ireland in three games like Kerry did are long gone. Every time plays 8 or 9 games nowadays and there will be bumps and bruises. The turnover in the Dublin team has been grossly overstated.

    <snip>

    For a modern day team, it is a remarkable achivement to maintain that level of consistency.
    Countdown to "this Dublin team can't be all that great when they're so reliant on just a handful of players..." :D


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