EU to recommend abolishing DST

StereoSound · 31-08-2018 1:21pm #1

Not a bad idea... Was always stupid I thought. Putting clocks forward and back, Leave it at the same time.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/31/eu-recommend-member-states-abolish-daylight-saving-time

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-08-2018 1:24pm

About time!

GLaDOS · 31-08-2018 1:28pm

I do agree, the problem I have is that as far as I'm aware, it's the "winter time" that's default, so we'd end up with earlier sunsets during the summer. Would rather it the "summer time" all year instead.

edit, actually only skimmed the article, that's what's proposed.

Fr Tod Umptious · 31-08-2018 1:28pm

So it will not get bright till close on 10am in the west in the dead of winter.

Stupid idea.

Shenshen · 31-08-2018 1:30pm

GLaDOS wrote: »

I do agree, the problem I have is that as far as I'm aware, it's the "winter time" that's default, so we'd end up with earlier sunsets during the summer. Would rather it the "summer time" all year instead.

That was one of the question in the survey.
When I took it, I voted for keeping summer time year round.

GLaDOS · 31-08-2018 1:31pm

Shenshen wrote: »

That was one of the question in the survey.
When I took it, I voted for keeping summer time year round.

Sorry yeah I only skimmed the article, that's what's actually proposed.

Taytoland · 31-08-2018 1:36pm

I won't be listening to the EU on this. I will stick to how it currently is. Let EU nations follow if they must.

Strazdas · 31-08-2018 1:51pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So it will not get bright till close on 10am in the west in the dead of winter.

Stupid idea.

They would still get the extra hour of daylight in the evening time in the middle of winter just like everyone else. Maybe plenty of people would be quite happy with this.

seamus · 31-08-2018 1:55pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So it will not get bright till close on 10am in the west in the dead of winter.

Stupid idea.

Swings and roundabouts. The sun setting at 4 o'clock in the afternoon is just as absurd as it not rising till 10am.

You can't control the basic physics, only the labels we apply to it. Personally I feel that a later sunset in the winter would be worth having the later sunrise.

ahnowbrowncow · 31-08-2018 1:55pm

Taytoland wrote: »

I won't be listening to the EU on this. I will stick to how it currently is. Let EU nations follow if they must.

So you're planning on turning up an hour late for everything?

wexie · 31-08-2018 2:06pm

seamus wrote: »

You can't control the basic physics, only the labels we apply to it.

It seems though that there are people out there who think that DST actually somehow magically changes the amount of 'daytime' in the day during the winter.

4068ac1elhodqr · 31-08-2018 2:08pm

First they start messing with the time, next it'll be the corporation tax,
- all in the name of glorious 'harmonisation', a pretty word sometimes with ugly consequences.

What about sticking an artifical sun lamp up in the sky over Northern Europe
e.g. Mass of xenon lamps in geo-sat, solar/wind charged by day, but ramped up sunrise/sunset.
Sunny days (and night)!

pleas advice · 31-08-2018 2:11pm

'time' is a social construct, maan...

Conall Cernach · 31-08-2018 2:12pm

If they keep us on Summer time then Noon (the point at which the Sun is highest in the sky) will not be Noon (12 O'Clock). I know that this has not been the case in Ireland since the adoption of GMT but we are only a few minutes behind.

Shenshen · 31-08-2018 2:14pm

Conall Cernach wrote: »

If they keep us on Summer time then Noon (the point at which the Sun is highest in the sky) will not be Noon (12 O'Clock). I know that this has not been the case in Ireland since the adoption of GMT but we are only a few minutes behind.

Unless you're using a sundial, why would that be a problem?

fxotoole · 31-08-2018 2:14pm

So the UK will stick with GMT while the rest of Europe standardises on a time that doesn't require changing the clocks twice a year?

topper75 · 31-08-2018 2:15pm

pleas advice wrote: »

'time' is a social construct, maan...

The term 'social construct' is also one.

Ha! now you are caught in a loop from which you can never be released.

Conall Cernach · 31-08-2018 2:15pm

Shenshen wrote: »

Unless you're using a sundial, why would that be a problem?

Because I am incredibly pedantic and it would annoy me.

wexie · 31-08-2018 2:18pm

Conall Cernach wrote: »

If they keep us on Summer time then Noon (the point at which the Sun is highest in the sky) will not be Noon (12 O'Clock). I know that this has not been the case in Ireland since the adoption of GMT but we are only a few minutes behind.

It already isn't, if you look at a map of the timezones more than half of the country should be in GMT -1 if you were to go by the orbit of the sun.

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Because I am incredibly pedantic and it would annoy me.

Don't go to the west coast so

topper75 · 31-08-2018 2:19pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So it will not get bright till close on 10am in the west in the dead of winter.

Stupid idea.

I'd be keen to learn why would you reckon that this morning hour (when most are in a lit classroom/workplace anyway) is the time of the day when we need the daylight. Would the daylight not be used better when kids and 9-5 workers have a chance to use it outdoors?

MrCostington · 31-08-2018 2:19pm

Riskymove · 31-08-2018 2:21pm

fxotoole wrote: »

So the UK will stick with GMT while the rest of Europe standardises on a time that doesn't require changing the clocks twice a year?

GMT is different issue Ireland would remain in the same timezone

if UK kept DST Ireland would be on GMT for half the year along with UK and then an hour apart the other half

but that is if UK kept it

GLaDOS · 31-08-2018 2:23pm

All I know is it is depressing as fúck when the clocks go back and suddenly you're leaving work in almost complete darkness

bennyineire · 31-08-2018 2:24pm

I think it's a great idea but ultimately we won't do it unless the U.K. agrees to it.

So basically it won't happen here, trying to get the U.K. to follow an suggestion from Europe ain't gonna fly

wexie · 31-08-2018 2:25pm

bennyineire wrote: »

I think it's a great idea but ultimately we won't do it unless the U.K. agrees to it.

So basically it won't happen here, trying to get the U.K. to follow an suggestion from Europe ain't gonna fly

I don't know if Ireland will have much of a choice in the matter if the rest of the EU decides it's the way to go.

El Weirdo · 31-08-2018 2:27pm

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

So you're planning on turning up an hour late for everything?

Well, him and his ilk are generally about a century behind the rest of civilization, so another hour isn't going to make much of a difference.

Riskymove · 31-08-2018 2:32pm

bennyineire wrote: »

I think it's a great idea but ultimately we won't do it unless the U.K. agrees to it.

So basically it won't happen here, trying to get the U.K. to follow an suggestion from Europe ain't gonna fly

well given 80% wanted these changes there may be an appetite for it in UK for same reasons. Their business/financial sector also probably wouldn't want to be another hour out of sync with European countries

also worth noting that Ireland was once in a different timezone and were 25 minutes behind UK

Kermit.de.frog · 31-08-2018 2:35pm

bennyineire wrote: »

I think it's a great idea but ultimately we won't do it unless the U.K. agrees to it.

So basically it won't happen here, trying to get the U.K. to follow an suggestion from Europe ain't gonna fly

Why do we need the UK to agree? We went metric when they didn't.

bennyineire · 31-08-2018 2:42pm

wexie wrote: »

I don't know if Ireland will have much of a choice in the matter if the rest of the EU decides it's the way to go.

Of course we will, not all European laws are the same for each country. This is not the USA.

Each member state can still choose if they want to keep DST or not

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why do we need the UK to agree? We went metric when they didn't.

Most people over 50 still use imperial here, besides that is a unit of measure you are talking about.

Also as you may or may not be aware 6 of the counties on this island are in the U.K. also the majority of our international business dealings are still with the U.K., I can guaranteed that Irish business will kick up a stink if we have a different time than the UK

Taytoland · 31-08-2018 2:43pm

El Weirdo wrote: »

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

So you're planning on turning up an hour late for everything?

Well, him and his ilk are generally about a century behind the rest of civilization, so another hour isn't going to make much of a difference.

Funny how progressives think only they are in the right.

GarIT · 31-08-2018 2:45pm

IMO we should calculate the mean time for solar noon across the country, make that noon and never change the clocks at any time during the year. If schools and work needs to start at 8am or 10am that's fine, it's only an abstract concept relative to a solar day anyway.

12pm should be the middle of the solar day and we should keep it at that all year long.

fxotoole · 31-08-2018 2:46pm

bennyineire wrote: »

I think it's a great idea but ultimately we won't do it unless the U.K. agrees to it.

So basically it won't happen here, trying to get the U.K. to follow an suggestion from Europe ain't gonna fly

If Brexit becomes a reality, they would be under no obligation to follow any EU Directives

bennyineire · 31-08-2018 2:46pm

GarIT wrote: »

IMO we should calculate the mean time for solar noon across the country, make that noon and never change the clocks at any time during the year. If schools and work needs to start at 8am or 10am that's fine, it's only an abstract concept relative to a solar day anyway.

12pm should be the middle of the solar day and we should keep it at that all year long.

Fatal flaw there, true noon is at a different time of the day depending where you are in Ireland

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 2:47pm

Conall Cernach wrote: »

If they keep us on Summer time then Noon (the point at which the Sun is highest in the sky) will not be Noon (12 O'Clock). I know that this has not been the case in Ireland since the adoption of GMT but we are only a few minutes behind.

It’s not like that in summer now either. In the west noon is 1:30 pm

wexie · 31-08-2018 2:47pm

GarIT wrote: »

IMO we should calculate the mean time for solar noon across the country, make that noon and never change the clocks at any time during the year. If schools and work needs to start at 8am or 10am that's fine, it's only an abstract concept relative to a solar day anyway.

12pm should be the middle of the solar day and we should keep it at that all year long.

Doing that would basically mean starting our own timezone of something like GMT -30 or 40 minutes which would just be more awkward.

Not that I completely disagree with your thinking....I just don't think it would be very practical.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 2:49pm

Riskymove wrote: »

GMT is different issue Ireland would remain in the same timezone

if UK kept DST Ireland would be on GMT for half the year along with UK and then an hour apart the other half

but that is if UK kept it

No? We will never be on GMT if this happens.

bennyineire · 31-08-2018 2:50pm

fxotoole wrote: »

If Brexit becomes a reality, they would be under no obligation to follow any EU Directives

It won't be a directive though, not a hope. It will only be a recommendation at best. The final say will still rest with the member state.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 2:58pm

GarIT wrote: »

IMO we should calculate the mean time for solar noon across the country, make that noon and never change the clocks at any time during the year. If schools and work needs to start at 8am or 10am that's fine, it's only an abstract concept relative to a solar day anyway.

12pm should be the middle of the solar day and we should keep it at that all year long.

What you are asking for here is a specific timezone for Ireland. That’s what time zones are, averages of the solar noon within that time zone. You want ireland to be GMT + 20minutes.

However the average will work only in one part of Ireland because the rest of Ireland won’t be exactly right for their solar noon.

(Actually to get more advanced that’s not true either. Solar Noon isn’t 24 hours apart).

So pointless.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 2:59pm

bennyineire wrote: »

It won't be a directive though, not a hope. It will only be a recommendation at best. The final say will still rest with the member state.

Directives are not binding either.

Riskymove · 31-08-2018 2:59pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No? We will never be on GMT if this happens.

well yes we'll be GMT+1

but we will still be the same time as UK half the year and an hour apart the rest

GMT+1

The Uk will be on GMT+1 half the year and GMT the other half

Riskymove · 31-08-2018 3:00pm

bennyineire wrote: »

It won't be a directive though, not a hope. It will only be a recommendation at best. The final say will still rest with the member state.

There is already an EU directive about DST

that is what has led to the EU review

Riskymove · 31-08-2018 3:01pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Directives are not binding either.

yes they are...why else would the EU be able to take States to court for not abiding by them

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 3:02pm

Riskymove wrote: »

well yes we'll be GMT+1

Which isn’t GMT.

Anyway the worst thing we could do is winter time all year round, but at least they are not suggesting that.

citytillidie · 31-08-2018 3:03pm

hour difference going 5 mins down the road will be fun

pickarooney · 31-08-2018 3:05pm

Would anyone vote for longer working days in summer and shorter in Winter?

Infini · 31-08-2018 3:07pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So it will not get bright till close on 10am in the west in the dead of winter.

Stupid idea.

Actually the winter is when clocks are at their correct position. Its the summer where theyre off by 1hr.

What it would mean though is in the summer the sun would set at 9pm and rise at 3am in ireland during mid summer.

Edit: Noticed that they want to stay on "Summer time" all year round. Definately wouldnt work for us here. Rather we should be on "winter time" all year round as we'd be matched to the solar day nore accurately.

GLaDOS · 31-08-2018 3:08pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Would anyone vote for longer working days in summer and shorter in Winter?

I'd rather work longer in the winter when the weather's shíte and have more time off in the summer when the weather's... a warmer type of shíte.

Riskymove · 31-08-2018 3:09pm

citytillidie wrote: »

hour difference going 5 mins down the road will be fun

it should be noted that this is the current reality in parts of Europe and other parts of the world and they manage

pickarooney · 31-08-2018 3:10pm

GLaDOS wrote: »

I'd rather work longer in the winter when the weather's sh and have more time off in the summer when the weather's... a warmer type of sh.

Hmm, if we could get the schools on board it might not be a bad idea.
I was thinking more along the lines of pulling the old switcharoo after two years and making the shorter working day standard all year round.

GarIT · 31-08-2018 3:12pm

bennyineire wrote: »

Fatal flaw there, true noon is at a different time of the day depending where you are in Ireland

Hence I used the word mean, so average, both averaged geographically and between days. Calculate one overall average time for the whole country and use that.

As a couple of users have pointed out that would probably have us at an awkward timezone. It could be partially resolved by rounding to the nearest 30 mins, or even to the nearest hour would be good enough.

Given geographic differences and differences between days it can't be done exactly but I think solar noon should be 12pm +/- 30 mins or if that can't be done in a way that accommodates business and ease of transitioning +/- 60 minutes, but we should roughly center out day around the average solar noon as much as possible instead of being 90 mins off as we are at the moment.

Sardine · 31-08-2018 3:12pm

I really hate the 4pm darkness. Please let this happen.

EU to recommend abolishing DST

Stick with Summer time or Winter time? 610 votes

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