EU to recommend abolishing DST

facehugger99

Sun startling to set already and it’s not even November. Stupid system.

Hopefully when the clock goes forward next March, it isn’t moved again.

prunudo

I don't really get what the problem with the current set up is. As somebody who works outdoors, all year summertime will be a disaster for the months of December and January, latest sunrise will be 9.40am, imagine a few weeks of overcast weather with that.
All year wintertime isnt ideal either with sunrise just before 4am at the peak. With that set up it will have been dark at 6pm the last month.

Mountainsandh

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I’d pick more light in the evenings when you can make some use of it. Kids are home at 4 and to have an hour of daylight is more beneficial than having it in the morning when they’re getting ready for school.

If we decided not to change things and stick with the ridiculous system of changing clocks twice a year why does it have to be October/March? Why not late November and early February which would make the most of available daylight hours. Changing the clocks in October is stupid, we don’t need extra daylight in the mornings as it’s bright enough but it being dark shortly after 5 is horrible and pointless when it doesn’t have to be!

Agree with all of that, but preferably get rid of the time change altogether.
Summertime all year ftw.

Franz Von Peppercorn

lawred2 wrote: »

So no reason why it's 'stupid' across Europe then.

I prefer longer evenings personally. But it's not something I'd be too upset about either way

Why is it so stupid in your mind for many countries around Europe?

I’ve already given my reasons. But see below.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jvan wrote: »

I don't really get what the problem with the current set up is. As somebody who works outdoors, all year summertime will be a disaster for the months of December and January, latest sunrise will be 9.40am, imagine a few weeks of overcast weather with that.
All year wintertime isnt ideal either with sunrise just before 4am at the peak. With that set up it will have been dark at 6pm the last month.

The ideal is sticking with summer and winter time in Northern Europe but reducing the winter time to 2-3 months.

Infini

jvan wrote: »

All year wintertime isnt ideal either with sunrise just before 4am at the peak. With that set up it will have been dark at 6pm the last month.

The thing though is that the sun rise at 4am in the summer is the way it was before WW1. The problem with all this clock changing nonsense is that it throws people off. I dont like it myself because if you have to go to bed early during the summer it can be too warm and it doesnt cool down till well after sunset, its why I prefer permenant wintertime.

prunudo

Agree, if they have to stick to one all year time I'd prefer wintertime.
Also agree with a shorter winter time of 2 or 3 months if they wanted to have a 2 time format.

Its the all year summertime that I dread.

Marhay70

Just stop changing the time whatever they leave it on. It's the abrupt loss of daylight that depresses the fcuk out of me.

Elmer Blooker

Marhay70 wrote: »

Just stop changing the time whatever they leave it on. It's the abrupt loss of daylight that depresses the fcuk out of me.

We aren't losing daylight, the brighter mornings are very welcome in my opinion.
Most posters here here seem to want an extra hour of daylight in the evenings at the expense of darker mornings but for what? ...... A December bbq, a picnic, maybe cutting the grass and a bit of gardening, a dip in the sea after work? We don't need an extra hour of daylight in December because by the end of January its bright at 6pm anyway, the dark evenings only last a few weeks before theres a 'grand stretch'.
Anyone who wants it pitch dark at 9am needs their head examined if you ask me.

Sun startling to set already and it’s not even November. Stupid system.

It isn't a 'system', at our latitude the loss of of daylight is astronomical.

lawred2

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The ideal is sticking with summer and winter time in Northern Europe but reducing the winter time to 2-3 months.

There's no doubt that it's too long. Late November to first week Feb would be ideal

Akrasia

well that's a trivial list of the uses for daylight..


In the evenings while it's still bright, kids can go out to play.

When it's dark, they're basically locked indoors from dawn till dusk.

Who benefits from brighter mornings? Milkmen?

Spanish Eyes

Could someone please explain to me the difference between year round Summer Time v year round Winter time. I am sorry to be so dense, but I am totally confused.

Also, getting up in the morning is miserable anyway, a bit of daylight doesn't help that if it is tipping down or cold and windy, and depending on your commute it's bright when you get to your destination anyway.

Far better to have a lighter evening IMO. Good for the soul.

r93kaey5p2izun

Dark mornings are a complete misery. Unbearable. I love dark evenings. Cosy. I cannot believe people are willing to have darkness up to 9.40am.

Spanish Eyes

Millie Ugly Statue wrote: »

Dark mornings are a complete misery. Unbearable. I love dark evenings. Cosy. I cannot believe people are willing to have darkness up to 9.40am.

Why not? What are you doing, getting up, into the shower, breakfast, kids ready, drop off, go to work. Aaaagh there's the light now that's all done!

Dark evenings cosy?

I think it is an individual thing myself.

Akrasia

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Could someone please explain to me the difference between year round Summer Time v year round Winter time. I am sorry to be so dense, but I am totally confused.

Also, getting up in the morning is miserable anyway, a bit of daylight doesn't help that if it is tipping down or cold and windy, and depending on your commute it's bright when you get to your destination anyway.

Far better to have a lighter evening IMO. Good for the soul.

on the shortest day of the year, during dst wintertime the sunrise is at about 8:30am
under 'summertime' that morning would have sunrise at 9:30am ish

but the evening sunshine would extend by an hour.

SPDUB

Akrasia wrote: »

well that's a trivial list of the uses for daylight..


In the evenings while it's still bright, kids can go out to play.

When it's dark, they're basically locked indoors from dawn till dusk.

Who benefits from brighter mornings? Milkmen?

Postmen as well , and as I know personally from a couple of years back, it is surprisingly difficult to read addresses on post in the dark .

ruwithme

I would be for keeping the fall back,spring forward as it is.it really is a question of when you would prefer the bit of light.mornings or evening?

i believe the problem if there is one is that the clock probably doesnt need to fall back for another 2weeks at least as we had a fairly good balance of day light up to yesterday.

also i believe it needs to spring forward maybe amonth earlier than it does as by end of January we will be not far off similar day light we have now.

Strazdas

Akrasia wrote: »

on the shortest day of the year, during dst wintertime the sunrise is at about 8:30am
under 'summertime' that morning would have sunrise at 9:30am ish

but the evening sunshine would extend by an hour.

I think the extra hour of daylight in the morning in winter is next to useless. Nearly everyone is travelling to work, school or college and nobody engaging in any sort of leisure activity.

The extra hour in the afternoon / evening would be much more convenient in that people can actually avail of it, especially at the weekend in terms of sports events, go for a walk in the park, play golf or whatever. As it stands, the midwinter nights are very long with it getting dark at 4pm and people still awake and up and about for the next 7-8 hours.

mrmorgan

What value does it bring anyway??

What would you end it on? When they go back or when they go forward??

ForestFire

On the choice between summer and winter time, why not just split the difference?

Yes... there are already countries on time zones on the half hour, and they seem to do just fine.

The other thing I would be open to, is reducing the time we spend on winter time, as others suggested, we have 7 weeks before shortest day and 13 weeks after?

Why the hell do we need twice as much time to change back?

Why not 7/8 weeks on each side?

We are probably waiting for a bank holiday!!

Strazdas

mrmorgan wrote: »

What value does it bring anyway??

What would you end it on? When they go back or when they go forward??

Permanent summer time is what they're thinking of ie. clocks would go forward next March and then stay forward (if they didn't go forward btw, we would be having sunrise at 4am in June in Dublin and sunset at 9pm)

mrmorgan

Strazdas wrote: »

Permanent summer time is what they're thinking of ie. clocks would go forward next March and then stay forward (if they didn't go forward btw, we would be having sunrise at 4am in June in Dublin and sunset at 9pm)

Makes sense really

dxhound2005

March 2021 is the last time clocks will be adjusted if the plan goes ahead.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45995634

Morocco has decided to scrap winter time and will instead keep its clocks at summer time, GMT+1, all year around.

The announcement comes less than two days before the clocks would have gone back by one hour on Sunday.

Avoiding the switch would save "an hour of natural light", Administrative Reform Minister Mohammed Ben Abdelkader told Maghreb Arabe Press.

The north African nation joins a number of others, mainly in Africa and Asia, which do not use daylight saving.

Technically speaking, they're staying on daylight saving time.

Could be very interesting on Monday morning to see how many didn't get the message to cancel the change. :pac:

Andy From Sligo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

March 2021 is the last time clocks will be adjusted if the plan goes ahead.

so will be permanent summer time. - whats that then , darker evenings in the winter or lighter evenings in the winter?

Mountainsandh

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

We aren't losing daylight, the brighter mornings are very welcome in my opinion.
Most posters here here seem to want an extra hour of daylight in the evenings at the expense of darker mornings but for what? ...... A December bbq, a picnic, maybe cutting the grass and a bit of gardening, a dip in the sea after work? We don't need an extra hour of daylight in December because by the end of January its bright at 6pm anyway, the dark evenings only last a few weeks before theres a 'grand stretch'.
Anyone who wants it pitch dark at 9am needs their head examined if you ask me.


It isn't a 'system', at our latitude the loss of of daylight is astronomical.

In a rural area with no street lighting, darker evenings mean that I would have to go walk the dog by torchlight. The extra hour brightness might give me a chance to have that quick walk before it gets dark and we're all in for the cosiness after.


Also, for those of us who work in environments that are not very well lit up, the lack of brightness means that we don't really see daylight at all except for the minutes it takes to go from the car to the workplace in the morning.

Not good for mental health imo.
Gets me very down in the dumps anyway, especially on really grey days.

mrmorgan

mrmorgan wrote: »

What value does it bring anyway??

What would you end it on? When they go back or when they go forward??

Well, considering the fact that we're constrained by our geolocation to having very short days in the winter and long days in the summer, it really doesn't matter.


I remember the summertime experiment in the 1960s where the clocks remained on UTC+1 all year round, the dark mornings were very depressing.


Dark evenings are depressing as well, so we can't really win, regardless of how we "tweak" time.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so will be permanent summer time. - whats that then , darker evenings in the winter or lighter evenings in the winter?

Dark for longer in the mornings & later sunset in the evenings.

facehugger99

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember the summertime experiment in the 1960s where the clocks remained on UTC+1 all year round, the dark mornings were very depressing.

It's dark in the mornings anyway, who cares if it's dark an extra hour. Most people are in work by that stage anyway.

An hour of extra brightness in the evenings would be far more beneficial to most people's mental well-being.

Andy From Sligo

if it was experimented/tried before then in the 60's and never worked out , what makes people think it will work out these days?

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's dark in the mornings anyway, who cares if it's dark an extra hour. Most people are in work by that stage anyway.

An hour of extra brightness in the evenings would be far more beneficial to most people's mental well-being.

I hate waking up when it's still dark!
I used to work out in Dublin and driving all the way there in darkness was really depressing.

Andy From Sligo

Mountainsandh wrote: »

... Not good for mental health imo.
Gets me very down in the dumps anyway, especially on really grey days...

have you thought about changing every bulb in your house for Daylight compact fluorescent bulbs and leaving them on all day inside your house in the winter months ? - have heard it helps some people

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

have you thought about changing every bulb in your house for Daylight compact fluorescent bulbs and leaving them on all day inside your house in the winter months ? - have heard it helps some people

There are several LED "daylight" lights available now as well, some even can simulate sunrise & sunset.

Mountainsandh

I have a SAD lamp and I use it, and try and ensure i make use of that precious bit of daylight in the evenings.

Mountainsandh

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if it was experimented/tried before then in the 60's and never worked out , what makes people think it will work out these days?

It's not about "working out" really, it's more about what people prefer.
'Times they are changing, and while people in the 60s might still have included a lot of farmers and outdoor workers who would prefer light in the mornings, today's demographics are probably more indoor bound, and value their personal time after work more.
It would be interesting to get a vote on this nowadays.

Ireland in winter is always gonna be a challenge imo, especially for anyone prone to SAD.

mollser

These bright mornings are fantastic now the clocks have gone back! You can get up and on with things now, cycling walking the dog golf etc.

The balance we have now is fine. So much more important for mental health to be waking up with daylight.

It's for people who get up in the mornings and get on with things. I really don't see how people think the extra hour in the evening is going to make a difference to their lives. It will still be dark at 5.30 in December anyway, not like 8!

Also keeping summer time means the school kids won't be able to get their half hour play outside for about 3 months of the year. That would be so unfair on them.

The morning brightness is crucial. Leave as is.

judeboy101

potential problem arises if you have to wake up before the sun rises. Your melatonin isn't suppressed, and the cortisol hasn't had a chance to rise high enough — both of which make it really hard to wake up. That can lead to grogginess and moodiness for hours. Primary and secondary students would suffer due to low concentration levels. Anyone here with kids esp teenagers know the pain of getting them up for school in dead of winter. At 2nd and 3rd level exams that take place in Dec/jan produce statistically lower results than similar tests in summer

whisky_galore

Just do away with it already, but needs to be EU wide.

I know there will be the usual 'ah shur think of the kids'...most of them aren't even walking to school anymore and playing computer games indoors.

Supercell

mollser wrote: »

These bright mornings are fantastic now the clocks have gone back! You can get up and on with things now, cycling walking the dog golf etc.

The balance we have now is fine. So much more important for mental health to be waking up with daylight.

It's for people who get up in the mornings and get on with things. I really don't see how people think the extra hour in the evening is going to make a difference to their lives. It will still be dark at 5.30 in December anyway, not like 8!

Also keeping summer time means the school kids won't be able to get their half hour play outside for about 3 months of the year. That would be so unfair on them.

The morning brightness is crucial. Leave as is.

Some of have to work in the mornings in offices you know, should we sacrifice our evening brightness for those lucky enough not to have to work so they can go golfing and walking the hounds in the mornings?
My kids run around outside after school with their pals and get play time during school in the mornings just fine??

facehugger99

mollser wrote: »

These bright mornings are fantastic now the clocks have gone back! You can get up and on with things now, cycling walking the dog golf etc.

The balance we have now is fine. So much more important for mental health to be waking up with daylight.

It's for people who get up in the mornings and get on with things. I really don't see how people think the extra hour in the evening is going to make a difference to their lives. It will still be dark at 5.30 in December anyway, not like 8!

Also keeping summer time means the school kids won't be able to get their half hour play outside for about 3 months of the year. That would be so unfair on them.

The morning brightness is crucial. Leave as is.

Sun doesn’t rise until 8.30 once it hits December. Great that you have the luxury of getting up in brightness but it’s not how most people live.

The extra hour of brightness is basicaly wasted when most people are getting ready for work or sitting at their desks.

An extra hour in the evening is a no brainer for most of the working population who pay all the bills in this country. It’d be nice to think their concerns were put first for a change, but this is Ireland so I won’t get my hopes up.

mollser

Supercell wrote: »

Some of have to work in the mornings in offices you know, should we sacrifice our evening brightness for those lucky enough not to have to work so they can go golfing and walking the hounds in the mornings?
My kids run around outside after school with their pals and get play time during school in the mornings just fine??

Yes, I work in an office starting at 8.30am until about 6. Much better to be going in to work in daylight, at least you get to wake up and see a bit of daylight every day. Keeping summer time means nearly all office workers won't get to see any daylight.

mollser

Supercell wrote: »

Some of have to work in the mornings in offices you know, should we sacrifice our evening brightness for those lucky enough not to have to work so they can go golfing and walking the hounds in the mornings?
My kids run around outside after school with their pals and get play time during school in the mornings just fine??

What evening brightness are you sacrificing though? Assuming you leave the office at 5 commute for half hour, then it's half five. It's going to be dark then anyway! This doesn't magically make it bright until 7pm every night you know!

Funny I always thought this push to keep summer time was coming from the layabout contribute nothing gang who have no reason to be up in the morning. I didn't realise it was supported by hard working folk. I find it hard to believe that anyone in farming or construction, for example, think it's a good idea to have darker mornings?

Fr Tod Umptious

mollser wrote: »

What evening brightness are you sacrificing though? Assuming you leave the office at 5 commute for half hour, then it's half five. It's going to be dark then anyway! This doesn't magically make it bright until 7pm every night you know!

Funny I always thought this push to keep summer time was coming from the layabout contribute nothing gang who have no reason to be up in the morning. I didn't realise it was supported by hard working folk. I find it hard to believe that anyone in farming or construction, for example, think it's a good idea to have darker mornings?

I think lot of people don't realise how all year summer time will work out.

The hoped for extra hour in the evenings will not be as beneficial as expected as the weather will be poor anyway and the mornings will absolutely suck as it will not be getting bright till close on 10am as the weather will be poor anyway.

This was an EU wide survey/consultation.
The majority of the EU population live further south than us where the swings in daylight are not as exterm as here or in the Nordic or Baltic states.

It does not effect them as much as us. I'm delighted the government have opened their own consultation on this.

prunudo

facehugger99 wrote: »

An extra hour in the evening is a no brainer for most of the working population who pay all the bills in this country. It’d be nice to think their concerns were put first for a change, but this is Ireland so I won’t get my hopes up.

What about all the construction workers and other people who work outside and rely on daylight, do they not pay bills and deserve the day light too. If it remains on summertime it will be dark until past 9am in both December and January. Thats east coast, be worse west coast.

Oh, i hear you say, sure they can work later in the evenings, well thanks for that, now we won't get home an hour later and not see our families for an hour later or go on walks with the dogs. But its okay the folks in the offices keep the country going.

mollser

jvan wrote: »

What about all the construction workers and other people who work outside and rely on daylight, do they not pay bills and deserve the day light too. If it remains on summertime it will be dark until past 9am in both December and January. Thats east coast, be worse west coast.

Oh, i hear you say, sure they can work later in the evenings, well thanks for that, now we won't get home an hour later and not see our families for an hour later or go on walks with the dogs. But its okay the folks in the offices keep the country going.

Agreed, most office workers should be of the same view as well. Really, the only people who should be against retaining the status quo are layabouts!

P_1

jvan wrote: »

What about all the construction workers and other people who work outside and rely on daylight, do they not pay bills and deserve the day light too. If it remains on summertime it will be dark until past 9am in both December and January. Thats east coast, be worse west coast.

Oh, i hear you say, sure they can work later in the evenings, well thanks for that, now we won't get home an hour later and not see our families for an hour later or go on walks with the dogs. But its okay the folks in the offices keep the country going.

We get 7 and a half hours of daylight in the depths of winter. Doesnt matter which way you cut it you'll have to either start or end in the dark.

I'd rather we had the light time at the end of the day we spend slaving away for capitalism.

In November and February the extra hour of light will be of benefit to many. Given our latitude December and January are a writeoff anyway

Cork Boy 53

SPDUB wrote: »

Postmen as well , and as I know personally from a couple of years back, it is surprisingly difficult to read addresses on post in the dark .

Have you not heard of torches/flashlights? Brilliant invention.

prunudo

P_1 wrote: »

We get 7 and a half hours of daylight in the depths of winter. Doesnt matter which way you cut it you'll have to either start or end in the dark.

I'd rather we had the light time at the end of the day we spend slaving away for capitalism.

In November and February the extra hour of light will be of benefit to many. Given our latitude December and January are a writeoff anyway

I suppose its swings and roundabouts really and will come down to presonal situations, working outside I'd much prefer the extra hour in the morning as it is with the current set up.
A lot easier starting the working day with it getting brighter. By the time you come back after the Christmas holidays there's already a ten minute stretch in the evening's while the mornings haven't noticeably changed at all (actually 2 min later sunrise than the solstice, doesn't start reducing till about 3rd Jan ).

I just urge anybody who wants all year summertime to actually notice how late it stays dark in the mornings this winter, add an hour to the time and see if its really what you want.

Franz Von Peppercorn

mollser wrote: »

Agreed, most office workers should be of the same view as well. Really, the only people who should be against retaining the status quo are layabouts!

Most office workers would prefer light at night. I don’t know what layabouts have to do with it. The options here are no summer time (which means sunsets at 8 pm in May, early June and most of July. 7pm in April and May and late August thus destroying one of the few good things about the Irish summer - long days) or later sunrises in Dec/Jan.

Neither option is great. This is actually why it’s a stupid change and we should keep the time change. Or reduce the winter time to 2-3 months. What is the EU playing at.

facehugger99

I would be ok with Winter time if it was only for a couple of months. It's absolutely crazy that we stick with dark evenings until late March.
5 months of the year!