Removal of Change Reciepts on Dublin Bus Services.

Stephen15 · 23-08-2018 10:34PM

Robert ninja wrote: »

I didn't only say selling, I said storing it insecurely. Read any technology related news? Can't turn your head without a big leak story or companies trading data. If they're storing it you can safely assume that as a profit-based company that they're using it for profit, which includes selling it. My problem is them removing options for you to avoid this. Leap cards are fine since they're optional but I think eventually they won't be and they already charge premium for using cash.

The NTA are not a profit making company they are a government agency. The money is reinvested in providing the service no one makes a profit unless the service is a commercial non PSO service such as DB Airlink, Wexford Bus or Swords Express.

I take it you don't have a passport, driving licence, PS Card, any credit cards, a mobile phone or a computer. Are you afraid that Boards is harvesting your personal information too?

wench · 23-08-2018 10:37PM

Robert ninja wrote: »

Already explained it. Shadow profiles. Eg if you login to another gmail account on your home laptop/whatever then they'll just bind those 2 seperate emails as the same person (unless their AI correctly guesses it's really 2 people). I could post more but not the right thread about it. Point is, I don't appreciate further limiting cash options from DB.

But unless you register the card on their website, there is still no info connecting you.
If you're that paranoid, get a deck of leap cards, and switch randomly between them to throw them off your scent.

Robert ninja · 23-08-2018 10:42PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

The NTA are not a profit making company they are a government agency. The money is reinvested in providing the service no one makes a profit unless the service is a commercial non PSO service such as DB Airlink, Wexford Bus or Swords Express. Do you have a driving licence or a passport they also have numbers on them?

Fair point but it still doesn't make it an ounce less likely to be traded or leaked. Huge leak happened with India and its attitude towards cash. I don't have a specific problem with DB. Overall I use cash whenever possible to reduce profiles.

wench wrote: »

But unless you register the card on their website, there is still no info connecting you.
If you're that paranoid, get a deck of leap cards, and switch randomly between them to throw them off your scent.

Again, these profiles link to others eventually. Just because DB doesn't have info on you others may... let's say... google and their map data for example. If they sell data on user #154595 to google, pretty sure google's AI would assign it to other profiles they're building. It might sound conspiracy theory but that's their business model. I don't think DB are particularly malicious or even wanting any of this (yet), but if you look at any previous leaks or data misuse it's rarely ever intended.

wench wrote: »

get a deck of leap cards

It's not like I'm a journalist, I don't need that. I just reduce unnessecary data on me whenever I can... within reason. Besides they'd just assign all those leap cards to the same profile. I'd probably do that if it was no effort and no cost. But they're actually €5 each last I checked... so unless that's wrong I'm not fancying paying yet ANOTHER premium just to get the same privacy I got from using cash.

wench · 23-08-2018 11:02PM

Robert ninja wrote: »

I'd probably do that if it was no effort and no cost. But they're actually €5 each last I checked... so unless that's wrong I'm not fancying paying yet ANOTHER premium just to get the same privacy I got from using cash.

The cheaper fares would quickly pay back the €5

mfceiling · 23-08-2018 11:05PM

Would anyone be in favour of the change being put back in to DB?

An extra bus bought.
A few new drivers hired.
A few stops being upgraded.

Is it pie in the sky or could it work?

Robert ninja · 23-08-2018 11:06PM

wench wrote: »

The cheaper fares would quickly pay back the €5

Potentially. That's pretty smart. But I'm wagering I don't use DB enough for it to to be worth it.

Stephen15 · 23-08-2018 11:08PM

Robert ninja wrote: »

Potentially. That's pretty smart. But I'm wagering I don't use DB enough for it to to be worth it.

The €5 Is just a deposit it can be gotten back

Robert ninja · 23-08-2018 11:13PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

The €5 Is just a deposit it can be gotten back

Thanks for the info. But as I said, I still have tons of other problems with it, it doesn't actually solve the unnecessary data gathering issue and I still don't use DB enough to be worth it for me... as in if I bought 4 cards for €20, I'd only ever get through 2 of them in a year I'm guessing. If I had to use DB like I used to (when there was no cards) I'd probably investigate a little more in how they actually process the leap card data and see if there's any real way to be as private as cash.

Qrt · 24-08-2018 10:58AM

Robert ninja wrote: »

Thanks for the info. But as I said, I still have tons of other problems with it, it doesn't actually solve the unnecessary data gathering issue and I still don't use DB enough to be worth it for me... as in if I bought 4 cards for €20, I'd only ever get through 2 of them in a year I'm guessing. If I had to use DB like I used to (when there was no cards) I'd probably investigate a little more in how they actually process the leap card data and see if there's any real way to be as private as cash.

Do you wear gloves while paying with cash?

Robert ninja · 24-08-2018 11:44AM

Qrt wrote: »

Do you wear gloves while paying with cash?

reducing your digital footprint seems to be considered tin foil hat around here and worthy of constant mockery. Data leak and AI stories don't make front page I suppose.

Stephen15 · 24-08-2018 11:52AM

Robert ninja wrote: »

reducing your digital footprint seems to be considered tin foil hat around here and worthy of constant mockery. Data leak and AI stories don't make front page I suppose.

If your so worried why are you on boards.ie or the internet in general for that matter?

Qrt · 24-08-2018 12:04PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

If your so worried why are you on boards.ie or the internet in general for that matter?

I heard they track electricity usage too, apparently there are "meters" hidden in every house, and they can track spikes in usage, like how many times you put the kettle on a day, and sell it on to the tea companies for a profit.

Robert ninja · 24-08-2018 12:15PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

If your so worried why are you on boards.ie or the internet in general for that matter?

I'm not worried. Reducing unnecessary, involuntary data is not the same as unavoidable or voluntary. I could explain more but it's gotten off topic enough as it is and people already understand it but are just thinking I'm expecting to be off grid or something. I just like the privacy cash can provide and DB have a negative posture to it.

daheff · 24-08-2018 01:22PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Would anyone be in favour of the change being put back in to DB?

An extra bus bought.
A few new drivers hired.
A few stops being upgraded.

Is it pie in the sky or could it work?

Already happens. Only some of the unclaimed cash is given to charity. Guess where the rest goes

daheff · 24-08-2018 01:23PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Well duh.....

I know that but why was my post taken out to highlight this when I stated that fact already.....

Same reason you quoted me when I highlighted it....

BonnieSituation · 24-08-2018 02:05PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

So it's really like they're openly robbing you. Imagine going into the newsagent and buying a paper (who does that now) - you offer up your €10 note for the €2 paper and the cashier says Grand, thanks - now piss off!

You're as free not to get the bus.

The same as you are free to not go to a newsagent that charges you 10euro for your 2euro paper.

BonnieSituation · 24-08-2018 02:09PM

ED E wrote: »

When was this / do we have a voxpop of it?

It was linked earlier in the thread. Was an article on the Indo. Mannix Flynn wasquotedas well. You should be able to find it handy.

---

Anyway, this thread has taken a AH/CT turn. So I'm, as the Canadians say, oot!

punisher5112 · 24-08-2018 03:01PM

daheff wrote: »

Same reason you quoted me when I highlighted it....

Was that not after an answer or whatever to your post it wasn't aimed at you.

I do forget sometimes to do a different post...

Sorry bout that

AlekSmart · 25-08-2018 12:04AM

Robert ninja wrote: »

I'm not worried. Reducing unnecessary, involuntary data is not the same as unavoidable or voluntary. I could explain more but it's gotten off topic enough as it is and people already understand it but are just thinking I'm expecting to be off grid or something. I just like the privacy cash can provide and DB have a negative posture to it.

Is Dublin Buses "negative posture" on your privacy,any different from Bord Gais,Electric Ireland,Virgin Media or any of the vast numbers of businesses who do their utmost to avoid handling cash ?

Indeed,even the retail Banking sector itself is now virtually unrecognisable when compared to the Bank of my youth...lets know how you get on when you attempt to do a cash transaction at your local branch.

By far and away the most significant contributor to Dublin Bus Stop dwell time,continues to be the lunatic fringe requirement to have a Ticketing system which constantly defaults back to cash when almost 80% of Passengers are using Leapcard.

Dublin Bus,left to it's own devices,would be posturing totally positively for you,if it were'nt for the good sense of the NTA,who have decided to take the next step towards full cashless operation,and it can't come quickly enough !!

punisher5112 · 25-08-2018 01:05AM

I can't wait till the 9th..... Roll on please don't have a go though as it will be pointless I honestly couldn't give a rats a#s.....

Had a numpty today get on mentioned something of a leap card just standing there blocking anyone else getting on, she then fumbles around her oversized big lady bag, then eventually finds change and fires it into the slot.....

Grand I hits the button and issue her change also, she storms off muttering to herself but in her haste obviously didn't take her ticket but I don't know for definite but I do know the machine spat it out.

Roll on her stop, where is my change this is disgraceful.... Now why she thought it would be best to do as she was getting off oh hell because she could get her little ranty attack on me and have no fear of not being carried.

She stated I had a shocking bad attitude and I would be hearing about it and she is reporting me.

I stated no issue at all but for her to keep her ticket and copy of it in complaint as it will show on record I printed her €0.15 refund.

There was a guy sitting on a wall outside just looks at me we both nod and he is laughing as is I....

Hilarious what morons are actually out there.

Technocentral · 26-08-2018 12:33PM

No excuse not to have a leap card, only reason to pay cash is if you temporarily lose card.

charlietheminxx · 27-08-2018 01:47PM

Technocentral wrote: »

No excuse not to have a leap card, only reason to pay cash is if you temporarily lose card.

Maybe there would be less need for cash if you could top up leap cards online. I’ve gotten caught out a few times having emptied my card by using a nitelink at the weekend etc.

ohnonotgmail · 27-08-2018 01:55PM

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Maybe there would be less need for cash if you could top up leap cards online. I’ve gotten caught out a few times having emptied my card by using a nitelink at the weekend etc.

if you have a phone with NFC you can top up online and collect the topup using the app.

Dravokivich · 27-08-2018 02:11PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if you have a phone with NFC you can top up online and collect the topup using the app.

You're better off just using the phone to purchase credit, if it has NFC. Topping up online doesn't mean it'll be there immediately on the phone for you to collect. You can still be waiting until the next day.

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Maybe there would be less need for cash if you could top up leap cards online. I’ve gotten caught out a few times having emptied my card by using a nitelink at the weekend etc.

You'll never be able to do that. It's essentially a memory card. It receives and holds a short amount of information. The validators update that information when in use.

ohnonotgmail · 27-08-2018 02:13PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

You're better off just using the phone to purchase credit, if it has NFC. Topping up online doesn't mean it'll be there immediately on the phone for you to collect. You can still be waiting until the next day.

True enough.

Muahahaha · 27-08-2018 03:32PM

Anyone know if there is a cut off date after which DB will not accept refund tickets at head office?

punisher5112 · 27-08-2018 05:52PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know if there is a cut off date after which DB will not accept refund tickets at head office?

No mention of this but I'm sure it will end some time in the future.

GA will save a lot by not giving this option as they won't have to have a premises to give the change back or staff to do so.

Stephen15 · 27-08-2018 06:05PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

GA will save a lot by not giving this option as they won't have to have a premises to give the change back or staff to do so.

It won't be saving GA any money as they are being paid a fixed fee by the NTA with all fare revenue going back to the NTA. If it's saving anyone money it's DB and the NTA.

Technocentral · 29-08-2018 10:49AM

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

No excuse not to have a leap card, only reason to pay cash is if you temporarily lose card.

Maybe there would be less need for cash if you could top up leap cards online. I’ve gotten caught out a few times having emptied my card by using a nitelink at the weekend etc.

App on any half decent phone means you can top up in 5 seconds.

punisher5112 · 29-08-2018 03:39PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

It won't be saving GA any money as they are being paid a fixed fee by the NTA with all fare revenue going back to the NTA. If it's saving anyone money it's DB and the NTA.

It will though as they won't have to supply a building where people can come in to collect their change.

Removal of Change Reciepts on Dublin Bus Services.

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