Solar PV Grant now Available - SEAI

Gumbo · 31-07-2018 11:46am #1

Just seen it now over on Facebook.

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-grants/solar-pv/

Dardania · 31-07-2018 11:56am

kceire wrote: »

Just seen it now over on Facebook.

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-grants/solar-pv/

Nice one. I recognise one of the names on the list of registered contractors so must give them a call next year maybe.
A FIT would really kick this off ;-)

unkel · 31-07-2018 5:02pm

Dardania wrote: »

Nice one. I recognise one of the names on the list of registered contractors so must give them a call next year maybe.
A FIT would really kick this off ;-)

FIT and no subsidy would have kicked things off a lot more than this. A shame.

goldfish · 31-07-2018 5:10pm

A FIT is never going to happen. Hardware prices have dropped dramatically over the last number of years. The real issue is install costs. I've heard "we can't drop install prices because the volume just isn't there". Let's see what happens now.
A 2 kW system (6-7 panels) will generate a grant of c. Euro 1,400.
In theory an installed system should be 3k incl vat . After the grant is deducted you're talking c. 1,600 - PV is no longer a "considered purchase" and you're into single digit payback period.

goldfish · 31-07-2018 5:14pm

One condition of scheme that I do note is that you have to get a BER post installation to get the grant....hmmm sneaky terms and conditions!

Griffinx · 31-07-2018 5:41pm

They said it would be backdated to when the announcement was made earlier this year. I went ahead and installed and now they say the grant is only available for installations after 31/7 FFS

orangerhyme · 31-07-2018 5:50pm

Registered User
Why are houses built since 2011 excluded from this scheme?

Also Minister Naughten mentioned that an EU directive on feed in tariffs is imminent, does anyone know anything more about this?

ted1 · 31-07-2018 6:39pm

orangerhyme wrote: »

Registered User
Why are houses built since 2011 excluded from this scheme?

Also Minister Naughten mentioned that an EU directive on feed in tariffs is imminent, does anyone know anything more about this?

When did part L of the building code start ? Houses built since then should have them.

ted1 · 31-07-2018 6:40pm

Don’t like the battery element, it just odds cost. Net metering would be much more effective and doesn’t rely on a FIT

Gumbo · 31-07-2018 7:46pm

goldfish wrote: »

One condition of scheme that I do note is that you have to get a BER post installation to get the grant....hmmm sneaky terms and conditions!

That’s standard with all SEAI grants.

Gumbo · 31-07-2018 7:47pm

orangerhyme wrote: »

Registered User
Why are houses built since 2011 excluded from this scheme?

Also Minister Naughten mentioned that an EU directive on feed in tariffs is imminent, does anyone know anything more about this?

Renewable elements were mandatory from 2011 Part L so it may be deemed that they are not required at this time. The dates always change, it’s to bring older housing stock into a better efficiency rating and lower CO2 emissions.

Gumbo · 31-07-2018 7:48pm

ted1 wrote: »

Don’t like the battery element, it just odds cost. Net metering would be much more effective and doesn’t rely on a FIT

Net metering would be great alright.

quentingargan · 31-07-2018 7:49pm

I always thought a feed in tariff would be preferable to a grant and encourages conservation. But subsidising battery storage isn't a bad second choice.

Batteries are down to about €900 plus VAT for 2+kwhrs. So if you are putting in a PV system a small battery will give you off-grid functionality during power cuts and allow your first early evening power consumption to be FOC. The hybrid inverter to do all this would only add a small amount to the system cost. When we get smart meters, early evening power consumption will be the expensive bit.

But I wonder why they didn't make the battery a price per KwHr. As things stand, you can opt for a single 2kwhr battery and claim the grant. There is no extra funding to pay for a bigger battery.

Tefral · 31-07-2018 7:52pm

I'm at the stage where I'm fitting out my house. It's getting a heat pump. I think it might be worth my while getting the main board made up to accept the PVs now in the hope of them becoming available to all down the line.

Be some job if I could offset some of my heating costs with this. Saying that I work for an electrical contractor and we put a meter on some panels we had to install for a commercial client and the power they were generating on a cloudy day was abysmal.

Gumbo · 31-07-2018 8:26pm

Tefral wrote: »

I'm at the stage where I'm fitting out my house. It's getting a heat pump. I think it might be worth my while getting the main board made up to accept the PVs now in the hope of them becoming available to all down the line.

Be some job if I could offset some of my heating costs with this. Saying that I work for an electrical contractor and we put a meter on some panels we had to install for a commercial client and the power they were generating on a cloudy day was abysmal.

Put the relevant RCBO on the board. Run a 10mm sq cable from it to the termination point in the attic space roughly where the panels will go in the future. Sorted.

6mm Sq may be ok actually.

jt_dublin · 02-08-2018 2:36pm

Guys, posted this in another thread but just repeating it here as well.

Not sure if the Home Renovation Incentive scheme has been mentioned before. If not... You can claim the VAT element back on works of €5000 and above, once the work is carried out by a "tax compliant contractor". So if you are a taxpayer, you can get 13.5% back over 2 years on your income tax. At the moment this scheme is only open until the end of 2018 but maybe it will be extended.

Has anyone availed of this?

Water John · 02-08-2018 2:41pm

Using it for kitchen renovation not PV.

Gumbo · 02-08-2018 4:46pm

jt_dublin wrote: »

Guys, posted this in another thread but just repeating it here as well.

Not sure if the Home Renovation Incentive scheme has been mentioned before. If not... You can claim the VAT element back on works of €5000 and above, once the work is carried out by a "tax compliant contractor". So if you are a taxpayer, you can get 13.5% back over 2 years on your income tax. At the moment this scheme is only open until the end of 2018 but maybe it will be extended.

Has anyone availed of this?

No use as you have to reduce by a certain amount to allow for the grant you are getting.

niallers1 · 02-08-2018 7:49pm

kceire wrote: »

No use as you have to reduce by a certain amount to allow for the grant you are getting.

Are you 100% sure about that ?

Gumbo · 02-08-2018 7:50pm

niallers1 wrote: »

Are you 100% sure about that ?

From revenue :

How much is the HRI tax credit?
The amount of HRI credit depends on:

the amount you spend on qualifying works
any grant, insurance or compensation claim you may receive during the allowed period of the incentive.
If there is no grant, insurance or compensation claim, the lowest tax credit amount for a property is €595 (€4,405 x 13.5%). The highest tax credit amount is €4,050 (€30,000 x 13.5%).

Grant payment

If you receive a grant for qualifying work then the total qualifying expenditure will be reduced by three times the grant amount. For example an insulation grant from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI).

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/home-renovation-incentive/hri-for-homeowners-and-landlords/value-of-the-hri-tax-credit.aspx

Ginger83 · 02-08-2018 8:06pm

quentingargan wrote: »

I always thought a feed in tariff would be preferable to a grant and encourages conservation. But subsidising battery storage isn't a bad second choice.

Batteries are down to about €900 plus VAT for 2+kwhrs. So if you are putting in a PV system a small battery will give you off-grid functionality during power cuts and allow your first early evening power consumption to be FOC. The hybrid inverter to do all this would only add a small amount to the system cost. When we get smart meters, early evening power consumption will be the expensive bit.

But I wonder why they didn't make the battery a price per KwHr. As things stand, you can opt for a single 2kwhr battery and claim the grant. There is no extra funding to pay for a bigger battery.

Does that mean you could put a 4/5kw system in with just a 2kwhr battery to avail of the battery grant?

unkel · 02-08-2018 8:36pm

Yes. There's no mention of a minimum battery size

Ginger83 · 02-08-2018 8:44pm

unkel wrote: »

Yes. There's no mention of a minimum battery size

Thats actually quite good. Could a 2nd battery be added later?

niallers1 · 02-08-2018 8:57pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

Thats actually quite good. Could a 2nd battery be added later?

yes . Master battery and follow on slave batteries.

rolion · 02-08-2018 10:49pm

I found H E R E these storage units...most of them works at 48V only.
So,retrofitting an existing PV system will make things very very hard !
For a new system,it could be that the inverter is hybrid or ... is compatible somehow with 48V from PVs than UPit to 220v after inverter !?

Not so good news for the pioneers...

niallers1 · 02-08-2018 10:52pm

Hi Rolion, Are you saying newer batteries are 48v?

unkel · 02-08-2018 10:52pm

rolion wrote: »

So,retrofitting an existing PV system will make things very very hard !

Not really. But you'd have to replace your inverter with a hybrid inverter. Easy job, but those inverters are expensive.

You could go AC battery too...

I just spotted on the ESAI website that the scheme doesn't start until October BTW

iamtony · 02-08-2018 10:59pm

Very interested in solar panels.
Can anyone with experience in this field tell me what a suitable system would cost me.
Just checked my electric bill and I've used 7500 Kwhs in the past 12 months. I have a combi boiler and no tank for hot water so batteries would be the way to go for me.
How much could I offset the bill which is at 115 euro a month with the big switch discount from Bord gais.
I'd like to half my bill would that be possible?

iamtony · 02-08-2018 11:01pm

unkel wrote: »

Not really. But you'd have to replace your inverter with a hybrid inverter. Easy job, but those inverters are expensive.

You could go AC battery too...

I just spotted on the ESAI website that the scheme doesn't start until October BTW

they mentioned they will backdate to announcement date which was last day of July.

rolion · 02-08-2018 11:02pm

niallers1 wrote: »

Hi Rolion, Are you saying newer batteries are 48v?

Dunno yet...looks like the smart & managed systems are mostly in 48V so they are connected PV panel in parallel (not series as most of ours today) and then going to inverter and they will need to talk via a cable ? Thats why most of them neeeds a designated / build for type standards inverter.
Me,can't find any storage systems that works with a ABB type inverter.

Found some LG,Samsung and Powerwall that are AC linked but not sure and too happy to leave it there...i prefer before the inverter where it will take a direct charge DC current...

Still doing my home work here...i know how to get an hybrid system but only a grant type battery storage,still researching... More study HERE to avoid confussion.

unkel wrote: »

Not really. But you'd have to replace your inverter with a hybrid inverter. Easy job, but those inverters are expensive.

You could go AC battery too...

I just spotted on the ESAI website that the scheme doesn't start until October BTW

For existing systems, it will be out of reach financially.. today.

Water John · 02-08-2018 11:03pm

Check this out, as a start;
https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/FAQs_on_Solar_PV.pdf

niallers1 · 02-08-2018 11:05pm

@Iamtony

i use about 3000kwh per year. I reduced to 3000 kwh by changing all my lights to LCD. Also have LCD TV and "A" rated appliances.

if you have children, teach them to turn off the lights when they leave a room and do not leave appliances on standby, switch off at plug or if there is no switch plug the appliance out. Standby can use uo to 25% of the fully on electricity.

would be interested to know if you've done any of this already?

unkel · 02-08-2018 11:33pm

rolion wrote: »

For existing systems, it will be out of reach financially.. today.

What makes you say that?

2.4kWh battery €1k, 4kW hybrid inverter €1.2k, labour, maybe €200?

That's €2.4k plus VAT minus €1k grant

And your system is future proofed to add more PV and more battery at some stage...

unkel · 02-08-2018 11:37pm

niallers1 wrote: »

if you have children, teach them to turn off the lights when they leave a room and do not leave appliances on standby, switch off at plug or if there is no switch plug the appliance out. Standby can use uo to 25% of the fully on electricity.

Most modern appliances use only a fraction of a watt when standby (test all your appliances with a €10 power meter from Lidl or Amazon, some older equipment like the UPC horizon box are notoriously bad) and lights use very little energy these days. Forgetting to switch off a typical 7W LED bulb and leaving it on by accident for 10 hours during the night costs less than half a cent. It's barely worth the effort of switching any light off, ever

niallers1 · 02-08-2018 11:43pm

But some people are still using 100w bulbs:) and have CRT TV's

unkel · 02-08-2018 11:52pm

Those people will never learn. No point to try and teach them. They're even worse than ones wife and children

iamtony · 02-08-2018 11:54pm

niallers1 wrote: »

@Iamtony

i use about 3000kwh per year. I reduced to 3000 kwh by changing all my lights to LCD. Also have LCD TV and "A" rated appliances.

if you have children, teach them to turn off the lights when they leave a room and do not leave appliances on standby, switch off at plug or if there is no switch plug the appliance out. Standby can use uo to 25% of the fully on electricity.

would be interested to know if you've done any of this already?

All our light are smart bulbs and led. I suspect my high usage items include my missus and the 14 year old having half hours showers most days. Last year the usage was 6500kwh but the 14 year old discovered girls and showers almost every day and spends ages despite my nagging.
I also have a pond and 2 fish tanks which don't help. I also grow some stuff hydroponically under led grow lights which doesn't help
. I'd love to switch to using the combi boiler for the shower but it involves ripping up the tiles which I don't want to do.

One big change we have done this year is switched to drying most things on the line where previously it was all done in the drier(heat pump drier mind you) . Hopefully this helps. In the future bills.

rolion · 02-08-2018 11:54pm

unkel wrote: »

What makes you say that?

2.4kWh battery €1k, 4kW hybrid inverter €1.2k, labour, maybe €200?

That's €2.4k plus VAT minus €1k grant

And your system is future proofed to add more PV and more battery at some stage...

Thanks for crunching the numbers but ...
Links for the specs above,please !?

And €200 labour !? I've been quoted €1,500 ex to fit 7 PV panels on the roof with all my inclusive.
Wait until "Paddy" hears about the grant...all PV related prices will go high by the exact value of the grant.
And the "beauty" of the grant is that excludes from beginning any DIY intentions...even adding an extra battery in the future will need to be done by authorised installer to avoid warranty violations.Thereofre,voiding any savings zero from minute one...

On another planet,i could have assumed that this grant is the Trojan Horse for the local PV industry ... kind of fcuked the current / existing installations while encouring and promoting future installations only from approved installers with well known financial intentions and lacking skills for optimal battery storage designing,instalation,supporting !

Have fun !!!

niallers1 · 02-08-2018 11:57pm

We no longer use electric shower, we use shower heated by gas . it seems to be cheaper.

unkel · 02-08-2018 11:57pm

iamtony wrote: »

I suspect my high usage items include my missus and the 14 year old having half hours showers most days.

Electric showers are a killer. If you don't want to go combi boiler, then at least heat your hot water with your conventional gas or oil boiler, not with electricity. Or if you really use a huge amount of hot water, go solar thermal. I do (family of 5 with 4 females who love their long hot showers and baths)

iamtony · 03-08-2018 12:01am

unkel wrote: »

Electric showers are a killer. If you don't want to go combi boiler, then at least heat your hot water with your conventional gas or oil boiler, not with electricity. Or if you really use a huge amount of hot water, go solar thermal. I do (family of 5 with 4 females who love their long hot showers and baths)

That's the thing, I have a combi boiler for hot water but the bathroom was done up just before I got it and to replace the electric 8kw shower I would of having to rip up the new bathroom to run the pipes for hot and cold.

unkel · 03-08-2018 12:05am

rolion wrote: »

Thanks for crunching the numbers but ...
Links for the specs above,please !?

And €200 labour !? I've been quoted €1,500 ex to fit 7 PV panels on the roof with all my inclusive.

Labour just for replacing your existing inverter and adding the battery to the system. I'm making this figure up, I don't really know what's involved, but surely it can't be more than that? Installing panels on roofs is a completely different ballgame labour wise. It is very expensive. That's probably why yourself and myself have done it ourselves

Have no links for specs, DYOG (do your own Google

) but those hardware price figures come directly to me from a reliable supplier who is also a regular very knowledgeable poster on this forum. I believe I am not allowed to mention names.

Pylontech 2.4kWh battery €950, Solis 5kW hybrid inverter €1299 both plus VAT

rolion · 03-08-2018 1:51am

unkel wrote: »

Labour just for replacing your existing inverter and adding the battery to the system. I'm making this figure up, I don't really know what's involved, but surely it can't be more than that? Installing panels on roofs is a completely different ballgame labour wise. It is very expensive. That's probably why yourself and myself have done it ourselves

Have no links for specs, DYOG (do your own Google ) but those hardware price figures come directly to me from a reliable supplier who is also a regular very knowledgeable poster on this forum. I believe I am not allowed to mention names.

Pylontech 2.4kWh battery €950, Solis 5kW hybrid inverter €1299 both plus VAT

OK...dont want to sound too against the grant sorry, just making the realistic and practical figures here for existing installation ONLY ... but has the quote included for recabling / rewiring of the whole current existing system (PV to inverter to battery ) !?

unkel · 03-08-2018 2:06am

Not sure what you mean there, rolion. If I understand it right, you have an existing PV setup with a solar grid tie inverter that is not suitable for DC battery attachment. The only thing you need is for one of the SEAI approved installers to replace your current inverter with a hybrid one and attach a battery. You will receive a €1000 subsidy for this job

No need for any recabling / rewiring...

Gumbo · 03-08-2018 7:46am

rolion wrote: »

OK...dont want to sound too against the grant sorry, just making the realistic and practical figures here for existing installation ONLY ... but has the quote included for recabling / rewiring of the whole current existing system (PV to inverter to battery ) !?

Invertor and battery should be side by side.
My invertor is in the attic space. If I upgrade to battery now, it will go in the same space.

unkel · 03-08-2018 9:13am

Did you find out if your inverter is a hybrid, kceire? I guess it isn't. What you paid for your install was way too cheap anyway!

Gumbo · 03-08-2018 9:56am

unkel wrote: »

Did you find out if your inverter is a hybrid, kceire? I guess it isn't. What you paid for your install was way too cheap anyway!

Just talking to them this morning.
My invertor cannot be used with the current crop of batteries, but it can in a few weeks. I don't know what tech or what changes but seemly he will know in a few weeks if I have to change or not

On the other hand, I have some ball park prices if anybody wants to hear them...……………..

rolion · 03-08-2018 10:03am

I think the grant hugely promotes self consumption in relation to battery grant extension .. .rather than creating troubles with FIT payments between producers/exporters and the companies that are at the end of the receiving some surplus energy when they dont need it.

However,in this format it creates an advantage only for the new installs.

For the current already installed systems,as the batteryes needs 48V input AND our systems are designed and installed on "series link" to get the starting point voltage for the inverter...i don't see myself going back to all the panels and change the cabling to support a higher amperage and redesign series to parallel.

Also,some airlines don't supports the idea of having the bateries in the plane...i will not accept a battery pack installed in the house...maybe at the side, wallrack mounted... wanna sleep well !?

But,lets wait for a specialised acredited installer here and give us some FoC advices !?

TGIF

Standard Toaster · 03-08-2018 10:07am

kceire wrote: »

On the other hand, I have some ball park prices if anybody wants to hear them...……………..

+1

unkel · 03-08-2018 10:10am

kceire wrote: »

On the other hand, I have some ball park prices if anybody wants to hear them...……………..

We all do!

Water John · 03-08-2018 10:13am

Yeah Kceire, very interested in putting a system together. Would also be looking at a second EV which would often be home during the day.
If doing it I would probably go a decent size 20sqm, knowing it needs planning.
Would solidly look at outside the grant. Get good kit and have my RECI friend install.

Solar PV Grant now Available - SEAI

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