Dublin Bus Changes to Improve City Center Journeys

Qrt · 25-07-2018 6:48pm

psinno wrote: »

Alternatively everything shifts to out of town shopping centers and business parks.

This line always gets pulled out anytime a tiny restrictions on cars is suggested. I don't know anybody who drives into town to do their shopping. Nobody I know does it. Why? Because it's frustrating and expensive, and it needs to be more frustrating for the city centre to be able to thrive. Cars should not rule the streets between the canals.

john boye · 25-07-2018 6:54pm

Saw a transit van/minibus flying up the Luas track lane in College St this evening. Astonishing, first time I've seen that.

MJohnston · 25-07-2018 9:16pm

john boye wrote: »

Saw a transit van/minibus flying up the Luas track lane in College St this evening. Astonishing, first time I've seen that.

The Garda spend all their money on Armed Response Units these days, and nothing else. Visible policing is dead, and it's massive problem.

fritzelly · 25-07-2018 9:21pm

john boye wrote: »

Saw a transit van/minibus flying up the Luas track lane in College St this evening. Astonishing, first time I've seen that.

Seen it before - was a maintenance van of kinds so wasnt sure if it was a Luas van

john boye · 25-07-2018 9:47pm

This wasn't a Luas van, it was a silver minibus with no branding. He then muscled his way into the traffic outside Trinity and continued on to Grafton St lower.

Stephen15 · 25-07-2018 9:59pm

john boye wrote: »

This wasn't a Luas van, it was a silver minibus with no branding. He then muscled his way into the traffic outside Trinity and continued on to Grafton St lower.

Perhaps it was impersonating a Luas if it was silver

john boye · 25-07-2018 11:00pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Perhaps it was impersonating a Luas if it was silver

Hadn't thought of that, maybe it was a rush hour extra!

Ernest · 26-07-2018 8:59am

Qrt wrote: »

This line always gets pulled out anytime a tiny restrictions on cars is suggested. I don't know anybody who drives into town to do their shopping. Nobody I know does it. Why? Because it's frustrating and expensive, and it needs to be more frustrating for the city centre to be able to thrive. Cars should not rule the streets between the canals.

Not sure what you mean by "doing their shopping" but I don't know any city centre where retailing is not a major or the main reason for visiting: London, Paris, Madrid, Berlin... Personally I know lots of people who drive into the city centre to go to shops, cafes, restaurants galleries, etc.

Nobody is suggesting that cars should "rule the streets between the canals" but your dogmatic wish drive out all cars by making it "more frustrating" for motorists in order, as you imagine it, "for the city centre to be able to thrive" is misguided. The European cities I mention above all have excellent public transport provision (unlike Dublin) but many people still prefer to come into the city centre by car for a range of reasons.

Qrt · 26-07-2018 9:02am

Ernest wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by "doing their shopping" but I don't know any city centre where retailing is not a major or the main reason for visiting: London, Paris, Madrid, Berlin... Personally I know lots of people who drive into the city centre to go to shops, cafes, restaurants galleries, etc.

Nobody is suggesting that cars should "rule the streets between the canals" but your dogmatic wish drive out all cars by making it "more frustrating" for motorists in order, as you imagine it, "for the city centre to be able to thrive" is misguided. The European cities I mention above all have excellent public transport provision (unlike Dublin) but many people still prefer to come into the city centre by car for a range of reasons.

The vast majority of Dublin has a pretty good bus service. A lot of the reason people drive into town is down to plain snobbery.

Zebra3 · 26-07-2018 10:39am

Ernest wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by "doing their shopping" but I don't know any city centre where retailing is not a major or the main reason for visiting: London, Paris, Madrid, Berlin... Personally I know lots of people who drive into the city centre to go to shops, cafes, restaurants galleries, etc.

Nobody is suggesting that cars should "rule the streets between the canals" but your dogmatic wish drive out all cars by making it "more frustrating" for motorists in order, as you imagine it, "for the city centre to be able to thrive" is misguided. The European cities I mention above all have excellent public transport provision (unlike Dublin) but many people still prefer to come into the city centre by car for a range of reasons.

Cars cause air pollution.

Cars cause noise pollution.

Cars can badly injure/kill people.

Cars make city centers unpleasant for pedestrians and cyclists who don’t cause pollution.

Cars are an inefficient way of transporting people.

By and large restricting cars access to city centers is a great thing.

Carlos Orange · 26-07-2018 10:41am

Qrt wrote: »

This line always gets pulled out anytime a tiny restrictions on cars is suggested. I don't know anybody who drives into town to do their shopping. Nobody I know does it. Why? Because it's frustrating and expensive, and it needs to be more frustrating for the city centre to be able to thrive. Cars should not rule the streets between the canals.

I'm not sure making it "infeasible to make a journey by car" really counts as "tiny restrictions on cars".

I don't really buy into the ideological idea that restrictions on cars have only one possible outcome which is the one people dogmatically are pursuing.

howiya · 26-07-2018 10:52am

Qrt wrote: »

The vast majority of Dublin has a pretty good bus service. A lot of the reason people drive into town is down to plain snobbery.

Give me the same bus service I have Monday to Friday over the weekend and then I won't drive into town on weekends.

MJohnston · 26-07-2018 10:55am

Ernest wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by "doing their shopping" but I don't know any city centre where retailing is not a major or the main reason for visiting: London, Paris, Madrid, Berlin... Personally I know lots of people who drive into the city centre to go to shops, cafes, restaurants galleries, etc.

Nobody is suggesting that cars should "rule the streets between the canals" but your dogmatic wish drive out all cars by making it "more frustrating" for motorists in order, as you imagine it, "for the city centre to be able to thrive" is misguided. The European cities I mention above all have excellent public transport provision (unlike Dublin) but many people still prefer to come into the city centre by car for a range of reasons.

London - congestion charge for vast areas of the city centre:

Paris - attempting to create large areas of car free zones.

Madrid - complete car ban in city centre:

Berlin - banning cars from a major city centre street

If you're holding these cities up as exemplars, then there's no reason Dublin shouldn't have a ban on cars on the Quays.

MOH · 26-07-2018 11:01am

Qrt wrote: »

The vast majority of Dublin has a pretty good bus service. A lot of the reason people drive into town is down to plain snobbery.

The vast majority of Dublin has a very unreliable bus service.

I hate driving. Absolutely loathe it. Put off learning to drive for years, and still only do it when I absolutely have to. Always used to maintain that if you're living in a modern city with modern public transport , you don't need to drive. Eventually gave up on that notion, because we don't have anything remotely near that. With the public transport we have in this city, and the organisations that run it, banning cars from the city centre is a non-runner.

dashcamdanny · 26-07-2018 11:10am

MOH wrote: »

The vast majority of Dublin has a very unreliable bus service.

I hate driving. Absolutely loathe it. Put off learning to drive for years, and still only do it when I absolutely have to. Always used to maintain that if you're living in a modern city with modern public transport , you don't need to drive. Eventually gave up on that notion, because we don't have anything remotely near that. With the public transport we have in this city, and the organisations that run it, banning cars from the city centre is a non-runner.

Really? Vast covers a lot of ground.

Maybe you can pinpoint the very unreliable bus.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Q2_2017_Dublin_Bus_Performance_Report.pdf

cgcsb · 26-07-2018 2:08pm

Ernest wrote: »

The European cities I mention above all have excellent public transport provision (unlike Dublin) but many people still prefer to come into the city centre by car for a range of reasons.

That's coming to an abrupt end. More and more of Europe is tackling car usage in the Cities. There'll be heavy restrictions on diesel in the coming months and years across Europe and there'll be a number of entirely car free cities by the middle of the century. Lots of cities are having car free days right now and that number is only expanding.

Ernest · 27-07-2018 10:53am

Qrt wrote: »

The vast majority of Dublin has a pretty good bus service. A lot of the reason people drive into town is down to plain snobbery.

Don't be absurd! Cars are more comfortable and take you where exactly you want to go, when you want to go and enables you to carry things easily. Its nothing to do with snobbery! It's to do with comfort and convenience.

As to the "pretty good bus service", Dublin has only a bus service - except for a few lucky areas of the city which have the DART or these trams that crawl along blocking the streets. Cities with good transport systems have underground or elevated electric trains covering most of these cities. Nobody would really choose to use those noisy, unventilated, uncomfortable buses, given a better alternative such as cars or a metro system.

Ben D Bus · 29-07-2018 10:27pm

Ernest wrote: »

Nobody would really choose to use those noisy, unventilated, uncomfortable buses

I find the Dublin Bus fleet to be largely quiet, well ventilated and comfortable. When were you last on one?

Bray Head · 30-07-2018 9:53am

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Really? Vast covers a lot of ground.

Maybe you can pinpoint the very unreliable bus.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Q2_2017_Dublin_Bus_Performance_Report.pdf

On my local route one in every 21 scheduled services doesn't operate.

That's two missing buses per month for a daily commuter.
Another two buses per month depart more than five minutes after their scheduled time.

I wouldn't call that a reliable service.

CatInABox · 30-07-2018 10:04am

Ernest wrote: »

Don't be absurd! Cars are more comfortable and take you where exactly you want to go, when you want to go and enables you to carry things easily. Its nothing to do with snobbery! It's to do with comfort and convenience.

In the city centre though, cars don't bring you to exactly where you want to go, they bring you to whatever parking spot you can find, whether that's on-street or in a parking lot. It's pretty rare that you'll get a parking spot right next to wherever you want to go, unless you're just planning on going to a shopping centre.

Ernest · 30-07-2018 10:17am

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I find the Dublin Bus fleet to be largely quiet, well ventilated and comfortable. When were you last on one?

I use buses frequently as the nearest bus stop to my house is closer than the nearest DART station. Off-peak they may be quieter but never as comfortable as the DART, as they sway uncomfortably when they swing into stops and swing back out into traffic, and vibrate and shudder due to diesel engines.
As for peak travel....buses are stuffy as windows are never open especially in winter when they fog-up making identification of location difficult - not to mention spreading germs from people crammed closely together......

Not to mention anti-social behavior on buses:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/casual-nastiness-left-me-feeling-like-a-coward-37164042.html

Is it any wonder many people prefer to go by car rather than by bus.

StreetLight · 30-07-2018 10:37am

Ernest wrote: »

I use buses frequently as the nearest bus stop to my house is closer than the nearest DART station. Off-peak they may be quieter but never as comfortable as the DART, as they sway uncomfortably when they swing into stops and swing back out into traffic, and vibrate and shudder due to diesel engines.
As for peak travel....buses are stuffy as windows are never open especially in winter when they fog-up making identification of location difficult - not to mention spreading germs from people crammed closely together......

Not to mention anti-social behavior on buses:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/casual-nastiness-left-me-feeling-like-a-coward-37164042.html

Is it any wonder many people prefer to go by car rather than by bus.

First world problems.

It's obvious you haven't been on a Dublin Bus in years. There are audio and video announcements every 10-20 seconds to let passengers know of the location of the upcoming stop.

MJohnston · 30-07-2018 11:21am

In fairness to him, they are still really sweaty and horrible on wet and warm days...I don't really know what you could physically do about that though? Air-conditioned buses would probably be too expensive (and I mean proper A/C, not just fans blowing external air).

Carlos Orange · 30-07-2018 11:45am

StreetLight wrote: »

It's obvious you haven't been on a Dublin Bus in years. There are audio and video announcements every 10-20 seconds to let passengers know of the location of the upcoming stop.

Man that sounds annoying.

StreetLight · 30-07-2018 11:49am

psinno wrote: »

Man that sounds annoying.

One of the drawbacks from having so many stops too close together!

AlekSmart · 30-07-2018 12:25pm

StreetLight wrote: »

One of the drawbacks from having so many stops too close together!

Oddly enough that was an issue which caught the NTA out in the initial stages of the Next-Stop announcement introduction.

The NTA wished to have each Bus Stop fully announced 100 Mtrs in advance,in BOTH official languages,replicated visually on the Internal LED screens.

eg: Next Stop-North Circular Road-An Chead Stad Eile,An Cuarbothar Thuiadh.

After some weeks spent trying to cram a multilingual Quart into the available Pint Pot,reality had to be recognised and the Next-Stop/An Chead Stad Eile intro was dropped (quietly) along with some amended destination descriptions.

It's all very laudable having multilingual guidance,but when it defies the first rule of Public Transport Information,CLARITY,then it actually takes significantly away from it's basic purpose.

Qrt · 30-07-2018 12:54pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oddly enough that was an issue which caught the NTA out in the initial stages of the Next-Stop announcement introduction.

The NTA wished to have each Bus Stop fully announced 100 Mtrs in advance,in BOTH official languages,replicated visually on the Internal LED screens.

eg: Next Stop-North Circular Road-An Chead Stad Eile,An Cuarbothar Thuiadh.

After some weeks spent trying to cram a multilingual Quart into the available Pint Pot,reality had to be recognised and the Next-Stop/An Chead Stad Eile intro was dropped (quietly) along with some amended destination descriptions.

It's all very laudable having multilingual guidance,but when it defies the first rule of Public Transport Information,CLARITY,then it actually takes significantly away from it's basic purpose.

Having "next stop" sounds horrendous. In Germany ATM, the buses just have a small chime then say the name of the stop. "Next stop" is reserved for the rail network AFAIK

AlekSmart · 30-07-2018 1:07pm

Qrt wrote: »

Having "next stop" sounds horrendous. In Germany ATM, the buses just have a small chime then say the name of the stop. "Next stop" is reserved for the rail network AFAIK

Agreed,but to a newly qualified earnest young graduate,it is The Sound of Music itself !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz6wvKUsP6M

Stephen15 · 30-07-2018 7:55pm

Ernest wrote: »

I use buses frequently as the nearest bus stop to my house is closer than the nearest DART station. Off-peak they may be quieter but never as comfortable as the DART, as they sway uncomfortably when they swing into stops and swing back out into traffic, and vibrate and shudder due to diesel engines.
As for peak travel....buses are stuffy as windows are never open especially in winter when they fog-up making identification of location difficult - not to mention spreading germs from people crammed closely together......

Not to mention anti-social behavior on buses:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/casual-nastiness-left-me-feeling-like-a-coward-37164042.html

Is it any wonder many people prefer to go by car rather than by bus.

Rail based transport is always more pleasant to travel on than anything on the road including cars outside of rush hour. Cars also vibrate too from time to time. Many cars don't have AC either and their windows fog up too. I do have a car and I do drive it when it's convienent for me to do so than using public transport.

Anti social behaviour is only a real issue if the bus you get happens to be the 27 from Jobstown in the evening and other routes like the 13, 76 or the 40 and if you lived in those anti social would be effecting your daily life not just your bus commute.

DanDublin1982 · 31-07-2018 8:19am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Anti social behaviour is only a real issue if the bus you get happens to be the 27 from Jobstown in the evening and other routes like the 13, 76 or the 40 and if you lived in those anti social would be effecting your daily life not just your bus commute.

So only West Dublin then where anti social behaviour exists? (Or wherever those other services end up on the northside). I don't use many buses myself but I seriously doubt that anti social behaviour exists on only four of the hundred or so routes in the DB network.

Dublin Bus Changes to Improve City Center Journeys

Comments