Dublin Bus Changes to Improve City Center Journeys

devnull

http://dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-Route-Changes-to-Improve-Journey-Times-for-Customers-in-the-City-Centre/

Dublin Bus, in conjunction with the National Transport Authority (NTA) and Dublin City Council (DCC), has announced that from Monday 29 January a number of route changes will be implemented in the College Green area to alleviate delays being experienced by customers travelling through the city centre.

As a result of this consultation, it has been agreed that some routes will be realigned to improve the journey time for our customers and facilitate a more effective movement of public transport services through the College Green area.

Routes 25, 25a, 25b, 25d, 37, 39, 39a and 70.
Minor route changes will occur on the above routes. However, bus stops along these routes will not be affected.



For full details on revised routing see here:
http://dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Route-Change-on-Routes-25ab-37-39a-and-70/

Routes 25x, 27x, 32x, 33x, 39x, 41x, 51x, 66x, and 67x.
The above Xpresso services will no longer operate through College Green.



For full details on revised routing and bus stop changes see here:
http://dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Rerouting-of-Xpresso-Services-using-College-Street/

Dublin Bus welcomes the commitment by DCC to provide bus priority measures to facilitate these route changes. This commitment to additional bus priority is crucial for the effective operation of all public transport in our city and highlights the important role of the bus in tackling congestion in the city centre.

Dublin Bus will continue to work with the NTA and DCC to monitor the impact of these changes.

r93kaey5p2izun

The 25a has been taking that alternative route 90% of the time anyway for months now.

Dyr

So they bottled it and moved the buses rather than cars and taxis

I don't think it will make much of a difference either

devnull

Be interesting to see what these new bus priority measures are, since there is not really any detail of that.

Riskymove

Bambi wrote: »

So they bottled it and moved the buses rather than cars and taxis

I don't think it will make much of a difference either

cars cannot go through college green busgate at peak times anyway

the issue is fairly and squarely the number of buses at rush hour trying to go over O'Connell bridge and through College green

Stephen15

Why wasn't the 145 included in that as it dosen't stop on Westmoreland St. or go up O'Connell Street?

thomasj

Stephen15 wrote:

Why wasn't the 145 included in that as it dosen't stop on Westmoreland St. or go up O'Connell St.

It stops at 345 beside Pearse street Garda station. That is after Tara street turn.

Dyr

They're going to push more buses down Pearse street and Westland row? both of which is are already backed up at peak times as it is. There are 6 buses due at the westland row stop over the next 4 minutes

Are they just panicking and want to be seen to do something?

spockety

The left turn from Tara St to Burgh Quay in the evening rush hour is going to be fun.

Dermo

Bambi wrote: »

So they bottled it and moved the buses rather than cars and taxis

I don't think it will make much of a difference either

wasn't the original plan to move all buses but dublin bus changed their mind and that's how we got into this mess?

thomasj

spockety wrote:

The left turn from Tara St to Burgh Quay in the evening rush hour is going to be fun.

Sure most of those routes go that way as it is now. And have been doing so for a while.

Stephen15

thomasj wrote: »

It stops at 345 beside Pearse street Garda station. That is after Tara street turn.

But that could be moved. I use that bus fairly regularly and dosen't seem that busy a stop so not stopping there or stopping somewhere else wouldn't a huge issue.

sbs2010

The 27x (and maybe the others) is only changing its morning route. Evening route doesn't use College Green.

In the morning, all the expressos going down Townsend St and trying to get turned right into Lombard St will be interesting.

It might make College Green a bit less congested but I think it'll make the Expressos slower.

devnull

The NTA have released a similar statement, but also a couple more nuggets
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/college-green-bus-changes-announced/

To alleviate these delays, the National Transport Authority has been working with Dublin Bus and Dublin City Council to explore measures which could facilitate a more effective movement of public transport services through the College Green area. This is in advance of the determination by An Bord Pleanála on the proposals for the College Green Plaza project.

The combined impact of these changes will enable the traffic signalling system and junctions in the College Green area to operate more effectively.

The National Transport Authority will continue to work with Dublin Bus and Dublin City Council to monitor the impact of these adjustments. Should a further reduction of vehicles travelling through this area become necessary, a number of other measures will be considered for implementation. Those additional measures would include some further bus route changes in addition to potential taxi restrictions. However, these will only be considered in the event that further vehicle reductions are required.

Stevek101

I'd say we will see the further measure early next month. I can't see these very limited changes alleviating the problem.

Cookie_Monster

Pity DB are still allowed claim the changes, it really should read: NTA, in conjunction with the DB and Dublin City Council (DCC)

Any mindset that DB are still running the show needs to be removed from public documentation at this stage

devnull

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Pity DB are still allowed claim the changes, it really should read: NTA, in conjunction with the DB and Dublin City Council (DCC)

That's just how Dublin Bus has wrote it, the NTA said in their original statement like you said it should read whereas no doubt Dublin City Council will say it is them working in partnership with other parties.

Spanish Eyes

Good to see Tara Street being used. Although it was an unofficial cut through often enough when CG was choked. It is a no brainer and I mentioned this route before in an ancient post!

Surely there is no real need for any bus to go left at the bottom of Dawson Street anymore? Should go right and follow the route for the 25a etc. with a new right turn allowed on OCS. Oh dear that might be a problem!, but could help with proper traffic light sequencing.

I am not sure how it will work on the North/South axis. Same for the 25a and other routes. Does anyone know? Seems to apply only to South/North.

It appears to me that many are affected on the North/South run via Bachelor's Walk to Nassau Street and beyond via CGreen.

hmmm

So bus passengers are going to be sent all over the world with unknown impacts on their journey time, while taxis can continue to transport one or two passengers along their existing routes.

Well done everyone.

hmmm

spockety wrote: »

The left turn from Tara St to Burgh Quay in the evening rush hour is going to be fun.

Yep - some of the buses mentioned go that way, but it's already mostly gridlocked. Now there's going to be lots more buses going that way, and that left turn is already a bit of a disaster - all it takes is one badly placed car or taxi to block it.

I can see a mile long queue of buses down Pearse Street on day 1. No doubt some planner will express surprise at how this could have happened.

Stephen15

hmmm wrote: »

So bus passengers are going to be sent all over the world with unknown impacts on their journey time, while taxis can continue to transport one or two passengers along their existing routes.

Well done everyone.

While I don't necessarily support taxis using College Green these changes are happening due to the introduction of the Luas because only so many buses can use College at a time. The main issue here is buses obstructing one another ie a traffic due to buses now I would support a ban on taxis but we have to curb the numbers of buses on College Green in order for buses and the Luas to all work simultaneously.

Also bus passengers aren't being discomodded due these changes as no stops are being omitted journey time will likely be the very the very same if not then they were before now.

hmmm

Stephen15 wrote: »

but we have to curb the numbers of buses on College Green in order for buses and the Luas to all work simultaneously.

They could have started by banning taxis.

Also bus passengers aren't being discomodded due these changes as no stops are being omitted journey time will likely be the very the very same if not then they were before now.

You don't know that - lots more buses will now be sent down Tara street and a tight left turn onto Burgh quay with no idea what the impact will be on journey times. Meanwhile taxis can continue to use College Green unimpeded.

trellheim

Be under no doubt that when the draconian restrictions come in this will be used as an excuse "well we tried this and it didnt work "

Spanish Eyes

Would a double bus lane on Burgh Quay help the dreaded tight left turn from Tara Street? Might be required since some provincial bus services stop there anyway at the moment.

I am presuming there will be a bus lane on TS anyway.

hmmm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Would a double bus lane on Burgh Quay help the dreaded tight left turn from Tara Street? Might be required since some provincial bus services stop there anyway at the moment.

It needs a double bus lane or wide turning circle, and some sort of physical barrier to stop idiots in cars/taxis blocking the turn.

budgemook

When the buses go down Tara street to avoid Westmoreland St they go over the bridge, turn left and then come back over the Rosie Hackett bridge to return to the south quays.

They're hardly going to try turn left at the bottom of Tara Street are they? If that's the case then it looks like my commute home is about to become as bad as my commute to work or worse!

Stephen15

hmmm wrote: »

They could have started by banning taxis.

You don't know that - lots more buses will now be sent down Tara street and a tight left turn onto Burgh quay with no idea what the impact will be on journey times. Meanwhile taxis can continue to use College Green unimpeded.

But the problem is buses obstruct other buses because of their large size making it difficult for buses to manoeuvre around each other taxis are only small meaning buses can easily manoeuvre around them. I'm not disagreeing with you taxi do cause problems in the city centre and imped on buses but buses also cause issues.

If you are going to suggest curbing taxis on College Green I would agree with you and support it but buses also have to be curbed also. If the Luas is going to be a success and the city is going to become a more pedestrian and public transport user friendly place then the sheer amount of buses all choked up at the one location is going to have to be reduced.

I'm not throwing digs but a lot of people seem to think that DB buses should be given the universal right to drive down what ever street they want and that's the system that works best which is not the case as had been since long before the Luas CC was built. What we need are bus routes which the most logical and efficient which serve different location of the city centre rather than all meeting the one point like big bowl of spaghetti.

MJohnston

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Would a double bus lane on Burgh Quay help the dreaded tight left turn from Tara Street? Might be required since some provincial bus services stop there anyway at the moment.

I am presuming there will be a bus lane on TS anyway.

DCC already showed they're too weak to actually do that, as it was proposed and abandoned by them before:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/change-of-plans-cars-will-not-be-banned-from-dublin-quay-1.3065820?mode=amp

fritzelly

I walk over the Rosie Hackett bridge walking home (faster than the bus now) - cannot see how buses going down Tara St is going to help as the quays are jammers at 5.30 with everyone trying to squeeze through the junction (usually ending with cars blocking the buses/luas coming over the bridge, no one knows what a yellow box is apparently)
All it's going to do is move some of the gridlock away but still end up with buses lined up trying to get out of the city
Should be the taxis/cars made to go that way, on Pearce St there are far too many taxis blocking the way - coming home today one idiot decide to go thru the lights knowing he would be stuck on the luas tracks (yellow box again). Why isn't there a gard there fining all these cars ignoring the rules of the road - bet they would be quick to stop it then.

stop

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Good to see Tara Street being used. Although it was an unofficial cut through often enough when CG was choked. It is a no brainer and I mentioned this route before in an ancient post!

Streetview of Tara St from April 2017 even catches a 25a & 39a using this route!

r93kaey5p2izun

budgemook wrote: »

When the buses go down Tara street to avoid Westmoreland St they go over the bridge, turn left and then come back over the Rosie Hackett bridge to return to the south quays.

They're hardly going to try turn left at the bottom of Tara Street are they? If that's the case then it looks like my commute home is about to become as bad as my commute to work or worse!

No, the 25a/b don't go over the bridge. They always just turn left from Tara Street on to the quays. They've been doing it for nearly a year already.

budgemook

Caden Disgusting Producer wrote: »

No, the 25a/b don't go over the bridge. They always just turn left from Tara Street on to the quays. They've been doing it for nearly a year already.

Sorry I meant the buses that unofficially go down there like the 37, 39 and 39a - the ones that will officially be going that way from Monday.

r93kaey5p2izun

budgemook wrote: »

Sorry I meant the buses that unofficially go down there like the 37, 39 and 39a - the ones that will officially be going that way from Monday.

The 25a/b has also been only using it unofficially and just officially changing from Monday. They should have been going down Westmoreland Street but just didn't bother 90% of the time since Luas works blocked up College Green.

Patser

Burgh Quay has become a nightmare since the new layout came in. On paper it looks good but in reality poor road markings and absolutely zero enforcement has lead to huge problems on Tara St.

For example, coming down George's Quay you have 3 lanes of traffic - 1 bus lane and 2 normal lanes, and this continues up to Rosie Hackett Bridge, when without any forewarning to right hand lane is now a right only lane - do everyone in the right now has to merge into middle lane (or just plough happily across Westmoreland St junction and claiming ignorance as many do).

So while 2 lanes of heavy traffic are now trying to merge into 1 at Rosie Hackett, others are using the rat run down Corn Exchange Place (immigration bureau) to beat traffic on Tara St and George's quay, and are now blocking bus lane to merge in.

Meanwhile at Tara St people are trying to turn left into this jam in the left only lane - correct - but are getting cut up by those ignoring the big 'Straight Ahead' only markings to skip the queue and swing left at last second. Leaving poor sod that's in correct lane now stuck halfway around turn and also blocking bus lane.

On George's Quay everyone is now moving into right hand lane to skip all this mess at Tara St junction, flying up to Rosie Hackett wondering why no one else is using this lane, then noticing they're suddenly in a right only lane and cutting in whenever they can (usually yellow box at Rosie Hackett so buses are now stuck on the bridge)

And all this now flow restricted by soon to be even longer Luases (luaii? Luass?? Luasseses?) crossing on the bridge.

Just make it a double bus lane, put all other traffic from George's quay along into a single lane (have right turn lanes at Butt and O'Connell bridges, but with access controlled by kerbing/bollards so you can't cut back in). Have Tara St left lane bus only with wide turn into bus lane on Burgh Quay, a 2ns left turn lane for other traffic onto now single far right lane, and again put in some sort of physical barrier to stop muppets cutting in). The double bus lane can merge into single lane after Rosie Hackett, and just like the separate lights now in place on Bachelors Walk buses and cars could be given different timings - which will allow for cars to still make the right turn onto D'Olier St, and also allow buses merge with each other without having to watch for cars as well.

jimmycrackcorm

Caden Disgusting Producer wrote:

The 25a has been taking that alternative route 90% of the time anyway for months now.

Let's not discriminate against the poor 25b, but I've been impressed by drivers whose drive this. They're not just auto boots you know!!!

hmmm wrote:

So bus passengers are going to be sent all over the world with unknown impacts on their journey time, while taxis can continue to transport one or two passengers along their existing routes.

Anyone who spends ten times the cost on a taxi over a bus fare probably really needs to do that. You might have some urgent need to do the same since time, so be grateful that there is such an option.

hmmm

Stephen15 wrote: »

What we need are bus routes which the most logical and efficient which serve different location of the city centre rather than all meeting the one point like big bowl of spaghetti.

This is not logic and efficiency, this is prioritising one form of public transport over another, and in particular it is about treating bus passengers as second class citizens - let's shove the buses down a narrow funnel so the shiny grey tube can glide around like in a real life version of sim city.

Bus passengers have been treated disgracefully throughout this LCC process. We're falling over to congratulate planners for introducing bus priority on the quays, years after it was actually needed. The planners have capitulated to the private car and taxi lobbies repeatedly - with buses being the ones to suffer.

What's going to happen? Bus passengers are going to suffer, LCC might run more smoothly, taxis are going to clog up the Green as per usual, and success will be declared.

nilescraneo

It's never going to change either. I have no faith in the upcoming bus connects lark after this continuing fiasco of pretending there's enough room for taxis, cars, busses and new luas in the city centre. The continual screwing over of bus users (biggest public transport mode in the city) particularly users who have no other option but the bus is insane, and illustrates that the decision makers in DCC and NTA have absolutely no clue what they are doing, but just want a shiny thing to have their photo taken beside once every decade or so.

prinzeugen

This is just the start. No though for people that NEED the bus.

Its typical as they think the only bus users are commuters.

I agree that the long trams should go no further than Stephens Green and turn around.

Open up the useless cyclelane outside the BOI and the pressure would be off.

Think this is the Plaza by stealth however.

monument

The Luas is on College Green, services are going to increase, not decrease, trams are going to get longer and pedestrian priority is not going to be held back for much longer.

In the above outlined reality, these messures are as much about keeping buses moving as keeping trams moving.

As I’ve stated loads of times, the debate about Luas going around should have been had more openly. But that’s the past.

cgcsb

It's good that DB is getting away from it's An Larism. That needed to happen anyway, not everything can go through the one street. A bus lane on Tara St and no left turn for cars is needed.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the CG plaza and Bus Connects were planned and implemented 2 years ago.

dashcamdanny

These measures should help .. A little.

Ringsend buses, I find the bus gate to be the biggest hurdle. Rush hour busses and taxis are the problem .

I cant get my bus through the bus gate without blocking the yellow box in some way. (which the Garda are ticketing us for ) If one does not push, then the bus will simply stay in the bus gate all day. There is never any clear space in front of the yellow box. Even during non peek times.
The traffic from D'Olier Street gets a green light exiting the street and then a red at the trinity/BOI pedestrian lights. Which fills the lane just before the bus gate get a green light. WHich in turn forces busgate traffic to break the law and block the box. Or sit, forever.

I cant believe the guy who designed all this got away with the problems he caused to so many.

hmmm

monument wrote: »

In the above outlined reality, these messures are as much about keeping buses moving as keeping trams moving.

It would be helpful if the planners, and those commentating, would avoid being so pompous about what is happening and show a bit more humility.

No professional involved in planning has apologised to bus (and Green line) passengers for what has happened. Changes are being rammed through in an attempt to alleviate the issues. Bus passengers are being told that they have to suck it up because apparently the needs of the LUAS supersede all other forms of public transport.

shanec1928

Caden Disgusting Producer wrote: »

No, the 25a/b don't go over the bridge. They always just turn left from Tara Street on to the quays. They've been doing it for nearly a year already.

ive been on a 25b when the driver has went that way before.

dfx-

monument wrote: »

In the above outlined reality, these messures are as much about keeping buses moving as keeping trams moving.

As I’ve stated loads of times, the debate about Luas going around should have been had more openly. But that’s the past.

What a dreadful line, what you might expect out of a corporate meeting or an NTA flyer.

George's Quay is the last place you'd send buses to keep them moving if that is actually what concerned them (it doesn't)

Infini

Brilliant idea. Route more buses through the Tara st blockade thats so utterly choked up these days that traffic barely moves and big vehicles constantly block up the yellow box. c_c

monument

hmmm wrote: »

It would be helpful if the planners, and those commentating, would avoid being so pompous about what is happening and show a bit more humility.

No professional involved in planning has apologised to bus (and Green line) passengers for what has happened. Changes are being rammed through in an attempt to alleviate the issues. Bus passengers are being told that they have to suck it up because apparently the needs of the LUAS supersede all other forms of public transport.

I’m open to correction here, but, based on what I know...

The problem is that you seem to be directing that at the people who are cleaning up the mess and those who are defending them.

The main people who created the mess were politicians, the RPA/TII and Dublin Bus for allowing Luas Cross City to be planned without accepting the wider impacts or without objecting to that because that’s what the department told them to do.

They buried their heads in the sand — maybe they were right? Because people who are sticking their heads out to fix the problem or those defending them are getting the slack now.

dfx- wrote: »

What a dreadful line, what you might expect out of a corporate meeting or an NTA flyer.

George's Quay is the last place you'd send buses to keep them moving if that is actually what concerned them (it doesn't)

What’s the alternative?

Keep everything on College Green? That’d be worse for everyone, including bus passages.

Stop trams on a newly opened route? That’s not going to happen.

At some point we have to start being realistic, even if some people see that as being dreadful.

Infini wrote: »

Brilliant idea. Route more buses through the Tara st blockade thats so utterly choked up these days that traffic barely moves and big vehicles constantly block up the yellow box. c_c

Bus lanes, bus routing fixes, and generally more restrictions on cars entering the area was always going to be needed. Even if the RPA/TII were in denial.

Spanish Eyes

So the 25a/b will go down Tara Street (Officially) from Monday.

I wish I had the time to go through the timetable to see how many other routes will still use College Green including those those going up and down Dame Street. I'd say it's a hell of a lot of buses!

Not enough space for everyone is there? Something's got to give.

Hugh Jampton

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So the 25a/b will go down Tara Street (Officially) from Monday.

I wish I had the time to go through the timetable to see how many other routes will still use College Green including those those going up and down Dame Street. I'd say it's a hell of a lot of buses!

Not enough space for everyone is there? Something's got to give.

Routing buses from different parts of the city into the same places isn't going to be sustainable, much and all as commuters in the GDA allegedly don't want to change enroute.

The only way around this mess is to reconfigure bus routes where trams and trains already run into feeders for them and to create drop off points near the city centre for pax to change to a bus, tram or train that will bring them closest to where they want to go. All one fare on one ticket.

Connections then must be so frequent that there is no usual Dublin farting around waiting for a relatively infrequent connection. Finite road space needs to be allocated according to need.

fritzelly

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

All one fare on one ticket.

Seems to work well for most of Europe - around a euro or so for 60 mins of travel on buses, trams, underground, trains..., so not likely to ever happen here

fly_agaric

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

The only way around this mess is to reconfigure bus routes where trams and trains already run into feeders for them and to create drop off points near the city centre for pax to change to a bus, tram or train that will bring them closest to where they want to go. All one fare on one ticket.

The Luas network is a toy system with 2 lines that looks modern + nice, and presents a certain image for Dublin but barely is able for what it needs to carry now. It could not handle a load of outlying bus routes feeding into it I think; perhaps some one can correct me? For that idea we need a load more new public transport infrastructure in Dublin, which is decades away being optimistic.

hmmm

Is there any works taking place this weekend? What are the council doing to improve bus prioritisation on the impacted routes?