Any of you never had a relationship?

Pug160 · 22-07-2018 08:14PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Honestly, it's a mix of awkwardness and being accustomed to the single life. I'm at the stage where I confidently enjoy my own company and do my own thing be it wandering around, going to museums, hiking, movies, gaming, etc... I'm quite fond of my "me time" and the thought of anyone trying to encroach upon it such as a former landlord expressing an interest in joining me on one of my countryside constitutionals is horrifying.

Then there's the awkwardness. I work in a global university which is full to the brim of highly intelligent women (one upside of gender diversity initiatives) who are at the top of their field (Biomedical and cancer research if you're wondering). I expressed frustration at a very small work meeting when I'd a few pints in me only to be told that one of the medics likes me. I'd no idea and, frankly find the prospect dubious. I chat to her when I see her which isn't often. A housemate suggested setting me up with one of her friends. Not wishing to cause offence, I expressed enthusiasm only for it to come to naught.

TLDR; a mix of bemusement and reluctance.

Well in your case it sounds as though you have found a certain degree of fulfilment as well as a good quality of life. A lot of people find that when they do things alone like that it gets boring fairly quickly. So yeah, it's probably not as bad for you in an overall sense. Thing is, there's lonely then there's romantically lonely. I had a friend who was very intelligent and independent, and had a nice little apartment and car and everything else (he was a computer engineer so must have had a handsome salary). He seemed to have been someone who was very comfortable doing his own thing, and from what he was telling everyone else, he would only settle if his high standards were met. He ended up compromising quite a bit in the looks department but personality wise they got on very well.

CIP4 · 22-07-2018 09:17PM

I am in a smiler boat well a bit younger 24 and haven't had any kind of a serious relationship. Mainly because like many of you I enjoy my own company and never had any great need for a relationship so never put in any effort to find anyone plus it always seemed to fall down the list of priorities when in college it was all about study and doing well for me. When I graduated and got my first job over 2 years ago it was all about focusing on that and putting in the work to move up the ladder a bit. However quite recently in the last few months I have realised I would like to meet someone so I am slowly starting to change my ways and put in a bit of effort. So I am kind of in the middle of the scale don't seeing being single as a failure and equally am not deliberately trying to stay single and avoid relationships. We shall see how it goes.

I know plenty of people who never met until late 30s,40s and even 50s and are now happily married so I don't think its ever too late to met someone as such.

shakeitoff · 22-07-2018 09:35PM

Who is legit ugly though

Pug160 · 22-07-2018 10:02PM

shakeitoff wrote: »

Who is legit ugly though

Karl Pilkington with a little bit more hair (just a little bit mind you) and a slightly less round face than him. I also take reasonably good care of myself and dress fairly well, especially if I'm going out for the night.

22-07-2018 10:10PM

Pug160 wrote: »

It's not all doom and gloom of course, and there is no reason anybody in the same position can't overcome it. But to put this into some kind of perspective, some women would probably be more shocked that a man had never been in a relationship by a certain age, than she would be if he told her he had a criminal record or something like that.

I know quite a few women who would consider it to be cute...

But they're not western women. And TBH I've met many women abroad who are in the same boat... or have only had a few shallow relationships, or relationships with long distances between them.

I really don't see it to be a problem.

For me, it's a kind of ''cross that bridge when I come to it'' sort of thing. I don't really know what I'll do.

I've learned to be brutally honest about most things... It works far better anyway. Lies grow. Hedging questions raises trust issues. I think it's much better to be honest, and just say it as it is.

If she's someone worth being with... she'll take it as an opportunity.

Pug160 · 22-07-2018 10:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I know quite a few women who would consider it to be cute... But they're not western women. And TBH I've met quite a few women abroad who are in the same boat... or have only had a few shallow relationships, or relationships with long distances between them.

I really don't see it to be a problem.

I've learned to be brutally honest about most things... It works far better anyway. Lies grow. Hedging questions raises trust issues. I think it's much better to be honest, and just say it as it is.

If she's someone worth being with... she'll take it as an opportunity.

I know that in theory, a decent woman won't care and will see past it. But what about all of the decent women who will care? As I said, it's a catch 22 situation and there is no easy answer. Objectively speaking a woman should care or at least view it as a red flag. Sure, I could be brutally honest, but in doing so I run the risk of putting a severe limit on my potential pool of partners.

How brutal are we talking here? I think at a bare minimum it would require some degree of timing and care. It does raise the question of whether or not some lies are justifiable, or at the very least understandable. But it's not a good way to start a relationship, that's for sure. To me, it's a question of scale. A red flag in itself may not be a deal breaker, but I'd prefer it not to be a 100 foot one.

ancapailldorcha · 22-07-2018 10:47PM

Pug160 wrote: »

Well in your case it sounds as though you have found a certain degree of fulfilment as well as a good quality of life. A lot of people find that when they do things alone like that it gets boring fairly quickly. So yeah, it's probably not as bad for you in an overall sense. Thing is, there's lonely then there's romantically lonely. I had a friend who was very intelligent and independent, and had a nice little apartment and car and everything else (he was a computer engineer so must have had a handsome salary). He seemed to have been someone who was very comfortable doing his own thing, and from what he was telling everyone else, he would only settle if his high standards were met. He ended up compromising quite a bit in the looks department but personality wise they got on very well.

Yes and no. I'd like my career to be much more defined to be honest. All a bit nebulous on that score. I'm at the stage now where my friends are all getting married which doesn't exactly help things.

I did 2 weeks solo in Cuba last month and it was great. Didn't get lonely at all to be honest. Just did my own thing with nobody around to complain. Bumped into some random people as well which was great.

Pug160 · 22-07-2018 11:25PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Yes and no. I'd like my career to be much more defined to be honest. All a bit nebulous on that score. I'm at the stage now where my friends are all getting married which doesn't exactly help things.

I did 2 weeks solo in Cuba last month and it was great. Didn't get lonely at all to be honest. Just did my own thing with nobody around to complain. Bumped into some random people as well which was great.

Yeah, you're definitely not lacking in bravery or competence if you're doing that sort of thing. Travelling like that can take some degree of effort even for someone with a high level of general intelligence. You almost certainly have to ask a lot of questions and plan ahead, and because you're doing it alone, all of the effort is yours to bear.

Post 9/11, airports are not always particularly nice places to go through either, and if you're travelling further afield that can presumably intensify. Maybe it doesn't seem like much of an achievement these days as even the dog on the street seems to be hopping on a plane and travelling, but it still isn't something a lot of people would do, especially on that scale. Certainly anybody doing it can be ruled out of the ''useless'' camp.

22-07-2018 11:53PM

Pug160 wrote: »

I know that in theory, a decent woman won't care and will see past it. But what about all of the decent women who will care? As I said, it's a catch 22 situation and there is no easy answer. Objectively speaking a woman should care or at least view it as a red flag. Sure, I could be brutally honest, but in doing so I run the risk of putting a severe limit on my potential pool of partners.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Every relationship I've had (admittedly none past three years) has been different. The lack of relationship experience shouldn't be an issue, because your relationship with her will naturally be different from any others. Why? because she's unique.

I think people make up difficulties for themselves where none really exist. I've never had a woman who was interested in a relationship be bothered by my lack of longer term experience. I was just honest in saying that I waited for the right women to be with rather than treading water with those I knew wouldn't last. I think most women will understand that logic. Its also like the way that many women love to be with a virgin... that innocence, and the ability to mold the guy whatever way they wish without having to deal with the baggage left by other women.

How brutal are we talking here? I think at a bare minimum it would require some degree of timing and care. It does raise the question of whether or not some lies are justifiable, or at the very least understandable. But it's not a good way to start a relationship, that's for sure. To me, it's a question of scale. A red flag in itself may not be a deal breaker, but I'd prefer it not to be a 100 foot one.

Do you really want to start a relationship with lies, and having to watch what you say forever afterward? I can guarantee that most women have good memories and will remember what you said during your first few dates. Oh, they'll make mistakes but I've noticed they're generally quite good at remembering what's said, especially if it ticked one of her boxes.

And I've had the experience of telling lies when I was younger and trying to keep track of them.. It doesn't work. You tell yourself that it does, but after a short time, people notice the discrepancies. It's simply not worth it.

Look. Be honest. At least then, you'll know she wants to be with you... AND TBH being honest is terribly sexy to a woman, since many other guys lie or tell BS. Be yourself, and be proud of yourself.

22-07-2018 11:57PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Yes and no. I'd like my career to be much more defined to be honest. All a bit nebulous on that score. I'm at the stage now where my friends are all getting married which doesn't exactly help things.

I did 2 weeks solo in Cuba last month and it was great. Didn't get lonely at all to be honest. Just did my own thing with nobody around to complain. Bumped into some random people as well which was great.

I've always traveled alone, and I tend to live alone too in foreign countries. I love being an outsider living in China or Japan. Most westerners hate it but it's liberating for me. I would like to travel more with other people, but my past experiences have usually resulted with them wanting to go/do crap I wasn't interested in, or being stuck as a 3rd wheel.

archer22 · 23-07-2018 12:22AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've always traveled alone, and I tend to live alone too in foreign countries. I love being an outsider living in China or Japan. Most westerners hate it but it's liberating for me. I would like to travel more with other people, but my past experiences have usually resulted with them wanting to go/do crap I wasn't interested in, or being stuck as a 3rd wheel.

:rolleyes:

ancapailldorcha · 23-07-2018 10:59AM

Pug160 wrote: »

Yeah, you're definitely not lacking in bravery or competence if you're doing that sort of thing. Travelling like that can take some degree of effort even for someone with a high level of general intelligence. You almost certainly have to ask a lot of questions and plan ahead, and because you're doing it alone, all of the effort is yours to bear.

Post 9/11, airports are not always particularly nice places to go through either, and if you're travelling further afield that can presumably intensify. Maybe it doesn't seem like much of an achievement these days as even the dog on the street seems to be hopping on a plane and travelling, but it still isn't something a lot of people would do, especially on that scale. Certainly anybody doing it can be ruled out of the ''useless'' camp.

Thanks. I wouldn't call myself particularly brave. I'm a big fan of my comfort zone and resent having my routine disrupted in any form. That said, I don't want to regret missing out when I am older. I did ask my mate who was there last year A LOT of questions. He sold it to me on the basis that it's a "safe & sunny North Korea". My friends are all settled at this stage so it was go alone or not go. I made what I think was the right choice.

Deleted User wrote: »

I've always traveled alone, and I tend to live alone too in foreign countries. I love being an outsider living in China or Japan. Most westerners hate it but it's liberating for me. I would like to travel more with other people, but my past experiences have usually resulted with them wanting to go/do crap I wasn't interested in, or being stuck as a 3rd wheel.

It's great, especially when you meet people. Had dinner with two random Italian girls. Never would have happened in London. Never lived in China or Japan. I was quite easily put off by such things when I was younger which is a shame.

H3llR4iser · 23-07-2018 12:59PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Honestly, it's a mix of awkwardness and being accustomed to the single life. I'm at the stage where I confidently enjoy my own company and do my own thing be it wandering around, going to museums, hiking, movies, gaming, etc... I'm quite fond of my "me time" and the thought of anyone trying to encroach upon it such as a former landlord expressing an interest in joining me on one of my countryside constitutionals is horrifying...[CUT]

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

[CUT]...
I did 2 weeks solo in Cuba last month and it was great. Didn't get lonely at all to be honest. Just did my own thing with nobody around to complain. Bumped into some random people as well which was great.

You could have been describing myself down to a T. I've been on holiday in the US in March, best trip so far. Flew to Newark, spent a week in NY with no schedule, nothing set, wandering around the city as I pleased, stopping to eat when I was hungry (if I felt like hot dogs in Central Park, so be it), visiting the kind of museums I enjoy the most (anything Science & Technology related, basically). Met a long time friend from Boston over lunch one of the days.

Then a 4 hours drive down to Washington DC and a few more days of the same in a different city (DC is well worth visiting, can't understand why so many people disregard it). Spent almost a whole day at the Smithsonian Air & Space museum. Fly back on a red eye flight from Dulles.

In general, I'm the same - I have my own things going on which I enjoy doing immensely, I always have something I want to do and to be honest, boredom is something that I only encounter when in social environments. The odd times I have been in relationships, I have been sorely missing doing things alone, especially getting on an airplane and going somewhere. When single, however, I never actually miss anything from the relationships outside of the purely biological parts of them, you know what I mean.

I guess it can be said that people bore me

23-07-2018 04:15PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's great, especially when you meet people. Had dinner with two random Italian girls. Never would have happened in London. Never lived in China or Japan. I was quite easily put off by such things when I was younger which is a shame.

My experiences with groups travelling... there wasn't much room for meeting other people randomly. Oh, sure you met someone for a chat in a pub, but the group was very fixed... I went through Australia alone, meeting people in hostels, and traveling some way with them... and then meeting others and going in a different direction. It was fun to do that since I suck at planning trips.

Highly recommend Asia to you. I love living in China, and I'm returning there again in September (it will be my 9th year living there). Korea is a great destination, and their cultural history is fascinating... whereas Japan is just, wow... I find their modern culture far more interesting than their past, but then, I did the whole samurai thingy my first visit there. Been there 5 times with 3 of those time being longer than 3 months. Well worth the time spent.

I would recommend Asia though for a single person, not just for the romantic/sexual aspects, but also for the confidence it gives you. It's really not that difficult to travel there but it feels like it is.. and that's such a confidence boost. Plus... the fact that incredibly beautiful women will find you attractive because you're exotic, removes a lot of shyness/awkwardness that we all might have gained growing up in the west.

It's also good being a bit older because Asia respects age... Don't need to be elderly to be appreciated either, although you'll get many curious questions as to why your parents didn't force you into an arranged marriage by your age. That kind of conversation is an experience in itself. :pac::pac:

Pug160 · 23-07-2018 08:27PM

Oh, I'm not really disagreeing too much with what you're saying Klaz, but I do think it is something that at least needs careful consideration. I view things a bit more on the cynical side, but there is always a healthy balance to how you need to view these things, and I'm aware that I need to re-evaluate from time to time. To be honest, I think there is an elephant in the room here. Or at least, there are issues we are not speaking about which may be important to other people who haven't been in a relationship before. With you guys talking about travelling the world and having other parts of your lives pieced together, it made me think about the whole issue of competence once again. Most of you will probably be people with a high degree of general intelligence, and perhaps just as importantly, fluid intelligence. So in your case, any lack of success romantically isn't due to a general lack of ability. Even so, I suspect there are some people who suffer because of a lack of that. It can only be discussed on a case by case basis of course, as there are so many variables. For example, anxiety and low self esteem can affect perceived ability.

I do think it's an important issue to raise, especially in this day and age when women are more independent than ever. I know he has been mentioned to death on here and is by no means perfect, but it's an issue he (Jordan Peterson) raised in the Cathy Newman interview when he talked about ''overgrown kids'' or words to that effect. That would have hit some people like a ton of muck and made them think. Most of the time, I suspect women will want someone who will at least be able to do half of the work, whatever that may entail. I'm always hearing of certain men - men who go from woman to woman and break hearts, or men who are given multiple chances when they've done something immoral - and it makes me think that at least a significant part of their appeal to women must be their competence. Maybe some women even view it as something that is somewhat scarce? After all, what good are you to her if you're not particularly useful? Obviously confidence, assertiveness and physical attraction come into it, along with other qualities, but it seems clear to me that a flawed but generally competent man will get on further in life than someone who is more of an honest, decent sort but who doesn't have a lot of perceived practical qualities. It's completely understandable. And it also doesn't mean there aren't decent people who are more than competent and who also have a reasonable standard of morality. I know that the ''sociopathic jerks get all the women'' can be an easy way for some people to think, and it's understandable, but it is a conclusion some people come to before a more level headed one is accepted.

23-07-2018 10:36PM

Pug160 wrote: »

Oh, I'm not really disagreeing too much with what you're saying Klaz, but I do think it is something that at least needs careful consideration. I view things a bit more on the cynical side, but there is always a healthy balance to how you need to view these things, and I'm aware that I need to re-evaluate from time to time. To be honest, I think there is an elephant in the room here. Or at least, there are issues we are not speaking about which may be important to other people who haven't been in a relationship before. With you guys talking about travelling the world and having other parts of your lives pieced together, it made me think about the whole issue of competence once again. Most of you will probably be people with a high degree of general intelligence, and perhaps just as importantly, fluid intelligence. So in your case, any lack of success romantically isn't due to a general lack of ability. Even so, I suspect there are some people who suffer because of a lack of that. It can only be discussed on a case by case basis of course, as there are so many variables.

I left Ireland when I was 30 because I couldn't get a relationship, and because my comfort zone had become so important to me. I was tired of getting stoned with my circle of friends (all of whom were in relationships or married), playing computer games, or Vampire the Masquerade rp. I was tired of going out to one of three nightclubs each barely larger than a bar, and seeing the same women all the time, the same ones who had rejected me previously. Even then, I moved to four different towns in Ireland along with both Cork and Dublin, and very little changed for me. Eventually, I just had enough. Decided on Thursday, sold my car, rented out my house, signed over my mortgage to my parents, and flew out to Brisbane on Sunday.

For example, anxiety and low self esteem can affect perceived ability.

I have a very acute shaking disorder that affects most of my body which is increased by stress. Approaching women used to be a very stressful experience. Still did it though.

I'm snipping the rest because you're wallowing in your insecurity. Just my opinion mind.. but I did a lot similar. Best thing I ever did was to leave Ireland, and get some help from experts in dating (not PUA)... and then to get out there dating beautiful foreigners. Ireland tended to suck me into a helpless state where I couldn't deal with women. Getting out gave me the perspective of my own value separate to the values of the Irish society I grew up in, and I gained the knowledge that I could improve myself.

So... My advice... change your environment and improve yourself. Stop living in the past. It's dead. Your future is whatever you want it to be... and focusing on the past so much will simply encourage it to repeat.

There's a lot of talk here on boards about how great Ireland is and how most people should be able to learn how to get by. Well... that's all well and good, but for some of us, Ireland is not conducive to improving our confidence, because we have so many negative memories holding us back. Changing your environment for a few years can totally remove that link.

I would highly recommend for you to attend a few NLP seminars at some stage, and talk to them about both memory, and confidence. It would take too long for my to discuss it here but there are excellent tools out there for self-improvement which many on the internet turn their noses up at (because they didn't need it themselves), but are very effective. I'm speaking from experience here.

23-07-2018 11:02PM

Just to add something. Peterson, and others you'll find releasing publications or Youtube vids are great for making you think... but thinking about these things doesn't propel you anywhere. It's like many people doing online courses, where they watch the vids repeatedly but a huge percentage of users don't actually complete the course. They just repeatedly watch someone talk about it, thinking that there is some special insight to hear that will change everything.

Dating and relationships are practical applications. You improve by doing. Yes, it's important to gain more knowledge but it's also important to commit yourself to change. It's one of my biggest dislikes about Peterson is that everything is so abstract. Theoretical. It's almost like Philosophy. There's no real roadmap to apply what he says... instead its simply about making people think/consider something different. And that's good but it seems people nowadays spend too much time researching and not enough on the practical aspects.

Lastly, for those who have consistently failed to gain a relationship... What i say isn't any judgment about Irish women or Irish culture. Neither suited me. I, personally, had huge success abroad, and that's why I continue to recommend leaving Ireland for a few years to gain confidence in yourself. I know others who have had the same experience compared to their respective countries. Perhaps you are very different from me. I suspect you probably are. Still... It's an option... but don't immobilize yourself delaying making changes to your life just expecting it to suddenly improve. If you're reaching your late 20s/30s and it hasn't yet, then doing to the same things is not going to generate a different outcome. And staying in your community of a few thousand isn't going to help much either.

Still.. Dublin is a definite option. It's changed a lot since I was 30, and there are far more options for dating than the more traditional Irish ways, along with a large foreign community. Europe is also very doable due to the EU, and even without a second language, there are jobs to be had.

jaxxx · 23-07-2018 11:04PM

I'm 28 and in the same vote. Just gets very lonely.

shakeitoff · 23-07-2018 11:31PM

jaxxx wrote: »

I'm 28 and in the same vote. Just gets very lonely.

Are you ugly? I walked by some first year college students today and didn't get one look :eek: Immediately thought of this thread.

jaxxx · 23-07-2018 11:35PM

shakeitoff wrote: »

Are you ugly? I walked by some first year college students today and didn't get one look :eek: Immediately thought of this thread.

Well I've never shattered a mirror just by looking at it so I can't be that ugly.

ancapailldorcha · 24-07-2018 11:41AM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

You could have been describing myself down to a T. I've been on holiday in the US in March, best trip so far. Flew to Newark, spent a week in NY with no schedule, nothing set, wandering around the city as I pleased, stopping to eat when I was hungry (if I felt like hot dogs in Central Park, so be it), visiting the kind of museums I enjoy the most (anything Science & Technology related, basically). Met a long time friend from Boston over lunch one of the days.

Then a 4 hours drive down to Washington DC and a few more days of the same in a different city (DC is well worth visiting, can't understand why so many people disregard it). Spent almost a whole day at the Smithsonian Air & Space museum. Fly back on a red eye flight from Dulles.

In general, I'm the same - I have my own things going on which I enjoy doing immensely, I always have something I want to do and to be honest, boredom is something that I only encounter when in social environments. The odd times I have been in relationships, I have been sorely missing doing things alone, especially getting on an airplane and going somewhere. When single, however, I never actually miss anything from the relationships outside of the purely biological parts of them, you know what I mean.

I guess it can be said that people bore me

That's it though. You can do what YOU want. I spent hours on end in places just chilling and reading my book with the sun out and the band playing. Pure bliss, like. Sometimes, it would be nice to have someone to share such things with but I think it's important for an individual's own wellbeing that they be able to enjoy their own company.

Deleted User wrote: »

My experiences with groups travelling... there wasn't much room for meeting other people randomly. Oh, sure you met someone for a chat in a pub, but the group was very fixed... I went through Australia alone, meeting people in hostels, and traveling some way with them... and then meeting others and going in a different direction. It was fun to do that since I suck at planning trips.

Highly recommend Asia to you. I love living in China, and I'm returning there again in September (it will be my 9th year living there). Korea is a great destination, and their cultural history is fascinating... whereas Japan is just, wow... I find their modern culture far more interesting than their past, but then, I did the whole samurai thingy my first visit there. Been there 5 times with 3 of those time being longer than 3 months. Well worth the time spent.

I would recommend Asia though for a single person, not just for the romantic/sexual aspects, but also for the confidence it gives you. It's really not that difficult to travel there but it feels like it is.. and that's such a confidence boost. Plus... the fact that incredibly beautiful women will find you attractive because you're exotic, removes a lot of shyness/awkwardness that we all might have gained growing up in the west.

It's also good being a bit older because Asia respects age... Don't need to be elderly to be appreciated either, although you'll get many curious questions as to why your parents didn't force you into an arranged marriage by your age. That kind of conversation is an experience in itself. :pac::pac:

Fair play to you. Think I might be a bit old for that carry on. Not sure what I want to do with my life but I wouldn't rule it out.

24-07-2018 12:00PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Fair play to you. Think I might be a bit old for that carry on. Not sure what I want to do with my life but I wouldn't rule it out.

Age is mostly a state of mind... Oh, there are definite physical issues, and a sense of been there/done that, but you set your own frame for how you perceive the impact of your age (or accept other peoples frame as to how you deal with age).

For example, I know a retired Air Force pilot living in China who just turned 80, married to a woman (40 yr old) he met last year. He tends to travel around Asia doing anything he's remotely interested in. Now, I know he's mostly an exception to the norm, but it's a good reminder that you can be whoever you want to be. Age is a factor, but only because you're choosing to make it important.

24-07-2018 01:25PM

Travelling alone is the best. I did 3 cities in one last year, almost died with transport incidents. :P Cheap booze, new setting. Sometimes I'd sit on a boat reading, sometimes I'd try a dive resturant, sometimes I'd stick to McDonalds. I'd go for a wander and maybe I'd stay out til 2 or maybe I'd be back for 10 and catch up on more reading. Didn't have pressure to do something while hungover and didn't have to wait for someone else while they were hungover. Didn't have to go look at stuff I wasn't massively interested in and didn't have to figure out what stuff I was interested in that wouldn't bore someone else. Bliss. :P

Wibbs · 25-07-2018 09:36AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Travelling alone is the best.

I have found it depends entirely on the company. At times, yes one's own company is the best, but at others having a "partner in crime" makes travel better. Finding such company is the trick. Of my exes I would say two were fantastic fellow travellers. Women who made the journeys and experiences and memories far better than they would have been if I had been on my own. Other exes not so much and didn't really add to it, and sometimes subtracted. The veg on a beach topping up their tans like the other slowly broiling lobsters types.

shakeitoff · 26-07-2018 12:21AM

Introversion is a pretty much death sentence when it comes to women(It will still hinder you but you'll get some confident girl who takes her chance eventually) unless you are notably handsome or somehow manage to etch out some status by being very good at something/high position. Women aren't attracted to it that's for sure, whereas they're attracted to extroversion.

26-07-2018 09:04AM

I'm an introvert. And You don't need alcohol to behave in a more active or social manner. Don't believe the stereotype. You can be an introvert and still be socially popular or charismatic with women. You do something that apparently many women also do. You fake it.

Pretend. Go through the motions and "dial it up"/"tone it down" based on the responses of those around you.

Do something enough and it becomes a habit, and then it becomes automatic without needing "to switch it on". Most people in this world initially fake confidence. They'll also fake plenty of other behaviors, because the truth is that most people are rather gullible about how we perceive another person behavior.

And Alcohol is a terrible thing. Enjoy it for yourself, but never use it to gain confidence or whatever frame you desire. I never drink when I'm out being sociable... and I've met very few people who were as good as they thought they were while even remotely tipsy or drunk. It's just an awful crutch.

26-07-2018 09:10AM

shakeitoff wrote: »

Introversion is a pretty much death sentence when it comes to women

The stereotype of the mumbling introvert afraid of his own shadow is. But then that's a Hollywood stereotype. It doesn't have to be you.

Accept that you are unique, and you have the ability to be whoever you want to be. Stop accepting other peoples labels which put you into a box. They don't know you. You've never been studied by a host of psychologists doing research. All these psychological terms seek to describe the masses. Not you.

So why limit yourself?

shakeitoff · 26-07-2018 10:00AM

I'm not introverted tbh but every guy I know who is introverted struggles with women

26-07-2018 11:03AM

shakeitoff wrote: »

I'm not introverted tbh but every guy I know who is introverted struggles with women

Whereas, every guy I know struggles with women...

Options. Self-development. Personal growth. Thankfully, we're putting behind this idea that you're stuck the way you're born or the way you developed in your teens. There are plenty of options for self-improvement now. It's a pity that many men don't take advantage of these options.

erudec · 26-07-2018 05:54PM

Pug160 wrote: »

A question for the guys who are in the same boat: how do you think you'll approach this subject if and when you do meet someone and decide to take it further? Will you be blunt about it or try to tackle it in an ambiguous way? In other words, give politician type answers. Obviously, most of us are fairly mature minded and don't want to deal with it in an immature way, or do anything that would compromise our morality. But most of us are also aware that we are outliers and that this will be seen as a big red flag to many women. So it does leave us with a conundrum. It's not all doom and gloom of course, and there is no reason anybody in the same position can't overcome it. But to put this into some kind of perspective, some women would probably be more shocked that a man had never been in a relationship by a certain age, than she would be if he told her he had a criminal record or something like that.

For me, it's a kind of ''cross that bridge when I come to it'' sort of thing. I don't really know what I'll do.

Bear in mind that it's pretty likely she's in the same boat. For every fella in your position, there's also a girl with the same story.

You could be straight about your lack of comfort in discussion of your previous love life. You could say "let's not talk about our romantic pasts until we've known each other for a few months"

By that point, it's likely she's already decided she likes you enough to stay. But if you let it loose in the early days while she's still in the "am I dating an axe murderer? Will my photo be on the cover of those grotty women's magazines under a 'nightmare ordeal' headline?" phase, it might cause her to feel jittery.

Any of you never had a relationship?

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