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Any of you never had a relationship?
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17-06-2018 8:48pm#1
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I could probably write a 500 pages essay on this subject, but this ain't the place to look for literary fame
As many said already, regardless of cultural and peer pressure a number of us (that includes men and women alike) simply aren't built for the whole "suburban house, garden and 2.7 children" thing.
At 37, I've had about 2 meaningful relationships (more like 1.5, but that's a different story for another day) and well, to me nothing beats waking up on a Saturday morning knowing you can do anything you want anytime you like. No "places to be", kids to bring to football practice and so on. If I want to start the car and drive aimlessly until sundown, I can. If I want to sleep all day, I can. You get the picture, I guess.
Again, I have to restrain myself here - TD;DR - don't beat yourself, if you find the prospect of a relationship and all that it encompasses (saturday afternoons at the shopping center, "having" to go for a "walk on the beach" because it's sunny and so on) it's because, most likely, you actually don't enjoy this stuff. And that's entirely ok.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Obviously I have to be careful not to come across as "bitter" but I have noticed similar to what was pointed out earlier in the thread, women outside of Ireland seem a lot more willing to give me (and some others) a chance.
I don't think it's about bitterness, although I suppose some people might be from bad experiences. However, every Irish guy I know who has lived in Ireland and abroad, say that dating in Ireland is difficult. Massive generalisations now.....
Irish women expect more from men, than what they themselves provide in dating. In other countries, many women will meet you halfway, but Irish women expect you to go the whole 9 yards yourself...
Which is fine when you're confident in your appearance, attitude etc. but it's a very steep learning curve to get to that point. Many Irish guys naturally get into that "zone", or they meet someone early in life and settle down pretty quickly.When I go abroad I get more Tinder matches in a couple of days than I get over several months in Ireland.
Population is key with online apps. Ireland's population is rather small, compared to most other countries and the options are very slim.I think I caused some of my own issues.
We all do... however, we also react to the environment we are in, and our interactions with the people we meet. While it's very important to take personal responsibility, don't assume 100% of it. It's healthy to assign some negatives to other people too.I've actually still never slept with a girl from my home county which I find amusing. :P
I hadn't either until recently. 0 -
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I don't know what they expect tbh. Well, I do to some extent. It's really funny seeing mates at the start of relationships and seeing just how "Be yourself" is the biggest BS advice of all time. :pac:Deleted User wrote: »I don't think it's about bitterness, although I suppose some people might be from bad experiences. However, every Irish guy I know who has lived in Ireland and abroad, say that dating in Ireland is difficult. Massive generalisations now..... Irish women expect more from men, than what they themselves provide in dating. In other countries, many women will meet you halfway, but Irish women expect you to go the whole 9 yards yourself...
Which is fine when you're confident in your appearance, attitude etc. but it's a very steep learning curve to get to that point. Many Irish guys naturally get into that "zone", or they meet someone early in life and settle down pretty quickly.
It's not just down to that, I'll swipe right on literally 10 thousand in Ireland and will get single digit matches. Within a day of being elsewhere (including small cities, like smaller than Cork) I'll be chatting to a few. I'll send hundreds of messages on other sites and get maybe 5 replies and most of them will be to say they know me or someone I know.Population is key with online apps. Ireland's population is rather small, compared to most other countries and the options are very slim.We all do... however, we also react to the environment we are in, and our interactions with the people we meet. While it's very important to take personal responsibility, don't assume 100% of it. It's healthy to assign some negatives to other people too.
Some people it's all their own fault and some it's everyone else's fault, I'll let you guess which group is which. :P I'm under no illusions about myself, I'm fat and bald and not particularly good-looking. Although one thing I've learned is that the "Men are superficial, women aren't" thing is one of the biggest lies going. I unfortunately believed it for a very long time.0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59144
It is a skill IMHO. We have the basic potentials in socialisation out of the box and like anything else some will be better at it than others, but how adept or comfortable we are as adults is mostly down to practice. This usually happens, or the basic childhood stuff is built upon in adolescence. If someone misses this for whatever reason then adult social stuff can be bloody difficult. If you're "practicing" at 15 and being a bit awkward even daft, it's pretty much expected of you. You're 15. Just like parents don't expect their baby to start running before they got crawling and falling down a lot down first. Now at 25 or 30... Someone who misses this socialisation period can come across as a socially awkward adult, who is crawling and falling down a lot while their peers are walking. I have found that people tend to be quite unsympathetic to men and women like that. They can get the "oh he/she's odd" and that's their label.ancapailldorcha wrote: »Just never happened for me.
I get the feeling like dating is a skill not unlike how small children learn the fundamentals of human interaction by being among others in the same boat at an early age.
This goes double for men in the romantic sphere. Because as I noted before men are supposed to be a) the active ones, or at least know when to be active and b) socially aware enough to understand social and romantic signals. Which makes good sense. Women are more physically vulnerable so someone who doesn't seem to get social cues and comes across as a "bit off" is an understandable red flag. Men are going to be less threatened by that and shyness can even be seen as a positive trait in women and her being passive is less an issue anyway.
Maybe the experiences of men who go off abroad and find far more success might simply be down to the fact that being outside your country gives them more confidence and freedom to practice that phase they missed out on. Language barriers can help here because if two people aren't fluent in each other's lingo there's already an awkwardness in the mix, but an "acceptable" one and one that can mask others. There's also the novelty factor going on. And the meme of "foreign women are [insert positive traits here] and our women are [insert negative traits here]" thing which adds to confidence and is also heavy on the selection bias. EG Irish guy gets the bums rush from Irish woman, his goto answer might be "that's Irish women for you", whereas if he thinks that say Polish women are "nicer" he'll see the same interaction as an outlier and that's not what Polish women are generally like.
Plus I might be inclined to believe that whole foreign women thing if I hadn't personally heard so many blokes from so many countries say the exact same thing. I've heard Italians say it, Spaniards, Poles, Russians, Nigerians, Afghans, Americans, Brits, Brazilians, Chinese and so forth. It's right up there with "our politicians are all crooks" as a cultural thing(though I would be more inclined to believe the latter). I've noted women don't tend to buy into this nearly so much, at least vocally. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59144
You don't tend to hear women say "foreign men are [insert positive traits here] and our men are [insert negative traits here]" nearly so much, or at least I've never heard it to nearly the same degree or with the same level of detail that I've heard it from men from different countries. Now given that men having a preference for and going out with "foreign" women are obviously finding such women, but like I say I've heard very few women doing the same, at least in Ireland and Europe in general. I did see it back in the 90's where women from the former Soviet states were actively looking for men from outside of that, but that was more down to more choice and economics.Deleted User wrote: »Can you expand on that? I don't quite get your meaning..
In the end men and women overwhelmingly tend to end up with partners from the same cultural, economic and geographical background. Even in more multicultural nations that still tends to hold true.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59144
Make me feel old ya prick. :mad:Deleted User wrote: »I'm a bit younger than you and hear it constantly from women.:D Maybe it is a generational thing B? Sounds like it. I never heard it myself and I'd know and have known a fair few women younger than me. Sure I heard the "oh I like a bit of Italian" kinda thing with women mates having a chat, but it was more a jokey conversational thing than anything reflected in choices they actively made. Whereas I have known a fair percentage of men who actively sought relationships with non Irish women and one Spanish guy who "avoided" Spanish women and two Italian lads who actively preferred non Italian women, one was mad into Irish Women™. Small sample group to be fair.
ehhh. Really? Yep, I'm old, or you have way more interesting women mates.That and the black gangbang fetish. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Does that make me weird in the convential sense....probably. Do I care? Nope.
Fifty years ago? Almost definitely (although bachelors were always a thing, but rarely really mentioned).
Now, though, I'm not so sure. I know quite a few people of both genders who haven't settled down with someone (marriage or serious relationship) and they're in their late 30s/40s. Admittedly, most are married to their careers, or passions (sports, traveling, etc) but still... and then there's a developing culture where it's acceptable to be single. Many Asian countries, like Japan, have actually turned hostile towards formal relationships, and I could see similar happening in parts of Europe (considering the rise of feminism, or inequalities in marriage).
So, not weird. Not the average, but hardly weird. 0 -
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You don't tend to hear women say "foreign men are [insert positive traits here] and our men are [insert negative traits here]" nearly so much
I have heard exactly that plenty of times; Especially from Irish women towards Irish men. When it comes to foreigners, it really depends - certain nationalities are exactly the same if not worse (e.g. ladies from "former Soviet block" countries DO tend to call their own countrymen all sorts of bad names), others nationalities will instead seem more or less xenophobic - even if they live here, they actively seek men from either their own country, or one they deem "good enough" - the list of which changes depending on the woman's nationality (usually restricted to culturally similar countries e.g. Italy + Spain + Argentina).
Being blunt and unapologetic, the vast majority of the complaints I hear from Irish and foreign women about Irish men revolve around a handful of easily amendable things:
1. Drinking culture;
2. Stupid / laddish behaviour mostly built around #1 (e.g. "I got so drunk last night!" talk);
3. Wearing fcuking GAA jerseys everywhereNow given that men having a preference for and going out with "foreign" women are obviously finding such women, but like I say I've heard very few women doing the same, at least in Ireland and Europe in general. I did see it back in the 90's where women from the former Soviet states were actively looking for men from outside of that, but that was more down to more choice and economics.
It is indeed true there are actually studies that prove how in terms of partner choice, women tend to stick to "safe & known", preferring local men for a number of real, measurable advantages - networking and support above all.
Men, on the other hand, are way more likely to be swayed by the "exotic" aspect of a foreign woman.professore wrote: »It's DEFINITELY easier with non Irish women. Most DEFINITELY not confirmation bias. An average Irish woman would NEVER give you any signals she's interested unless you are in the top 5% in her head. Also many are very puritanical and ultra sensitive and have no idea how to flirt. Or maybe that's just because they aren't attracted, as a hot foreign man can say anything to them. I guess you are attracted to difference, apparently gingers are swimming in women in Italy and Spain.
Literally had more flirting in half an hour with a Spanish woman recently than I've had in my whole life with Irish women. And it was only fun as I'm married to a Belgian woman. Very sad.
I have to agree on the part that there are definitely differences; I am actually in the "mirror universe" as in I'm a foreigner living in Ireland and even I can see there are some valid points made.
But let me get this straight: a lot the differences and issues are cultural, and in many cases are actually initiated by men; From only trying to approach women when insanely drunk, to being exceedingly insistent and having no standards (hence creating the "why pick this guy, someone better will come along"), to approaching girls in groups, which is normally a surefire recipe for being laughed off and/or insulted, the catalog is vast.
Certainly there is also an issue on the attitude on the other side; It's unfair to assume anybody approaching you on a night's out to be drunk beyond belief; Also, it's perfectly understandable to politely "tell off" someone you don't like but it's not to act annoyed, offended or insulting - you are in a "social" place afterall, and you can't really blame somebody for trying to talk to you.0 -
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shakeitoff wrote: »How much of you just aren't attractive to girls though? Wanting your own freedom but playing the field is different than struggling to get women's attention. I'm handsome but girls don't seem to care. Seems they prefer uglier guys with gregarious 'alpha' personalities than pretty/handsome guy who is kinda meek.
Well... in Ireland, I was told I wasn't attractive (although my mother said I was gorgeous). I was tall, skinny, with no muscle mass. My face is kinda long, with a rather large nose. By Irish standards I'm not terribly attractive.
But here's the thing. Through actual dating experiences.... In France, I am physically attractive. In Italy, I am physically attractive. In the US, I'm just okay. In China, I'm a sexy beast.
Different cultures have different standards. Personally, I'm not in the slightest bit attracted to most Irish women. It's not even a reaction to their attitude to me. There were times in my teens when I wondered if I was gay, because the few Irish women I did find attractive were so at odds with what was popular. Irelands' population is so low as to limit your choice, especially if you're outside Dublin, but even in Dublin, your options are limited.
As for personality, that can be developed by your own choices, and exploration. I don't use my physical attractiveness to be with women... I use my personality, knowledge and general charm... There are women who focus on physical appearance over that of personality.. just as there's men who do the same. Women brag all the time that they're more emotional, and more interested in personality, but most of that is spin. It's human nature to be interested in the physical. It just depends how important that is to you.
lastly... being meek. It's dating suicide. Practice being more confident. Most people are faking it anyway, and if you do it enough, it'll simply become automatic.0 -
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shakeitoff wrote: »Interesting. Do you think there's that big of a difference between France and Ireland though? Are good looks not universal?
What consists of good looks though? France with a larger population means that there's more variety as to what constitutes being attractive.
Let me put it this way. This is pure guesswork though. While there are the women who go for the muscular gorgeous guys, or the rugged types, French movies/media have been showing the skinny guy in romantic movies for decades. There's more exposure in French culture for a variety of men to be deemed attractive.
What I would say is that I was far more successful in France than in Ireland, even to the point where French women would approach me in cafes, or bars to meet for romantic purposes. Sure there were some who just wanted to be friends, but they were a minority compared to the whole.
As for is there a big difference? yes, I would say there is. I can't really explain why though, without offending every Irish woman.. 0 -
Deleted User wrote: »What consists of good looks though? France with a larger population means that there's more variety as to what constitutes being attractive.
Let me put it this way. This is pure guesswork though. While there are the women who go for the muscular gorgeous guys, or the rugged types, French movies/media have been showing the skinny guy in romantic movies for decades. There's more exposure in French culture for a variety of men to be deemed attractive.
What I would say is that I was far more successful in France than in Ireland, even to the point where French women would approach me in cafes, or bars to meet for romantic purposes. Sure there were some who just wanted to be friends, but they were a minority compared to the whole.
As for is there a big difference? yes, I would say there is. I can't really explain why though, without offending every Irish woman..
What kinda guys are attractive in Ireland? Guys like Conor Murray seem to be what is deemed conventionally attractive here among masses. Big robust skull, strong facial bones, darkish features. I'd imagine pretty boy look isn't that popular in Ireland, take the Patrice character from The Inbetweeners episode for example. I don't think Irish women like that type of look in general.0 -
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