So according to an article in the Indo AGS noticed the boot was open, immediately spotted the bag and contents had fallen out, but were unable to "turn the car in traffic" before a woman picked it up and "made off" with it.

Begs the questions:

1. Did the blue flashy things on the roof of the car not work where they could just stop?
2. Was there no sense of urgency to recover the bag that they chose to drive around to get it instead of stopping the car and walking back to it (they say they saw the woman pick it up)
3. Was there no one outside the station that noticed the bag falling out?

Its seems a CYA exercise instead of just putting their hands up and saying ""We fecked up". I mean in all honesty, calling in Audi technicians to examine the boot for faults. Jesus wept. Blame anything or anyone bar the person at fault.

If you were of the trusting nature and made allowances the some of all of what they say is true it still highlights some faults.

1. A firearm and ammo, TOGETHER, in a bag, in the boot.
2. Incompetence of the members to recover it before a lady ON FOOT "made off" with it.
3. Failure in procedures to secure it before leaving/setting off.

They will point to legally held firearm owners and punish us for the actions of criminals (the pistol ban of 2008, the restricted SI, CS Healy's words on "stolen guns", etc) yet in the half dozen instances of firearm related foolery, incompetence, suicide, etc. its been a Garda involved in each case.

Some of you might think it's sticking the boot in, well perhaps it is to an extent, but whenever the opportunity arises for DoJ/AGS to do the same to us (except their version usually involves a ban of some sort) they don't hesitate citing "public safety".

Panjandrums wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I am not discussing the causes, i'm discussing the consequences which in the short term is of more importance.

The FACTS so far are AGS dropped a fully automatic weapon and ammunition from their care and failed to recover it. None of that is in dispute. AGS have released a statement saying exactly this. Given they knew what was in the bag i fail to understand why they did not hit the brakes, jump out of the motor and run back to retrieve the bag. IOW do everything possible.

The causes which led to this are yet to be investigated and so far we only have the official press release which will NEVER say "we fecked up, sorry". The risk AGS run is when they hold firearm owners to such a high standard which, as Sparks mentioned above, includes recommending that we [the shooting community] mirror the professionalism and conscientious behaviour of AGS is that when they mess up in a way the shooting community does not they are held to account as we would be.

As for this:

Panjandrums wrote:

Describing suicide by Gardai using their weapon as "firearm foolery" is inappropriate."

Don't bastaridze my words and if you don't understand something, ask. I said:

Cass wrote:

.................yet in the half dozen instances of firearm related foolery, incompetence, suicide, etc.

Note the comma after each word to indicate a new topic/cause.

In case you don't know when i refer to foolery i mean this, when i refer to incompetence i mean this, and when i refer to suicide i mean this.

Once again i draw your attention to the moral outrage at only one specific point in all i wrote. Not once have you made a valid or logical point in rebuttal preferring instead to rely on "won't someone think of the children" argument which holds no weight with me.

If you point to anything i said, show how i'm wrong or how you believe i'm wrong with facts and/or stats then i'm more than happy to listen and discuss. I'm also as happy to admit i'm wrong if shown i am. I won't however be pulled into a defensive position on one single point in everything i wrote because of your perceived outrage that has no basis other than ability to generate "likes".

@ Panjandrums - DO NOT start PM-ing me.

IF you have something to say, say it on thread where the discussion is. As i've said three times now if you insist on calling me names, making derogatory remarks and bastardising what i say then have the courage of your convictions and state it on thread. I will not reply to PMs trying to continue this debate in private.

I made no insult towards any Garda, least of all one that committed suicide. I pointed out the FACT that there is an alarmingly high rate of suicide among AGS. As this is not the personal issues forum or even close to the appropriate forum to discuss the causes of this i have not done so, however that will not stop me from mentioning the fact that AGS said pistol owners were at higher risk of suicide because they had access to handguns. There is, and remains, no proof to support this and pointing out that of the last few suicides involving a handgun were actually committed by members of AGS is not an insult. It is, again, a FACT (albeit a tragic one)

You seem to be confusing my criticism of AGS with a personal attack. Its not. I'm a firm supporter of the men and women that serve, but i do take issue with the upper echelon and the policies they have set over the years most of which i'm assuming you have no concept about [i highly doubt you're a firearm owner]. I can make the distinction between a personal attack and a professional criticism, but it seems you are unable to fathom that difference.

If you read my remarks, ALL OF THEM, as anything other than a statement of fact then you are seeking to find insult were none exists in a bid to continue to play the emotive card due to a lacking counter argument.

Lastly deleting your posts from the thread is not a sign of respect. Its a continuation of the fake moral outrage you are trying to show, coupled with your inability to form a coherent reply. The reason you are failing is there is nothing to be outraged about. No one else has taken my statement of fact as a personal criticism about anyone involved. No one else has taken issue with that one point in all of what i've said, that you find so abhorrent, as it's simply another fact.

So as i said above it's a a self serving exercise, you initiated. As of now, i'm done with you.