So who's going to see the Pope?

Canis Lupus · 25-06-2018 11:06am

Florence Harsh Iceberg wrote: »

Dunno.

I was chatting to a young lad in work recently who said he was going to Krakow, Poland.. Now I fvcking LOVE Krakow so got to telling him what a lovely place it is, the people are great, cheap beers, Auschwitz etc

Then he tells me he's been there before, with the Catholic Youth Council ~ I nearly lost my sh*t. I actually thought he was messing.

A few tours of duty to places where Muslims, Jews and Christians are slaughtering each other in equal measure and all in the name of their own particular God and he might learn.. (we're soldiers btw).

I take hope that in every census atheism is shown to be on the rise and christianity taking a plunge. Change happens slowly I guess but if you jumped back 50 years and told someone what Ireland today would be like they'd laugh you out of the place and say a decade of the rosary for you.

Belief aside though it appalls me watching people getting a hard on for the head of the organisation that has done such terrible terrible things to Ireland and many other countries. It's pretty pathetic if you ask me to welcome the him with open arms.

Ulysses Gaze · 25-06-2018 11:06am

5starpool wrote: »

One thing I have never really gotten about this praying lark is that when something good happens, it's thanks god and "I prayed that would happen, he listened" stuff, and when something bad happens "it's god's test". Do people really believe that there is a god out there who micromanages lives and decides to occasionally intervene and make Mary pass her leaving cert, or John recover from a heart attack?

Whatever about believing in eternal salvation and an afterlife and so on, that's one thing and is pure faith in something. I can respect that (even if I can't understand it). Thinking though that any sort of prayer for action on something can or would have any sort of influence or something though is the epitome of wishful thinking and just ridiculous.

Why the God of the Abrahamic faiths anyway? Why not worship the Greek deities?

They pre-exist the Abrahamic gods by a couple of thousand years.
We have many tomes that extol their divine intervention.
And how about the Gods of India?

Religion as George Carlin would say "Pure Bull****"

Mint Sauce · 25-06-2018 11:06am

5starpool wrote: »

Who attempted to charge him for blasphemy? Someone on social media saying someone should be charged isn't anyone trying to charge him. I assume only the guards (and maybe some other authorities, I don't know) can charge anyone.

Maybe I picked it up wrong, but there were certainly comments that he should have been charged, how seriously they were taken, or acted on, I dont know.

Either way, it would have been absurd if they were.

Skylinehead · 25-06-2018 11:09am

kuntboy wrote: »

How disrespectful to those of the Catholic faith. Would you be so to those of other certain faiths, I wonder. You wouldn't dare. How cowardly.

Mods please ban this bigot.

No. And watch the personal abuse please.

MarkY91 · 25-06-2018 11:10am

I'm not going as I'm an atheist and generally couldn't give a ****e. But I got tickets for my ma and my girlfriend who said for months they want to go.

Mint Sauce · 25-06-2018 11:11am

Florence Harsh Iceberg wrote: »

Ah, he's on a wind up. I wasn't taking him serious at all.

I think he is just doing that thing, we are not allowed to accuse people of on here.

Whilst some posters may not agree, the same as many dont appear to agree with me, at least you are producing an arguement. He's not.

Mint Sauce · 25-06-2018 11:12am

MarkY91 wrote: »

I'm not going as I'm an atheist and generally couldn't give a ****e. But I got tickets for my ma and my girlfriend who said for months they want to go.

Are names and emails on the tickets? Hope you put one of theirs on them.

iguana · 25-06-2018 11:12am

I'll be going to protest the fuçking motherfuçker.

super_furry · 25-06-2018 11:14am

Keep foreign deities and their spokesmen out of Ireland.

An Dagda 2018.

valoren · 25-06-2018 11:14am

5starpool wrote: »

One thing I have never really gotten about this praying lark is that when something good happens, it's thanks god and "I prayed that would happen, he listened" stuff, and when something bad happens "it's god's test". Do people really believe that there is a god out there who micromanages lives and decides to occasionally intervene and make Mary pass her leaving cert, or John recover from a heart attack?

Whatever about believing in eternal salvation and an afterlife and so on, that's one thing and is pure faith in something. I can respect that (even if I can't understand it). Thinking though that any sort of prayer for action on something can or would have any sort of influence or something though is the epitome of wishful thinking and just ridiculous.

On micro managing.

A neighbor of ours died at a young age. He was 40. We went to the Funeral and I hadn't been to mass for years. The priest in his homily(?) was telling the crowd that; The choirs of heaven are singing today, welcoming our dear Jim, into their arms.

It was stated with such conviction that this actually happened. I spent the rest of the mass thinking about this choir.

Is there just one choir?
Do you have to audition?
Is heaven littered with auditonees who failed and are disgruntled?
Is there a schedule every day considering someone dies every few seconds?
etc etc etc

Imagine me asking the Priest such questions. He'd look at you like you were insane. If you pushed for an answer you'd be deemed a trouble maker but you'd simply be wanting to understand why he would say something with such conviction. Pushed further he'd have said it was to comfort the grieving family. Say that this was a false comfort and it is insulting to lie to them then you become a source of trouble.

In the past you never asked questions. Before people used some common sense and realized the whole thing is nonsense then the deflective accusation would have been that it was the devil who was tempting you and your faith. Essentially, by virtue of asking questions it was implied you were in league with the 'Devil' who was trying to tempt you away from salvation. In effect, this 'devil' was just a ruse to prevent people from engaging their brains and scare them away from asking probing questions or from looking for some kind of explanation.

padd b1975 · 25-06-2018 11:14am

Emmet Stagg and his pals will have to make alternative arrangements.

RobertKK · 25-06-2018 11:15am

If you want to go you want to go, if you don't you don't. I don't think it is necessary to try and make little of the events just because one is holding personal issues with the church.
The Pope will be visiting the Capuchins in Dublin who feed the hungry, will be visiting prisoners in jail and I expect people who were abused by the church.
So many people on their high moral ground about not going, so what you don't want to go. I won't be going either but I have seen the Pope before anyway so I don't feel the need to again.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 25-06-2018 11:20am

RobertKK wrote: »

I have seen the Pope before anyway so I don't feel the need to again.

Where you touched by the Pope?.

I mean spiritually of course :pac:

o1s1n · 25-06-2018 11:21am

RobertKK wrote: »

If you want to go you want to go, if you don't you don't. I don't think it is necessary to try and make little of the events just because one is holding personal issues with the church.
The Pope will be visiting the Capuchins in Dublin who feed the hungry, will be visiting prisoners in jail and I expect people who were abused by the church.
So many people on their high moral ground about not going, so what you don't want to go. I won't be going either but I have seen the Pope before anyway so I don't feel the need to again.

It's important to question events that cost millions of euro of taxpayers money.

Mint Sauce · 25-06-2018 11:23am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"Free" with a suggestion to make a donation to cover "expenses".

Still free though. Was tempted to donate, but then thought I am only going to see him, not to donate to the church or an organisation. I see the donate icon on the website, the same as I see the church plate the odd time I go. Give if you want, dont if you dont.

gctest50 · 25-06-2018 11:24am

5starpool wrote: »

One thing I have never really gotten about this praying lark is that when something good happens, it's thanks god and "I prayed that would happen, he listened" stuff, and when something bad happens "it's god's test". Do people really believe that there is a god out there who micromanages lives and decides to occasionally intervene and make Mary pass her leaving cert, or John recover from a heart attack?

Whatever about believing in eternal salvation and an afterlife and so on, that's one thing and is pure faith in something. I can respect that (even if I can't understand it). Thinking though that any sort of prayer for action on something can or would have any sort of influence or something though is the epitome of wishful thinking and just ridiculous.

can be explained easily with the help of multimeeeeedia :

RobertKK · 25-06-2018 11:27am

o1s1n wrote: »

It's important to question events that cost millions of euro of taxpayers money.

Events that get worldwide coverage and bring in tourists to the country.
Hotels in Dublin will be full, restaurants will be doing extra business, transport will be making more money, one can be a Debbie Downer and only see the negative side.
Imagine how good Ireland will look if we are getting similar weather to this week.
The church is fundraising for the event.

bodice ripper · 25-06-2018 11:30am

I could really do without it. Traffic will be a massive pain in the arse.

whisky_galore · 25-06-2018 11:31am

All tickets gone in 3 hours....we'll be seeing some on DoneDeal shortly...

Bubbaclaus · 25-06-2018 11:32am

RobertKK wrote: »

If you want to go you want to go, if you don't you don't. I don't think it is necessary to try and make little of the events just because one is holding personal issues with the church.
The Pope will be visiting the Capuchins in Dublin who feed the hungry, will be visiting prisoners in jail and I expect people who were abused by the church.
So many people on their high moral ground about not going, so what you don't want to go. I won't be going either but I have seen the Pope before anyway so I don't feel the need to again.

I would hope that being against a mass cover up of child abuse that went through the very highest levels of the church and still unresolved to this day is not simply "holding personal issues against the church".

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2018 11:35am

o1s1n wrote: »

It's important to question events that cost millions of euro of taxpayers money.

The event itself isn't costing the exchequer anything. The event will bring in far more revenue for the exchequer than the cost of providing security for a visiting dignitary, pretty much the same way it costs to provide security for any visiting dignitary. In short - the visit by the Pope will pay for itself many times over.

I don't know if I'll go, I was intending on going, but there are far too many people determined to make sure nobody should get to enjoy themselves.

5starpool · 25-06-2018 11:37am

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why don't the trendy atheists understand that some people need the idea of God to help them in life? Instead of constantly sneering at them, why not respect that. I don't believe in God but I can't join the new atheist mob. For example, I wouldn't have the arrogance to sneer at a mother who prays every night that she will see her dead child in another life. Or I wouldn't scoff at the local prayer group who visit the sick and elderly every evening. Unfortunately I just don't possess that level of arrogance.

Who scoffed or sneered at anything? You making up what my attitude to this is, is far more arrogant and assuming than anything I did. I don't understand it. There is no logic whatsoever to it. That is what I said. Blind faith in 'something' is fine and up to people themselves, but the individual aspects of this that people choose to ascribe to god but deny for other things as 'free will' or whatever, is in no way understandable to me.

Bubbaclaus · 25-06-2018 11:37am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don't know if I'll go, I was intending on going, but there are far too many people determined to make sure nobody should get to enjoy themselves.

That sounds a bit like the Catholic Church to me.

JustAThought · 25-06-2018 11:38am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"Free" with a suggestion to make a donation to cover "expenses".

Yes - but with a guarantee that if you chose to make no donation that you would still get your ticket. I chose to made no donation (which I feel guilty about) but still immeduately was confirmed all the tickets I asked for.Free of charge.

wexie · 25-06-2018 11:40am

JustAThought wrote: »

I chose to made no donation (which I feel guilty about)

I wouldn't worry, I'd imagine you'll have plenty of opportunity to donate on the day

RobertKK · 25-06-2018 11:41am

whisky_galore wrote: »

All tickets gone in 3 hours....we'll be seeing some on DoneDeal shortly...

They are non transferable tickets and it was said the organisers and the Gardai would be involved if the person with the ticket is not the person who bought the ticket.
Maybe it is for security purposes, they do have so much security in Rome due to ISIS saying they want to murder him and want to attack that city.

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 11:44am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It'll be packed. There's still plenty of old folk about. Another generation or so and the Pope will be needing to pay people to show up however. Shame I won't be around to see it though.

actually you are wrong .. About the future..

Mint Sauce · 25-06-2018 11:44am

whisky_galore wrote: »

All tickets gone in 3 hours....we'll be seeing some on DoneDeal shortly...

Knock ones yes. But you can still get in the queuing system on the website for the Phoenix Park.

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 11:45am

hawkelady wrote: »

No , I don’t subscribe to some old man wearing a table cloth who’s company hands around a basket for the unwashed to put money in ! Twice.
It’ll be interesting to see how many turn up to this farce

Knock is sold out!

FFred · 25-06-2018 11:45am

I am going because He gives good mass…he really knows how to work the altar.
Look at that chalice work.....effortless...

25-06-2018 11:47am

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I would hope that being against a mass cover up of child abuse that went through the very highest levels of the church and still unresolved to this day is not simply "holding personal issues against the church".

And do you have these issues with the general population, various councils/organisations and the government who knew many of the "dodgy" priests and did nothing about it? It's incredibly naive to believe that only the priests were involved in the child abuse and subsequent cover-ups over decades. But, nah, you'll focus on the Church and heap all the blame on it, and by the manner of your posts, everybody who has served in the Church.

There are millions of people who have served the Church faithfully, and without any connection to the child abuse. You, and others here, with their sweeping statements throw dirt all over them.

I have an Aunt who is a nun. She's been a nun since she was 15, trained as a nurse, served as a missionary abroad, returned to Ireland working with the poor, and has provided a more help to others than you have. Your stance on the child abuse labels her just as much as anyone else.

I do understand the outrage about the Child abuse, but can we have some maturity about it? Be a little bit more reasonable and stop including millions in the behavior of a minority.

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 11:48am

valoren wrote: »

I'm more interested in the financial aspect to this.

How much is the government paying out to facilitate this? Into the millions no doubt.
Will the money people are charged for tickets be used to re-reimburse the state coffers? I doubt it.
It would be more palatable and 'christian' I guess if the face value of the ticket would be donated to local charities.
I'm indifferent so maybe that will be the case, if so, then Francis touring would be a positive thing.

If not then it's just a money maker. I'd be wondering where the money flows from these tours.
Just another religion where it's core tenet is money making with the false front of love, compassion where calling it out and constructively criticizing it's practices triggers accusations of being edgy, cool or whatever deflective insults are in vogue.

Rome is paying. That was made very public many months ago.

gctest50 · 25-06-2018 11:51am

RobertKK wrote: »

They are non transferable tickets and it was said the organisers and the Gardai would be involved if the person with the ticket is not the person who bought the ticket.
Maybe it is for security purposes, they do have so much security in Rome due to ISIS saying they want to murder him and want to attack that city.

RobertKK wrote: »

ISIS saying they want to murder him

:eek:

I wouldn't be getting front row seats here - what can you do with an ISIS lad who thinks he's off to meet the four and twenty virgins

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 11:53am

RobertKK wrote: »

If you want to go you want to go, if you don't you don't. I don't think it is necessary to try and make little of the events just because one is holding personal issues with the church.
The Pope will be visiting the Capuchins in Dublin who feed the hungry, will be visiting prisoners in jail and I expect people who were abused by the church.
So many people on their high moral ground about not going, so what you don't want to go. I won't be going either but I have seen the Pope before anyway so I don't feel the need to again.

Thank you Robert. Thank you.

I will not be there ; cannot travel these days. My neighbour's family live in Knock so will hear all the news.

And yes, he will do what he can here. Smiling re Brother Kevin at the Capucins.
spent some time with him at Ards and a finer man you could not hope to meet. Would love to meet him again,

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 11:55am

o1s1n wrote: »

It's important to question events that cost millions of euro of taxpayers money.

And again, Rome paid.

yeppydeppy · 25-06-2018 11:55am

Shouldn't we book all the tickets and then not show up?

RobertKK · 25-06-2018 11:57am

gctest50 wrote: »

:eek:

I wouldn't be getting front row seats here - what can you do with an ISIS lad who thinks he's off to meet the four and twenty virgins

It will be airport like security to enter events.

wexie · 25-06-2018 12:00pm

yeppydeppy wrote: »

Shouldn't we book all the tickets and then not show up?

To what point? What would it achieve? Would it improve anything? Will it somehow make anything better?

It'd just be a petty move to deny other people who actually want to go the opportunity to do so. Regardless of their reasons for going.

JustAThought · 25-06-2018 12:01pm

I'll be going and so will my mate - we will be bringing the daughter just like we got the experience and opportunity to be part of a Popes visit when we were children - something that had had a huge oart in our generations memories. We have never had a Pope before who fired bishops and priests for extravagance, who refused to sit in the papal palace but instead chose to live in a humble space, who made such effort to row back on some of the horrifying damage done in previous decades while sticking to his values. No doubt if the Dali Lama (or however you spell it) came the athiests would be flocking in their droves to visit that head of Church. If you dont want to attend just don't - simples - the Church over the past years has a lot to answer to and nobody could stand over what happend - if you don't want to go then don't - but enough of this unfettered and aggressive hate and sneering of all things to do with religion and those that stand up.for their beliefs and values.

Mint Sauce · 25-06-2018 12:01pm

RobertKK wrote: »

It will be airport like security to enter events.

It could be quicker to get through an airport. Between walking from park and rides, queing, then a further walk to the papel cross, its suggesting to allow around three hours, EITHER side of the mass.

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 12:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And do you have these issues with the general population, various councils/organisations and the government who knew many of the "dodgy" priests and did nothing about it? It's incredibly naive to believe that only the priests were involved in the child abuse and subsequent cover-ups over decades. But, nah, you'll focus on the Church and heap all the blame on it, and by the manner of your posts, everybody who has served in the Church.

There are millions of people who have served the Church faithfully, and without any connection to the child abuse. You, and others here, with their sweeping statements throw dirt all over them.
I have an Aunt who is a nun. She's been a nun since she was 15, trained as a nurse, served as a missionary abroad, returned to Ireland working with the poor, and has provided a more help to others than you have. Your stance on the child abuse labels her just as much as anyone else.
I do understand the outrage about the Child abuse, but can we have some maturity about it? Be a little bit more reasonable and stop including millions in the behavior of a minority.

agree in principle but it was NOT a "minority" by any manner of means. For every instance of abuse there were those who knew and did nothing. Like the local man at Letterfrack when a lad escaped and knocked at his door, battered and bruised. The whole town knew what went on there. That man took him back, While another helped a lad.
Anyone who knew and did nothing is implicit in the abuse . As a wise man said, all it takes for evil to flourish is for good folk to stand by and do nothing.

BUT there has to be a time to down weapons and look to the future

JustAThought · 25-06-2018 12:03pm

Beginning to think I might cycle! It will definately be quicker even if its a 50 mile trip!

JupiterKid · 25-06-2018 12:06pm

No, I wont be going as most of the country wont be either. I'm sure the blue rinse brigade will be out in force along with devout Irish No voters and some Poles and Filipinos. The event will get sizable numbers but nowhere near JPII's mega visit in 1979 (which I was at as a 4 year old).

So many still brainwashed by religion and the church. If anything, there seems to be a backlash against athiesm and agnosticism on here. Each to their own. But the church did immense damage to this country.

ohnonotgmail · 25-06-2018 12:07pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Yes - but with a guarantee that if you chose to make no donation that you would still get your ticket. I chose to made no donation (which I feel guilty about) but still immeduately was confirmed all the tickets I asked for.Free of charge.

I never suggested otherwise.

ohnonotgmail · 25-06-2018 12:07pm

wexie wrote: »

I wouldn't worry, I'd imagine you'll have plenty of opportunity to donate on the day

I'd say the sound from the rattling of buckets will be deafening.

jester77 · 25-06-2018 12:08pm

I feel sorry for the people that are so indoctrinated, but hey, it's their life and we in the western world are very fortunate to get to live it as we so please. Hopefully it's a good day for everyone taking part and it passes without incident or some idiots protesting.

ELM327 · 25-06-2018 12:09pm

Me and 1800 others may or may not make the difficult journey south to dublin for this.
But we've booked our coach tickets for sure.

jmayo · 25-06-2018 12:09pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

So free tickets became available this morning for the Popes visit to Knock and The Phoenix Park, with Knock already filling its allocation, he must really say a great Mass.

I'm going, didn't get Knock, but did get Phoenix Park. I'm not an overlly religious person, I pick and choose want I want to believe from the bible, I believe that this life we have is not the end. I dont go to Mass every week, I am the Christmas, Weddings, and Funerals kinda person, might only recieve once a year. I have my morals, and know what is right and wrong.
...
I would like to think those who attend, do repect that its a religious event, and dont protest. If you want to do that, which I do also respect your reasons and want, hopefully thats done during a none religious part of his trip.

Couldn't be ar**ed going to see the last guy that visited Knock in 1979.
My mother went with load of neighbours, but myself and the auld fellow quite happily stayed at home.
Awful fecking day and took me ages to find all the cows in the mist.
Still more fun than sitting around in the drizzle in Knock.
Also really peeved that there was shag all on the telly bar the pope.

I had given up on religion as a kid even though still an altar boy.
Used to get into trouble for discussing Match of the Day at 9 o'clock mass. and my mother wasn't impressed I would sit with all the old lads at mass listening to discussions about silage, hay, the cattlemart.
Basically everything and anything bar religion and God.

Couldn't care if people go to see this guy, just so long as all the terrible cr** perpetrated by the Roman Catholic church is not suddenly conveniently forgotten.

BTW I wonder what locals he will get to share stage?

The two prominent guys from the last time turned out to be quite happy shagging women, fathering and refusing to acknowledge kids all the while they lectured others about morality and family planning :rolleyes:

wexie · 25-06-2018 12:10pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

So many still brainwashed by religion and the church. If anything, there seems to be a backlash against athiesm and agnosticism on here. Each to their own. But the church did immense damage to this country.

I think that's more a backlash against militant atheism, which I can't even get too upset over to be honest.

Absolutely no reason why you can't be an atheist in still be respectful of the fact that some people aren't. I'm not religious in the least but I can still recognize the fact that religion plays in a major part in the lives of a large percentage of the world's population and be respectful of that fact.

Some atheists are like militant vegans : I don't believe and I feel that you shouldn't either...

gctest50 · 25-06-2018 12:10pm

RobertKK wrote: »

gctest50 wrote: »

:eek:

I wouldn't be getting front row seats here - what can you do with an ISIS lad who thinks he's off to meet the four and twenty virgins

It will be airport like security to enter events.

They have a drone unit now

ISIS formally announced its drone operation capabilities in January 2017, with the establishment of a new ‘Unmanned Aircraft of the Mujahideen’ unit, a fleet of modified drones equipped with bombs

So who's going to see the Pope?

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