Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland v Australia - 2nd test, how the expected starting XVs compare.

1…2122232527

Comments

  • #722
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Christy42 wrote: »
    The ref stated Foley's was deliberate. Aka he did not believe he made an attempt to catch it. Surely then it is a yellow? I mean you can believe he tried to catch it but the ref disagrees with you and so can hardly be colouring his decision.

    You're misunderstanding me or I'm not being clear. Foley and Timu threw hands out at a pass that they had no chance of catching so that is a deliberate knock on. Nowhere in the laws does it state a deliberate knock on has to be a yellow card. It can be but it doesn't have to be. It's like any penalty, offside, not releasing, collapsing the scrum, preventing a quick lineout etc the ref can upgrade it to yellow card if he thinks it warrants it.
    So why is it different? Foley knocked it on to stop an overlap and McGrath did to stop the distribution. The only difference I can see is Australia's crazy penalty count which should count against Foley. (Indeed that tends to be the only reason any of your examples would get upgraded.


  • #723
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    shootermacg wrote: »
    I'd be worried if I were Henshaw.
    I really wouldn't. Outside of Murray, Sexton and Furlong I reckon he's the next name on the sheet for Schmidt.

    I wouldn't be shocked if he sits out next week as they continue to work on depth but he's a guaranteed starter in a must win match right now.

    He stepped in at first receiver a number of times yesterday also and did so nicely which is something we haven't seen too often.


  • #724
    Anthracite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Anthracite


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Who is he going to draw?

    Also Foley, Timu and who was the other one?
    I'm guessing he would have run just inside Folau to commit him. A kick ahead by him or Earls would have seen Aus in real trouble.

    But all this is irrelevant. Foley killed an attacking overlap with Australia's third deliberate knock-on, and did not get a card, like the previous two. Which is nuts.

    [edit: on a side note, aside from the fact that he was already beaten by the pass and running at speed in the wrong direction (hence the deliberate knock-on) don't we ignore the player who committed the penalty offence for the rest of the play?]


  • #725
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Anthracite wrote: »
    I'm guessing he would have run just inside Folau to commit him. A kick ahead by him or Earls would have seen Aus in real trouble.

    But all this is irrelevant. Foley killed an attacking overlap with Australia's third deliberate knock-on, and did not get a card, like the previous two. Which is nuts.

    [edit: on a side note, aside from the fact that he was already beaten by the pass and running at speed in the wrong direction (hence the deliberate knock-on) don't we ignore the player who committed the penalty offence for the rest of the play?]

    Folau would slide out and the cover takes down the guy who received the pass.

    Again, Foley, Timu and who was the third?

    No they only remove the offending player from the equation when they are considering a penalty try.


  • #726
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Christy42 wrote: »
    So why is it different? Foley knocked it on to stop an overlap and McGrath did to stop the distribution. The only difference I can see is Australia's crazy penalty count which should count against Foley. (Indeed that tends to be the only reason any of your examples would get upgraded.

    Foley and Timu react to pass thinking intercept. It's not realistic so it's a deliberate knock on. 10 years ago it wouldn't have been a penalty. McGrath was lying on the ground and decided to slap the ball out of Phipps' hands. That's always been a penalty. They are very different. Are all penalties yellow cards in your eyes?


  • Advertisement
  • #727
    Anthracite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Anthracite


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Folau would slide out and the cover takes down the guy who received the pass.

    Again, Foley, Timu and who was the third?

    No they only remove the offending player from the equation when they are considering a penalty try.
    There wasn't a third, or a second. There was Ringrose and Earls against Folau and a free run up the wing. An overlap. We don't need to concern ourselves with the Aus cover or the guys already running in the wrong direction like Foley. An overlap.

    Can we agree there was an overlap?


  • #728
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Christy42 wrote: »
    So why is it different? Foley knocked it on to stop an overlap and McGrath did to stop the distribution. The only difference I can see is Australia's crazy penalty count which should count against Foley. (Indeed that tends to be the only reason any of your examples would get upgraded.

    Foley and Timu react to pass thinking intercept. It's not realistic so it's a deliberate knock on. 10 years ago it wouldn't have been a penalty. McGrath was lying on the ground and decided to slap the ball out of Phipps' hands. That's always been a penalty. They are very different. Are all penalties yellow cards in your eyes?
    Don't put words in my mouth. I very clearly didn't say or suggest that all penalties are yellow cards. In fact I have already stated that many instances only get a yellow card if it is for multiple offences. So I have already answered your question.

    Now can we go back to discussing the incident properly or are you going to pretend I have made some unrelated ridiculous argument?

    Foley knew full well hr was not going to catch that and that he needed to stop it.


  • #729
    shootermacg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Sexton with a terrible cross-field / hail mary kick on the 70th minute. Ended up with us down the other end of the pitch. No sense to those types of kicks.


  • #730
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Anthracite wrote: »
    There wasn't a third, or a second. There was Ringrose and Earls against Folau and a free run up the wing. An overlap. We don't need to concern ourselves with the Aus cover or the guys already running in the wrong direction like Foley. An overlap.

    Can we agree there was an overlap?

    The third deliberate knock on. Foley did one, Timu did one, who did the other one?

    The guys behind Foley are covering across. They're not running in the wrong direction. They have Ringrose covered and Folau has Earls. There is no guaranteed overlap.


  • #731
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    The third deliberate knock on. Foley did one, Timu did one, who did the other one?

    The guys behind Foley are covering across. They're not running in the wrong direction. They have Ringrose covered and Folau has Earls. There is no guaranteed overlap.

    Timu also smashed James Ryan off the ball a few mins after his knock on and coughed up a pen. The ref did his best to keep the Oz lads on the park despite repeated infringements. Watched the game again this morning so I wound myself up all over again. :pac:


  • Advertisement
  • #732
    Anthracite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Anthracite


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    The third deliberate knock on. Foley did one, Timu did one, who did the other one?

    The guys behind Foley are covering across. They're not running in the wrong direction. They have Ringrose covered and Folau has Earls. There is no guaranteed overlap.
    Sigh. I think you've become entrenched in a rather silly position. I'll leave it there. Others can decide for themselves.


  • #733
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Beast of a performance. Everyone played their part. My takeaways.
    RK was on top form and played very well.
    Ringrose is on a different level. He's superb.
    Sexton.... just Sexton.
    Larmour is developing nicely, his fundamentals were very good.
    Scannell was great. Powerful carries and good in the loose.
    Toner just does everything well.
    Earl's is just incredible. Playing out of his mind.
    Henshaw comfortable at 12.
    Conway very unlucky, he will probably miss out next week.
    Murray was also very good. He's a different man inside of Sexton.
    JR is Godly.
    Jordi was way better and very sharp. Think he'll get the call next week.
    Beirne didn't look out of place. I hope he starts next week.
    Stander was good. POM was scary good. Furlong was unbelievable.
    McGrath needs to change his eyes, very easy to identify him!! But he was also up for it.
    Herring is really playing well, if healthy is a real shout for the matchday 23.
    Healy looked hurt and may miss out next week. Porter to lh?
    Leavy was probably carrying a knock. Was not messiah like.
    All in all superb performances. I would switch it up next week. Carberry back in with Marmion.
    Aki at 12, Henderson at 4, Beirne at 5. Toner on the bench. I want to see Conan get a shot. The depth needs to be developed and taking our back ups and letting them have a lash would be worth it in the long run. What a cracking match tho. Pity bout the ref. But you never can rely on any ref! Nigel Owen's had some shockers this year and he's the standard.


  • #734
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Don't put words in my mouth. I very clearly didn't say or suggest that all penalties are yellow cards. In fact I have already stated that many instances only get a yellow card if it is for multiple offences. So I have already answered your question.

    Now can we go back to discussing the incident properly or are you going to pretend I have made some unrelated ridiculous argument?

    Foley knew full well hr was not going to catch that and that he needed to stop it.

    Sorry. Didn't mean to upset you and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to understand your position. Do you believe that a deliberate knock on is meant to always result in a yellow card?

    Because I don't. I explained how the deliberate knock ons were different and therefore resulted in different sanctions.

    I think Foley thought he was going to get an intercept. The fact is neither of us know what he was thinking.


  • #735
    mangobob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭mangobob


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Conway very unlucky, he will probably miss out next week.

    Good post. But re the above, Schmidt seemed to suggest that its just a bruise and Conway should be fine after a rest. Sounds like he will be available for next week.

    Got to feel for Genia though. Thats a massive blow for Oz.


  • #736
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Anthracite wrote: »
    Sigh. I think you've become entrenched in a rather silly position. I'll leave it there. Others can decide for themselves.

    Not entrenched at all. I simply haven't seen a good argument as to why it definitely should have been a yellow card. I've already said it could have been but you have unable to convince me it should have been.

    Also you still haven't said who did the other deliberate knock on. There was Foley's and Timu's. When did the other one happen. I rewatched the match this morning and didn't see it.


  • #737
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Any clips of the Healy Genia collision?


  • #738
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Not entrenched at all. I simply haven't seen a good argument as to why it definitely should have been a yellow card. I've already said it could have been but you have unable to convince me it should have been.

    Also you still haven't said who did the other deliberate knock on. There was Foley's and Timu's. When did the other one happen. I rewatched the match this morning and didn't see it.

    Because they had been warned 5 minutes earlier
    Because it was the 2nd time they had a deliberate knock on penalty

    If a ref gives a warning then he has to follow through on it. The ref didnt. If he deems it deliberate then thats cynical. So it should have been a card


  • #739
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    castie wrote: »
    Any clips of the Healy Genia collision?

    https://twitter.com/RugbyKino/status/1008320182345924608?s=19

    Nothing in it


  • #740
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1008318590695628800?s=19


  • #741
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/RugbyKino/status/1008320182345924608?s=19

    Nothing in it

    You're kidding? He changed direction to block him...I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a citing


  • Advertisement
  • #742
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    umop episdn wrote: »
    You're kidding? He changed direction to block him...I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a citing

    There is nothing in that at all. If that's a citing then why was the australian who tackled an Irish player off the ball last week not cited

    Will the two Aussies who tackled Irish players off the ball yesterday be cited?

    There is absolutely nothing in that clip worthy of a citing


  • #743
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    umop episdn wrote: »
    You're kidding? He changed direction to block him...I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a citing

    It's a bit of cheap shot but it happens all the time. Won't be citing because it wouldn't be card. Maybe a penalty if the officials had seen it at the time. It's only an issue because of the injury.


  • #744
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    It's a bit of cheap shot but it happens all the time. Won't be citing because it wouldn't be card. Maybe a penalty if the officials had seen it at the time. It's only an issue because of the injury.

    If the ref saw that, I'd guess a yellow card would have followed... dunno, it's more than a cheap shot...if you're running by...and drop a shoulder... yeah, that's a cheap one... but when you change direction and run 5m to nail a guy...I'm not so sure.....


  • #745
    shootermacg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Sorry. Didn't mean to upset you and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to understand your position. Do you believe that a deliberate knock on is meant to always result in a yellow card?

    Because I don't. I explained how the deliberate knock ons were different and therefore resulted in different sanctions.

    I think Foley thought he was going to get an intercept. The fact is neither of us know what he was thinking.

    I think what is bothering people about the ref, is, there were 3 deliberate knock-ons by Australia (surely the last one needs a card to send a message regardless of perceived intent).

    On top of this there was deliberate (cynical) infringements by Australia in their own 22, again enough of them to cause any ref to just card someone to send a message. How many off-sides on the 5m line before the ref starts handing out cards?

    I know the Union need to blood new referees and I think it wasn't a terrible game, by the ref. He'll have to manage how his perceived decisions are interpreted by both teams.

    The ref was a bit unlucky with timing, but the message he sent to Ireland was, any infringements will be dealt with severely, meanwhile the message he sent to Australia is anything goes.

    So while there's no way he set out to be, and nobody is questioning the ref's integrity, what he ended up doing is the very definition of inconsistent refereeing.


  • #746
    its_phil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1008318590695628800?s=19

    Said at the time it was Kearney, completely missed Furlong. Class


  • #747
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    umop episdn wrote: »
    If the ref saw that, I'd guess a yellow card would have followed... dunno, it's more than a cheap shot...if you're running by...and drop a shoulder... yeah, that's a cheap one... but when you change direction and run 5m to nail a guy...I'm not so sure.....

    Come off it. That happens about 10 times a match. I'd say it's as likely that Genia hurt himself putting his arm out to break his fall.

    If that gets a citing, I'll be shocked. No citing commissioner or referee in their right mind would see that as a red card and I doubt most would see it as a yellow either.


  • #748
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 43,393 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    umop episdn wrote: »
    You're kidding? He changed direction to block him...I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a citing

    Its absolutely nothing, a very slight body check... And healy could argue that was the line he was running anyway.


  • #749
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Its absolutely nothing, a very slight body check... And healy could argue that was the line he was running anyway.

    Hey, I hope you're right, but I'm a bit nervous about it is all


  • #750
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1008318590695628800?s=19

    Best clear out in recent memory for me was O'Brien against France in 2015 6 nations. Took three lads off the ruck and sat on them.


  • Advertisement
  • #751
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    I think one, if not 2, of the many penalties yesterday against Australia was taking the man out of it off the ball. Won't be a citing.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement