Ireland v Australia - 2nd test, how the expected starting XVs compare.

16-06-2018 11:55PM

Still laughing at Jack McGrath. What a brilliant as$hole.

flatty · 17-06-2018 12:02AM

Billy86 wrote: »

swiwi_ wrote: »

So you won...but the thread is still littered with complaints about the ref Are there any refs at all that Irish fans can endure?? Maybe the French lads seem to get slightly less stick on here is my impression.

Is a deliberate knock on a yellow card, though?

Because he essentially said to Hooper that no cards would be coming for it -just more warnings- by refusing to give any yellows when they kept doing it. About 90 seconds later, Ireland does it and he's up to the TMO before you can blink, busily and almost excitedly trying to find out who it was like a bloodhound sniffing the insides of a bag.

It's one thing to get the calls wrong in the heat of the moment or with how fast things can go. It's another to completely stop a game and make a very conscious and deliberate decision that "the thing I've been letting one team off with again and again despite seeing it (and telling all the players on the field as much) all game has now been done by the opposite team... and you better believe I'm going to hammer them for it!" He had plenty of time to think and reflect on just how wildly and deliberately inconsistent he was being, and carried on doing so anyway.

I shouldn't, but, if people are honest, there was a very irish sounding touch judge in the European final, who did exactly the same to the French side, excitedly and repeatedly informing the referee that they were offside in midfield. He had a critical bearing on the outcome. He may have been correct, but both sides were at it if so.
Irish rugby fans, in fact, sports fans in general are a terrible shower of whingers when they don't get what they want. As bad as any out there (I'm an Irish sports fan, and I find it embarrassing at times)

umop episdn · 17-06-2018 12:03AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still laughing at Jack McGrath. What a brilliant as$hole.

Was he farting Ireland's Call again?

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 12:10AM

Elvisjuice wrote: »

same as cocks **** last week , and he got off scot free

No idea what you're talking about here.

shootermacg · 17-06-2018 12:14AM

flatty wrote: »

I shouldn't, but, if people are honest, there was a very irish sounding touch judge in the European final, who did exactly the same to the French side, excitedly and repeatedly informing the referee that they were offside in midfield. He had a critical bearing on the outcome. He may have been correct, but both sides were at it if so.
Irish rugby fans, in fact, sports fans in general are a terrible shower of whingers when they don't get what they want. As bad as any out there (I'm an Irish sports fan, and I find it embarrassing at times)

Using sweeping generalisations. colouring everyone in an admittedly small country as being some kind of single organism with a single opinion? Am I doing this right?

shootermacg · 17-06-2018 12:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Still laughing at Jack McGrath. What a brilliant as$hole.

Yeah, it'll go down in much the same way as the Handsome Rob in the ruck pic methinks.

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 12:18AM

fitz wrote: »

No complaint about Jack's yellow, that was cynical and stupid, fully deserved.

But on Foley's... context is key.
It wasn't the first Aussie deliberate knock on, and came after a slew of penalties that the ref's warned them would result in a card for persistent infringement.
In isolation, Foley's can be viewed as one of those you see not carded, but there's no defending not giving a card when you take into account the previous infringements and warning.

I haven't rewatched the game so I could be mixing up incidents. Apologies if I am. I remember the ref awarding a penalty to Ireland on around the halfway line and saying to Hooper something like " I warned you about infringing on your line a few minutes ago (before the Furlong try) but now we're seeing infringements out here. It needs to stop." Or something along those lines. Was that the Foley knock down? I do remember at the time thinking they were lucky to not lose someone.

Anthracite · 17-06-2018 12:24AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I haven't rewatched the game so I could be mixing up incidents. Apologies if I am. I remember the ref awarding a penalty to Ireland on around the halfway line and saying to Hooper something like " I warned you about infringing on your line a few minutes ago (before the Furlong try) but now we're seeing infringements out here. It needs to stop." Or something along those lines. Was that the Foley knock down? I do remember at the time thinking they were lucky to not lose someone.

Think that was the one. We were deep but had an overlap on our left until Aussie deliberate knock on number 3 killed it.

Christy42 · 17-06-2018 12:27AM

flatty wrote: »

I shouldn't, but, if people are honest, there was a very irish sounding touch judge in the European final, who did exactly the same to the French side, excitedly and repeatedly informing the referee that they were offside in midfield. He had a critical bearing on the outcome. He may have been correct, but both sides were at it if so.
Irish rugby fans, in fact, sports fans in general are a terrible shower of whingers when they don't get what they want. As bad as any out there (I'm an Irish sports fan, and I find it embarrassing at times)

If you don't know if Racing were at it how do you know both sides were at it?

We discuss player's performances, can the same not be done about refs? Especially as it is an area that world rugby would be involved trying to fix. I doubt they care about Sexton's kicking as much as we do but if the game outpaces what they can get refs to do then they are in serious trouble.

The ref made some big calls and was inconsistent, people are going to complain about it. I missed the Bilbao match but if a judge only concentrated on one side's flaws then that two needs to be addressed. Certainly if Doyle was not considered impartial that would be a major deal.

I am not sure how a ref messing up a completely different match would support your point anyways? Surely it would support those pointing out the issues with refs these days. Most I have seen have tended to saying they have just been muck in general.

shootermacg · 17-06-2018 12:54AM

kuang1 · 17-06-2018 12:59AM

shootermacg wrote: »

There it is.

Edit: It's almost cinematographic perfection how he's centre of shot and in perfect focus.

I was laughing listening to the ref and TMO, because none of the angles were able to show a jersey number, but there was this moment where they both silently acknowledged that it was McGrath's left eye that they were looking at but didn't/couldn't quite say that. Then the TMO goes "Green 17"
If I was Jack I would have been like "that wasn't me...could have been anyone!"

Dave_The_Sheep · 17-06-2018 12:59AM

flatty wrote: »

I shouldn't, but, if people are honest, there was a very irish sounding touch judge in the European final, who did exactly the same to the French side, excitedly and repeatedly informing the referee that they were offside in midfield. He had a critical bearing on the outcome. He may have been correct, but both sides were at it if so.

Except that JP Doyle rode Leinster a LOT harder than he did Racing, if I recall.

OldRio · 17-06-2018 07:33AM

First win for 39 years in Australia. On top of a Grand slam in the Six Nation's.
Life's good. Really good.

LuckyLloyd · 17-06-2018 07:51AM

OldRio wrote: »

First win for 39 years in Australia. On top of a Grand slam in the Six Nation's.
Life's good. Really good.

Halcyon days for Irish rugby.

Chiparus · 17-06-2018 08:42AM

Very interesting how the deliberate foul by McGrath compared to the deliberate foul by the Australians in the first test that resulted in a scrum to Australia and penalty when Murray protested.

Why did the TMO not infrorm the ref of the foul in the first test?

fisgon · 17-06-2018 09:23AM

Anyone got any idea how to watch this game back? I missed it yesterday and would love to see it, but cannot find it anywhere online or TV. I am prepared to pay if necessary.

All there is on Youtube is 3 mins of highlights.

Anthracite · 17-06-2018 09:37AM

fisgon wrote: »

Anyone got any idea how to watch this game back? I missed it yesterday and would love to see it, but cannot find it anywhere online or TV. I am prepared to pay if necessary.

All there is on Youtube is 3 mins of highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS0A7iZT0KE

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 10:22AM

Anthracite wrote: »

Think that was the one. We were deep but had an overlap on our left until Aussie deliberate knock on number 3 killed it.

Rewatched the match. The Foley and Timu knock ons, they were trying to catch the ball but it wasn't realistic that they could so I guess that's why they were just penalties. Yes there was an overlap in the case of Foley but there was also a lot of cover. There was nearly 15 minutes between Furlong scoring and Foley's knock on. During that time the Wallaby discipline improved then there were a couple of penalties culminating in Foley's. The ref then warned Hooper again basically saying its discipline in general rather than just on your line.

The ref was quick on the whistle for the Timu knock on and the off the ball tackle. He could have played advantage. I'd put that down to experience.

A question for any refs on here about the penalty try. If the maul is over the try line, can you collapse it? There's no offside line in the in goal so I was wondering is a maul no longer a maul once it's over the line.

fisgon · 17-06-2018 10:25AM

Anthracite wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS0A7iZT0KE

Much appreciated - not sure how I missed this....

Anthracite · 17-06-2018 10:33AM

This is Australia's third deliberate knock on. Not that Ringrose and Earls would have been through, and Earls likely would have had to beat a single Australian back in a kick chase for a try.

Not worthy of a yellow card? Third one?

shootermacg · 17-06-2018 10:49AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

If the maul is over the try line, can you collapse it? There's no offside line in the in goal so I was wondering is a maul no longer a maul once it's over the line.

Healy was attempting to bring down the maul before the ball had crossed the line. But yeah, no off-sides when over your goal line.

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 11:03AM

Anthracite wrote: »

This is Australia's third deliberate knock on. Not that Ringrose and Earls would have been through, and Earls likely would have had to beat a single Australian back in a kick chase for a try.

Not worthy of a yellow card? Third one?

50:50 for me. Plenty of cover coming across. Not a clear cut yellow but it wouldn't have been a harsh yellow either. If that makes sense.

There was that one, Timu's in the first half, when was the other one? I couldn't find it.

Anthracite · 17-06-2018 11:14AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

50:50 for me. Plenty of cover coming across.

It looks like that, but the image is misleading. Earls is on the 10 metre line, while the Aussie cover is all on the right side of the pitch, probably 20 metres back. The Irish player who was about to receive is in the middle of the pitch. They have a lot of ground to cover.

On top of that, we aren't adjudicating on a penalty try. We are deciding if a third deliberate knock-on killed an Irish attacking opportunity.

shootermacg · 17-06-2018 11:17AM

I'd be worried if I were Henshaw. He's an absolute beast in defence. He's an honest player who brings intense physicality to everything he does.

But unfortunately our best 12 is also our best 10. If you had Sexton's guile and hands at 12, along with Sexton at 10 too

what a world it would be.

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 11:23AM

The last Aussie player (Falou) is about 10 metres from Earls. Has him covered. The Irish player who would have received the pass is covered by several Aussie players. Also Earls is level with him so he would have have had to slow down or stop to get the next pass.

I realise we aren't discussing a penalty try. Like I said it's a 50:50 one for me. If an Irish player got carded in the same situation, most people on here would be calling it a BS call.

Christy42 · 17-06-2018 11:24AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Anthracite wrote: »

Think that was the one. We were deep but had an overlap on our left until Aussie deliberate knock on number 3 killed it.

Rewatched the match. The Foley and Timu knock ons, they were trying to catch the ball but it wasn't realistic that they could so I guess that's why they were just penalties. Yes there was an overlap in the case of Foley but there was also a lot of cover. There was nearly 15 minutes between Furlong scoring and Foley's knock on. During that time the Wallaby discipline improved then there were a couple of penalties culminating in Foley's. The ref then warned Hooper again basically saying its discipline in general rather than just on your line.

The ref was quick on the whistle for the Timu knock on and the off the ball tackle. He could have played advantage. I'd put that down to experience.

A question for any refs on here about the penalty try. If the maul is over the try line, can you collapse it? There's no offside line in the in goal so I was wondering is a maul no longer a maul once it's over the line.

The ref stated Foley's was deliberate. Aka he did not believe he made an attempt to catch it. Surely then it is a yellow? I mean you can believe he tried to catch it but the ref disagrees with you and so can hardly be colouring his decision.

Anthracite · 17-06-2018 11:30AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The last Aussie player (Falou) is about 10 metres from Earls. Has him covered.

...true, assuming that Gary Ringrose has never heard of the idea of drawing the man and putting someone into space.

This is a nailed-on yellow card, as a first offence.

It was their third deliberate knock-on.

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 11:34AM

Christy42 wrote: »

The ref stated Foley's was deliberate. Aka he did not believe he made an attempt to catch it. Surely then it is a yellow? I mean you can believe he tried to catch it but the ref disagrees with you and so can hardly be colouring his decision.

You're misunderstanding me or I'm not being clear. Foley and Timu threw hands out at a pass that they had no chance of catching so that is a deliberate knock on. Nowhere in the laws does it state a deliberate knock on has to be a yellow card. It can be but it doesn't have to be. It's like any penalty, offside, not releasing, collapsing the scrum, preventing a quick lineout etc the ref can upgrade it to yellow card if he thinks it warrants it.

Yeah_Right · 17-06-2018 11:36AM

Anthracite wrote: »

...true, assuming that Gary Ringrose has never heard of the idea of drawing the man and putting someone into space.

This is a nailed-on yellow card, as a first offence.

It was their third deliberate knock-on.

Who is he going to draw?

Also Foley, Timu and who was the other one?

leakyboots · 17-06-2018 11:38AM

Super win, thought the ref was poor again this week, would agree with the many on here complaining about him.

Kearney much improved performance, bouncing fellas! Earls was unlucky with the try. Really disappointed for Conway, those 'sliding in on top of the player when he's scored' last ditch tackles need to be looked at, very dangerous - think he copped a knee to the hip/ribs. Hope he's alright for next week. POM was sensational, force of nature out there along with Furlong -how good is he for a prop?! Sexton really brings it to the gainline like noone else doesn't he? Delighted for Niall Scannell too, thought he had a very good game - didn't deserve to be on the tour on season's form to be honest, but he's shown what he can do and level he can reach and is worth a start again this weekend, scrum looked better with him in it too.

Really sets it up for next week, backrow are going to have to hit their markers again in a big way. Be interesting to see how the ref goes too.

Ireland v Australia - 2nd test, how the expected starting XVs compare.

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