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"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Mod:

    This thread has moved off topic, from discussion of the Man Up Campaign to a distinctly different comparison/contrast of activism versus discussion/proselytism.

    A new thread has now been opened for the discussion of activism versus discussion, here.
    Thanks be to christ.


    Thank you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Mod:

    Posts relating to activism versus discussion have now been moved from this thread to the new dedicated thread. It was a bit rough around the edges in the execution but it's done now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    Oxford student who stabbed her boyfriend admits she will 'never become a heart surgeon' as she loses appeal

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/08/oxford-university-student-avoided-prison-stabbing-boyfriend/
    So an instance of female-on-male domestic violence.

    Yet article includes the following:
    How to spot signs of domestic abuse
    Do you suspect that a friend or relative is being abused? These are the five questions to ask yourself. By Richinda Taylor of Eva Women’s Aid

    -Has she withdrawn from social life? If she is no longer attending social events or welcoming visitors to her home, this is one of the telltale signs. Likewise, if she only ever leaves home with her potential abuser, or is always in a rush to get home with a curfew to stick to.
    - Has her behaviour changed markedly? For example is she routinely cancelling appointments? Or is her appearance different to usual?
    - Is she reluctant to discuss her home life, even when directly questioned about it?
    - Have you noticed unexplained or suspicious marks? These could include bruises or grazes that she dismisses as accidental.
    - Is there evidence that her spending is being controlled? Another telltale sign is if she no longer carries money with her.
    If you believe a friend is a victim, call the free, confidential 24-hour National Domestic Violence Helpline: 0808 2000 247


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,124 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    iptba wrote: »
    Oxford student who stabbed her boyfriend admits she will 'never become a heart surgeon' as she loses appeal

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/08/oxford-university-student-avoided-prison-stabbing-boyfriend/
    So an instance of female-on-male domestic violence.

    Yet article includes the following:
    How to spot signs of domestic abuse
    Do you suspect that a friend or relative is being abused? These are the five questions to ask yourself. By Richinda Taylor of Eva Women’s Aid

    -Has she withdrawn from social life? If she is no longer attending social events or welcoming visitors to her home, this is one of the telltale signs. Likewise, if she only ever leaves home with her potential abuser, or is always in a rush to get home with a curfew to stick to.
    - Has her behaviour changed markedly? For example is she routinely cancelling appointments? Or is her appearance different to usual?
    - Is she reluctant to discuss her home life, even when directly questioned about it?
    - Have you noticed unexplained or suspicious marks? These could include bruises or grazes that she dismisses as accidental.
    - Is there evidence that her spending is being controlled? Another telltale sign is if she no longer carries money with her.
    If you believe a friend is a victim, call the free, confidential 24-hour National Domestic Violence Helpline: 0808 2000 247

    An article by women's aid Ireland focus on female victims of domestic violence. I imagine Eva women's aid is fulfilling its brief pretty well there.

    It's almost as if men need to raise awareness of, and campaign for support services for male victims of domestic violence. But we've already discussed that and it was pooh poohed. Can't fault Eva women's aid for doing there job well. Can you expect Eva women's aid to do men's homework for them?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    But we've already discussed that and it was pooh poohed.
    It was moved to another thread, so if you want to discuss it do so there, not here. Oh and less of the snark. Too much of that coming from your direction of late.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,124 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ok. In any case you can't complain about Eva Women aid offering advice on how to spot when a woman might be experiencing domestic abuse. Well you could complain but it would be the wrong approach in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    An article by women's aid Ireland focus on female victims of domestic violence. I imagine Eva women's aid is fulfilling its brief pretty well there
    They could have written it in a gender neutral way. I heard previously that Women's Aid provide training to Gardai. It would be disappointing if it was so unbalanced.

    You have also ignored that the newspaper holds some responsibility about the content of the article.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,124 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    iptba wrote: »
    An article by women's aid Ireland focus on female victims of domestic violence. I imagine Eva women's aid is fulfilling its brief pretty well there
    They could have written it in a gender neutral way. I heard previously that Women's Aid provide training to Gardai. It would be disappointing if it was so unbalanced.

    You have also ignored that the newspaper holds some responsibility about the content of the article.

    Eva Women's Aid is probably a charity that focuses on women. So why would what write their advice in a gender neutral way? If their brief is to provide support to women, then they're doing a grand job. Edit. The first line on their website says it's a women's only organisation. Soooo,

    Would you expect a men's domestic violence charity to focus on a women and men? Be fair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    Eva Women's Aid is probably a charity that focuses on women. So why would what write their advice in a gender neutral way? If their brief is to provide support to women, then they're doing a grand job. Edit. The first line on their website says it's a women's only organisation. Soooo,

    Would you expect a men's domestic violence charity to focus on a women and men? Be fair.
    So are you saying that any domestic violence organisation that only deals with female clients is unfit to give domestic violence advice or training in general on its own? As I say, as I understand it Women's Aid train or have trained the gardai on domestic violence.

    This was only a few lines of a newspaper. If somebody is an expert in domestic violence I don't think it should be beyond them to write something gender neutral. And as I say if they can't the newspaper should have looked elsewhere in this context.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,124 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    iptba wrote: »
    Eva Women's Aid is probably a charity that focuses on women. So why would what write their advice in a gender neutral way? If their brief is to provide support to women, then they're doing a grand job. Edit. The first line on their website says it's a women's only organisation. Soooo,

    Would you expect a men's domestic violence charity to focus on a women and men? Be fair.
    So are you saying that any domestic violence organisation that only deals with female clients is unfit to give domestic violence advice or training in general on its own? As I say, as I understand it Women's Aid train or have trained the gardai on domestic violence.

    This was only a few lines of a newspaper. If somebody is an expert in domestic violence I don't think it should be beyond them to write something gender neutral. And as I say if they can't the newspaper should have looked elsewhere in this context.

    Hold on hold on. You're outrage-o-meter is leading you astray. Its an English story In an English newspaper and the charity in question is based in North East England.

    Its a domestic violence story and it used a domestic violence organisation for advice on how to spot signs of domestic violence. It could have tailored the advice to the particular details of the story and they could have looked further, but that's a question of visibility of men's domestic violence organisations. Best take chat about that to the other thread though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    Just came across this via Twitter:
    http://twentytwowords.com/a-viral-post-is-showing-how-teen-girls-may-be-abusive-without-even-realizing-it
    Dear teen girls,

    Stop abusing your boyfriends and yes what you are doing is abuse.

    Stop:

    Yelling at him in front of his friends

    Hitting or slapping him when he does or says something you don’t like

    Telling him he doesn’t have a choice when it comes to decisions that involve both of you

    Telling him he can’t hang out with friends because you don’t like him

    Telling him to not talk to other girls even if they are his friend

    Forcing him to spend every moment with you

    Belittling him and pointing out all his flaws

    Calling him stupid or making fun of him for making a mistake

    Threatening to break up with him if he doesn’t do what you want

    Being emotionally manipulative and crying until he does what you want

    Accusing him of cheating every time he’s not with you

    Blow up is phone if he doesn’t text you every five minutes

    Telling him you are the best thing that has ever happened to him and no one else will love

    Physically attacking him when ever you are mad

    Forcing him to have sex despite that fact that he said he didn’t want to

    Invading his privacy by going through his phone

    Getting mad at him for changing his password and demanding he tell you what it is

    If a guy did any of these things to a girl it would be considered abuse but since its the other way around its considered normal. Throughout High school I saw many girl treating their boyfriends like ****. Sometime even physically abusing them in the hallways and no one trying to stop it because its a girl attacking a boy.

    Boys: If your girlfriend does anything on this list leave her. It is abuse and you deserve better.

    Girls: if you find your self doing anything on this list to your boyfriend you need to knock it off because you are being abusive.

    https://exposing-the-bull****.tumblr.com/post/149256150110/dear-teen-girls

    373,840 notes
    Aug 21st, 2016
    I think notes are either one of 2 things: likes or re-blogs so 186920-373840 people liked or re-blogged it.

    Doesn't just apply to teenage relationships.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    For better or worse, it looks like there will be more domestic violence charges in Ireland in the future:

    #safeireland
    @SAFEIreland
    Working to see an Irish society that acts decisively to end domestic violence challenges the perpetration of all violence against women

    https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017348647061721088
    https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017350777470443520
    https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017357255505858560
    https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017372251090575360


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Dear teen girls,

    Stop abusing your boyfriends and yes what you are doing is abuse.

    Stop:

    Yelling at him in front of his friends

    Hitting or slapping him when he does or says something you don’t like

    Telling him he doesn’t have a choice when it comes to decisions that involve both of you

    Telling him he can’t hang out with friends because you don’t like him

    Telling him to not talk to other girls even if they are his friend

    Forcing him to spend every moment with you

    Belittling him and pointing out all his flaws

    Calling him stupid or making fun of him for making a mistake

    Threatening to break up with him if he doesn’t do what you want

    Being emotionally manipulative and crying until he does what you want

    Accusing him of cheating every time he’s not with you

    Blow up is phone if he doesn’t text you every five minutes

    Telling him you are the best thing that has ever happened to him and no one else will love

    Physically attacking him when ever you are mad

    Forcing him to have sex despite that fact that he said he didn’t want to

    Invading his privacy by going through his phone

    Getting mad at him for changing his password and demanding he tell you what it is

    If a guy did any of these things to a girl it would be considered abuse but since its the other way around its considered normal. Throughout High school I saw many girl treating their boyfriends like ****. Sometime even physically abusing them in the hallways and no one trying to stop it because its a girl attacking a boy.

    Boys: If your girlfriend does anything on this list leave her. It is abuse and you deserve better.

    Girls: if you find your self doing anything on this list to your boyfriend you need to knock it off because you are being abusive.

    Having had 2 teenage daughters most of the above (bar the sex ... although am not sure even on that one) is what some teenage girls do to their girl friends. It's the way girls bully each other. So it's not surprising it continues when they get in a relationship.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Telling him he can’t hang out with friends because you don’t like him

    Telling him to not talk to other girls even if they are his friend

    I've been there, my friends are almost all male. I'm no looker and yet girlfriends have tried to stop me being mates with the lads.

    Most told them where to go - one even using the Wham line from Young Guns "hey shut up chick that's a friend of mine, just watch your mouth babe you're out of line!"

    If I had a boyfriend and they ever said "it's him or me" about my best friend (male) of 20 years - he wouldn't know what hit him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    More coverage that only focuses on violence against one gender, women.

    And my guess is female perpetrators of violence against women will either not be mentioned at all or not be mentioned very much.
    https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1025415844170551297


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    For anyone interested, pages 3-6 covers domestic violence terms and legislation in Ireland , including the Domestic Violence Act 2018
    Relate
    The journal of developments in social services, policy and legislation in Ireland
    http://www.citizensinformationboard.ie/downloads/relate/relate_2018_07.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭terryduff12


    I love how they want more women in the Dail, the girlfriend watches all them clowns on snapchat beauty bloggers and others talking nonsense. A a lot of them lie, one of them lied bought cheap stuff from Ali express and sold it on at exorbitant prices any chance they get these strong independent women will screw over the next woman when they are supposed to be better that men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-45277554
    Domestic abuse husband 'let down' before his murder
    23 August 2018
    A Chorley Council domestic homicide review found two GPs had failed to ask the solicitor how he was injured, as did Chorley Hospital's A&E unit in July 2015.

    He told a paramedic about the abuse but a failure to follow procedures meant the report was not escalated to managers.

    A perception that men were not domestic abuse victims may have contributed to the situation, the report concluded.
    Edwards, 42, was sentenced to life for her husband's murder in March 2016.
    Her trial heard she had frequently assaulted him, causing injuries including a broken collarbone, and had once bitten his nose and ear.
    The jury was told how Mr Edwards wore make-up on their wedding day to hide his injuries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,856 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ^^

    an unusual set of events, the guy was in his 40's and a solicitor so you think he wouldnt be a pushover, and the wife that he has recently married looks rotten. she was violent to him before the weeding, cant understand why he didnt dump her like a bad smell

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    (London)
    "Any attempt to leave and I'll be killed": Male domestic abuse survivor speaks out as thousands of victims are left without refuge in the capital
    Studies by the ManKind Initiative show men are three times less likely to report themselves as victims than women. Mark Brooks, the charity’s chairman says society plays a big role in why men don’t come forward: “For men, they fear that they won’t be believed, they don’t understand how and why they can be a victim of domestic abuse and they don’t know where to get help.”

    “From a societal perspective, there is still a problem and a reluctance to accept that men are victims. It’s still seen very much as a women’s issue where they’re the victims at the hands of men, rather than a society issue where both men and women can be victims and perpetrators.”
    https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-sadiq-khan-domestic-abuse-male-victims-a3911481.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    I just saw on Sky News that charities in the UK are calling for a domestic abuse register for all sorts of domestic abuse to be created like there is a sex offenders register. Only female victims were mentioned, but it was only a banner point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    I came across this on Facebook. It was a sponsored post.
    'Not all abuse is violent': What to do if you think someone may be abusing their partner
    An expert shares how he helps perpetrators to change.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/how-to-intervene-domestic-abuse-4222661-Sep2018

    Perhaps not surprisingly, given it is connected with MOVE Ireland, the article is somewhat unbalanced


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    Men’s Leadership in Gender Based Violence

    - Let’s End the Silence The South Eastern Domestic and Sexual Violence Partnership and Vital Voices Global Partnership, are pleased to invite you to participate in leadership training on gender violence prevention with Jackson Katz ( www.jacksonkatz.com ) - an internationally known expert in the field. 'Men’s Leadership in Gender Based Violence - Let’s End the Silence' will be held on Wednesday 28 th November 2018, from 10.00am to 4.00pm , in the Burrendale Hotel, Newcastle, Co. Down. Jackson Katz is the co - founder of Men tors in Violence Prevention, and has achieved global recognition for his pioneering work and activism on issues of gender, race 5 and violence. To find out more, contact Patricia McMurray, Coordinator, South Eastern Domestic and Sexual Violence Partnership at Email : patricia.mcmurray@setrust.hscni.net o r Te l: 02844 615208 .
    This appears to be about the male perpetrator-female victim model


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    https://www.safeireland.ie/domestic-violence-costing-the-economy-more-than-previously-thought/
    Domestic Violence Costing the Economy More than Previously Thought
    October 4, 2018/in Press Releases /by safe-ireland

    Agency urges politicians to keep watch for vital investments that can transform women’s lives

    Safe Ireland, the national agency working to eradicate domestic violence in Ireland, delivered a Budget Watch to all TDs and Senators today, to urge them to monitor Budget 2019 for the delivery of five essential measures of care and progress for women and children living with violence.

    The agency said that the minimum additional investment needed in 2019 to address the urgent needs of victims of domestic violence is €35 million. The agency now knows, from new research currently being carried out with NUI Galway, that is just a tiny fraction of the enormous estimated annual cost of domestic violence to the economy every year.

    Up to now, the often-cited figure on economic costs for domestic violence is €2.2 billion a year. This is based on a 2006 Council of Europe study which looked at costs across areas like policing, health bills, lost productivity and court proceedings.

    New Safe Ireland/NUI Galway research on the estimated cost of domestic violence in Ireland is indicating that the cost could actually be far greater than previously thought. The research is looking at the economic and social costs of domestic violence across three phases of a survivor’s journey, from living within the abusive relationship to relocation and recovery.

    “Domestic violence is more than a human rights violation and public health issue, By exploring its wider economic and social impact, we highlight the often invisible or ignored consequences for individuals, households, the community and society,” said Dr. Caroline Forde, Researcher at the Centre for Global Women’s Studies at NUI Galway.

    Safe Ireland called particularly for a specific, ring-fenced allocation of €15 million in the housing budget to fund and target initiatives to support women and families to access stable housing. It is widely acknowledged that domestic violence is a leading cause of homelessness for women and children.

    “It’s really easy maths. If you allocate adequate and targeted resources to prevention and support for survivors of domestic violence, you save lives, restore futures and save billions,” Caitriona Gleeson, Programme Manager with Safe Ireland said. “If you don’t address it and tinker around the edges as we have done for decades in Ireland, it continues to cost us all and leaves women and children at greater risk of revictimisation, trauma and poorer life outcomes.”

    Safe Ireland said that Ireland now has some of the most ground-breaking and progressive legislation in the world designed to protect and support survivors of domestic violence. However, legislation has to be backed up by adequate and targeted funding if it is to make a difference to people’s lives, it said.



    Five Measures of Care and Progress in Budget 2019



    1. Safe Homes: Specific ring-fenced allocation of funding and targeted initiatives for survivors of domestic violence.

    Investment Needed: €15 million

    2. Sustainable Support Services: Increase refuge and support services so that they are accessible throughout the country, upgrade facilities, bring pay and conditions of low paid professionals up to 2018 levels, breaking a pay freeze that has been in place since 2009.

    Investment Needed: €20 million

    3. Training and Awareness: Targeted and specific training and awareness training for frontline responders.

    Investment Needed: €2 million

    4. Trauma and Recovery: Development of special trauma response service.

    Investment Needed: €8 million

    5. Resource our legislation: Increase resources allocated to justice and victim support services to implement the new DV Act and Victims Directive.

    No access to cost of increasing trained personnel across other services

    https://www.safeireland.ie/domestic-violence-costing-the-economy-more-than-previously-thought/


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,488 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    iptba wrote: »
    This appears to be about the male perpetrator-female victim model

    Is he the one who wrote an article about how metoo caused him to finally read simone de beauviour and the irish times published the article?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    Is he the one who wrote an article about how metoo caused him to finally read simone de beauviour and the irish times published the article?
    This guy has been around for a number of years, so it probably isn't him:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Katz


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,488 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    iptba wrote: »
    This guy has been around for a number of years, so it probably isn't him:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Katz

    Sorry my bad! He was in the news recently though with the "study" about when he asked men how they avoided being raped they said nothing and when he asked women they gave a load of answers


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    A sponsored post that came up in my Facebook feed:
    https://www.facebook.com/manstuff/posts/2221101984590902
    Sponsored by Cosc

    What you should do when you witness domestic abuse

    What would you do?
    Although 88,000 men have been severely abused by a partner at some point in their lives, 95% of them won't report it to the Gardai. The traditional ideologies of masculinity are no doubt part of what discourages them to speak up, but it's important that any witnesses to such abuse know how they can help.

    Research shows that 4 in 10 people in Ireland know someone who has experienced domestic violence. However, not knowing what to do when witnessing domestic violence is one of the main reasons why people give for not intervening.

    Domestic abuse can be both physical and emotional, and can affect either men or women. Trust your instincts, but remember your goal is to de-escalate the situation, so a direct approach isn't always the best course of action.
    Continues at:
    https://www.joe.ie/life-style/a-powerful-way-to-highlight-the-major-problem-of-domestic-abuse-639291


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    #SafeWorldSummit is trending
    The Safe Ireland Safe World Summit is taking place in The Mansion House on Monday and Tuesday, October 22nd and 23rd. Over 35 world leading activists, advocates, lawyers, historians, journalists, and survivors are coming to Dublin to explore the meaningful solutions that are needed to support women and children experiencing violence.


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