The Hazards of Belief

Zubeneschamali · 21-05-2018 02:29PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

The role involves a bit more than simply telling someone about the faith. You're supposed to exemplify it, which presumably is not something many atheists would be willing or able to do.

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

Just sayin.

recedite · 21-05-2018 11:25PM

Aren't you supposed to swear or promise at some point in the ceremony to help bring up the child in the faith?
I've been asked a few times, but I always turned down the role.

One eyed Jack · 21-05-2018 11:41PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This would be in line with Ratzinger's idea that the church should shrink to a dedicated core and get rid of all the wishy washy half-believers.

I am on board with the shrinking part.

Halligan has no legitimate grounds for complaint here. The requirements are pretty straightforward -

Statement of Meeting the Requirements of Canon Law For Being a Confirmation Sponsor

Nothing whatsoever to do with his politics.

Pawwed Rig · 22-05-2018 12:58AM

You just nod and smile during the ceremony. Nothing more too it. Same with the communion that they'll be forced into and the confirmation and eventual wedding and funeral (with less smiling). They are empty formalities where one must prostitute themselves to get by in this country.

Peregrinus · 22-05-2018 01:50AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

Just sayin.

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

Zubeneschamali · 22-05-2018 06:39AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

Hey! I've been secretary of the local Evil Atheist Conspiracy chapter ever since I showed up to an AGM one year and got stuck with the job!

pauldla · 22-05-2018 07:42AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Hey! I've been secretary of the local Evil Atheist Conspiracy chapter ever since I showed up to an AGM one year and got stuck with the job!

Next time don't bring Custard Creams. I learned that lesson the hard way.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 11:52AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

The role involves a bit more than simply telling someone about the faith. You're supposed to exemplify it, which presumably is not something many atheists would be willing or able to do.

(That's why they have a rule that says that godparents should be active Catholics. It's not just a lets-be-mean-to-atheists thing.)

I have two godchildren. I've never been asked by the priest if i was an active catholic. Mot priests would probably be afraid of the answer they receive from the majority.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 11:54AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

Peregrinus · 22-05-2018 12:18PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

Possibly not, although why you think the comparison with priests is relevant here is not clear. Very few godparents are priests.

But the role of a godparent is not to be "a good example" in general; it's to exemplify Catholic faith in particular. Which, obviously, will be a bit of a stretch
for an atheist.

One eyed Jack · 22-05-2018 12:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

How do you make that out?

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 12:37PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

Just sayin.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Possibly not, although why you think the comparison with priests is relevant here is not clear. Very few godparents are priests.

I mentioned priests because that is what i was responding to. how is that not clear?

Peregrinus wrote: »

But the role of a godparent is not to be "a good example" in general; it's to exemplify Catholic faith in particular. Which, obviously, will be a bit of a stretch for an atheist.

Perhaps the mechanics of it would be but if that is the most important part of being a catholic then it is no wonder the church is failing.

Peregrinus · 22-05-2018 12:41PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I mentioned priests because that is what i was responding to. how is that not clear?

You quoted a post of mine which said nothing about priests, which in turn quoted a post of Zub's which was about himself, and he's not a priest (that I know of). The whole in a discussion of the role of godparents. So it wasn't clear that you were actually responding to a post about priests.

As a matter of interest, what post were you responding to?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Perhaps the mechanics of it would be but if that is the most important part of being a catholic then it is no wonder the church is failing.

Sorry, you've lost me. If what is the most important part of being a Catholic?

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 12:45PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

You quoted a post of mine which said nothing about priests, which in turn quoted a post of Zub's which was about himself, and he's not a priest (that I know of). The whole in a discussion of the role of godparents. So it wasn't clear that you were actually responding to a post about priests.

As a matter of interest, what post were you responding to?

The post i responded was a quote of a quote of a quote. I was respond to this subthread if you like.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Sorry, you've lost me. If what is the most important part of being a Catholic?

the mechanics of being a catholic. going through the motions.

Peregrinus · 22-05-2018 12:56PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The post i responded was a quote of a quote of a quote. I was respond to this subthread if you like.

But I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that priests are good role models. You may be refuting a point which no-one has made.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the mechanics of being a catholic. going through the motions.

Ah, right, with you now. But the only person in this thread who has suggested that all a godparents needs to be able to do is mouth the responses is, in fact, an atheist. You can hardly hold that up as an example of an attitude besetting the Catholic church.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 01:01PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

But I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that priests are good role models. You may be refuting a point which no-one has made.

Quite the opposite. It was suggested that priest are bad role models.

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

You asked how the poster could be a good atheist if that were true. I responded to that.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ah, right, with you now. But the only person in this thread who has suggested that all a godparents needs to be able to do is mouth the responses is, in fact, an atheist. You can hardly hold that up as an example of an attitude besetting the Catholic church.

We must go to very different baptisms. "Mouth the responses" is pretty much what everybody does. If they even bother to do that.

Peregrinus · 22-05-2018 01:11PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We must go to very different baptisms. "Mouth the responses" is pretty much what everybody does. If they even bother to do that.

Yes, I know. But who has suggested that that is the entirety of their role? That;s like suggesting that the sole or most important duty of a spouse is to say "I do" at the apt moment.

Hector Savage · 05-06-2018 02:59PM

Maybe the Crocodile was Catholic ?

Seriously , how do the religious people there still believe in a God - or at least in the "correct" God after witnessing this ???

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44366360

Crocodile kills Ethiopian pastor during lake baptism
4 minutes ago
Share this with Facebook Share this with Twitter Share this with Messenger Share this with Email Share
Image copyrightSCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY
Image caption
Crocodiles are found in freshwater habitats like rivers and lakes
A crocodile has killed a Protestant pastor who was baptising followers near a lake in southern Ethiopia.

Docho Eshete was conducting the ceremony for about 80 people on Sunday morning at Lake Abaya in Arba Minch town's Merkeb Tabya district.

Residents and police told BBC Amharic a crocodile leapt from the water during the baptism and attacked him.

Pastor Docho died after being bitten on his legs, back and hands.

ohnonotgmail · 05-06-2018 02:59PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Maybe the Crocodile was Catholic ?

Seriously , how do the religious people there still believe in a God - or at least in the "correct" God after witnessing this ???

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44366360

The Lord moves in mysterious ways.

Zubeneschamali · 05-06-2018 03:01PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Seriously , how do the religious people there still believe in a God - or at least in the "correct" God after witnessing this ???

If you imagine that no religious person ever noticed that bad things happen to good people, you have a strange imagination.

ohnonotgmail · 05-06-2018 03:02PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you imagine that no religious person ever noticed that bad things happen to good people, you have a strange imagination.

and of course you are assuming that they were a good person.

Hector Savage · 05-06-2018 03:16PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you imagine that no religious person ever noticed that bad things happen to good people, you have a strange imagination.

Yes but in this particular situation , you would think it would make them wonder at least - this is supposedly a representative of God - doing His work !

It's almost like killing Jesus ... the perfect non sinning ..... oh .... wait ....

Peregrinus · 05-06-2018 03:20PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yes but in this particular situation , you would think it would make them wonder at least - this is supposedly a representative of God - doing His work !

If there was a scripture quote that said that doing God's work conferred immunity from crocodile attack, I must have missed that particular Sunday school class.

robindch · 05-06-2018 03:23PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

If there was a scripture quote that said that doing God's work conferred immunity from crocodile attack, I must have missed that particular Sunday school class.

Perhaps they were short of snakes and contracted in a few crocs instead?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/snake-handling-pentecostal-pastor-dies-snake-bite/story?id=22551754

double-oops.

ohnonotgmail · 05-06-2018 03:26PM

robindch wrote: »

Perhaps they were short of snakes and contracted in a few crocs instead?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/snake-handling-pentecostal-pastor-dies-snake-bite/story?id=22551754

double-oops.

the only surprising thing about is that it doesnt happen more often.

Peregrinus · 05-06-2018 03:28PM

Ah, well there you go. If you're going to be a scriptural literalist, you have to be literalist. No substituting crocodiles for snakes.

Obviously the problem here isn't that they were religious. It's that they weren't religious enough.

recedite · 05-06-2018 03:49PM

Religion is usually tied up with culture to a certain extent, and these things are often most appropriate to the part of the world where they originated.
Take them somewhere else, and unforeseen problems may arise.
This distribution map shows that crocs are generally absent from the middle east.
I'm pretty sure that no native African or Australian religions would have a ritual that involves splashing around in the shallow water at the edge of crocodile infested lakes.

On a related note, muslims have recently succeeded in their efforts to build a mosque on the Outer Hebrides in time for Ramadan.

In June, the islands experience an average of 18 hours of daylight, meaning those fasting only have six hours during the darkness in which to eat and drink.

Hopefully they are at this very moment enjoying the fruits of their labour.

pauldla · 06-06-2018 01:16AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

If there was a scripture quote that said that doing God's work conferred immunity from crocodile attack, I must have missed that particular Sunday school class.

It's at the back, next to the bit about who one can bake cakes for.

recedite · 06-06-2018 12:14PM

I wonder how many "early adopter" Christians died of pneumonia in Europe before they shortened the baptism ritual to "a light sprinkling of water, indoors" :pac:

silverharp · 06-06-2018 12:17PM

recedite wrote: »

I wonder how many "early adopter" Christians died of pneumonia in Europe before they shortened the baptism ritual to "a light sprinkling of water, indoors" :pac:

don't they recommend having a cold shower for health purposes?

The Hazards of Belief

Comments