The Hazards of Belief

recedite

I think it was back in the early 1990's that some guy running the Irish blood transfusion service had a nixer going in which he was buying blood from desperate (often homeless) people in the USA, via his own private company, and then selling it to the service (himself, but wearing a different hat) for use in Irish hospitals. So the more blood they used, the more profit he made. As a result, numerous Irish people contracted hepatitis.
So yeah, I can understand somebody not being a fan.

One eyed Jack

recedite wrote: »

I think it was back in the early 1990's that some guy running the Irish blood transfusion service had a nixer going in which he was buying blood from desperate (often homeless) people in the USA, via his own private company, and then selling it to the service (himself, but wearing a different hat) for use in Irish hospitals. So the more blood they used, the more profit he made. As a result, numerous Irish people contracted hepatitis.
So yeah, I can understand somebody not being a fan.

Remarkably similar to this particular crowd -


Controversial multibillion-dollar health startup Theranos just got a huge seal of approval from the US government


Can read more about them on Wikipedia, nothing wrong with the science per se, but their business practices were highly questionable!

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

I think it was back in the early 1990's that some guy running the Irish blood transfusion service had a nixer going in which he was buying blood from desperate (often homeless) people in the USA, via his own private company, and then selling it to the service (himself, but wearing a different hat) for use in Irish hospitals. So the more blood they used, the more profit he made. As a result, numerous Irish people contracted hepatitis.
So yeah, I can understand somebody not being a fan.

I've never heard of that. Do you have a source for it?

I mean, I heard of Hepatitis being caused by contaminated Anti-D, but what you're describing sounds completely different.

recedite

I can't find much about it on the web, just this bit about a golden handshake. But IMO there was a lot more shenanigans going on there than was ever disclosed, and of course the most essential part of the deal when getting rid of somebody associated with an embarrassing episode is always the "non disclosure" part.

Also just found this more recent occurrence which I hadn't noticed before.

Health Minister Simon Harris was informed as early as last January that an Irish patient had tested positive for hepatitis B which was "probably transmitted" through a blood transfusion.

However, the serious incident was not made public by the Irish Blood Transfusion Service (IBTS) until this week.

The delay in making the incident public has raised major questions, particularly in light of the blood scandal which engulfed the service in the 1990s, leading to the infection of more than 1,000 mothers with hepatitis C.

"Just an isolated case". Move along now, nothing to see here.

recedite

Another old article here.

According to documents filed in the Companies Office, there are ``related party transactions'' between the firms Accu-Science, Intrascience and Mr Kinsella's other company Intraveno Ltd. (It has also emerged that the BTSB's former national director, Dr Jack O'Riordan, had what John Trainor SC suggested was an ``unusual'' relationship with another BTSB supplier, the multinational pharmaceutical company, Travenol)

Though SeHanratty admitted he was a director of Accu-Science, a company which supplied blood products to the BTSB, his name does not appear on company records, although one of its early directors is named as James Hanratty, who is described as a farmer from Roscommon.

SeHanratty has become a central figure in the Lindsay tribunal because of this apparent conflict of interest, and also because, as technical director of the BTSB, it was on his instructions that all records of blood products received and issued prior to 1986 were shredded and disposed of in 1993'

oscarBravo

I'm aware that IBTS, and more so BTSB, has had some questionable incidents (although I think you're adding two and two and coming up with 25 in a very conspiracy-theory-esque way). That doesn't stop me (and thousands of others) donating blood whenever I can, and it certainly wouldn't prompt me to decide that I'd rather bleed out during an operation than face the rather poorly-defined risks involved in a transfusion.

That's a decision for everyone to make for themselves, of course.

silverharp

I think their biggest hazard of belief is thinking anyone who had a Big Mac in London in 94 is carrying mad cow disease.

seamus

Certainly if it was a choice between a surgeon jumping the gun and providing a transfusion a little bit before it was necessary, or being allowed to die on the table because I'd explicitly said I didn't want a transfusion, I know which option I'd choose, every time.

There's an incredible amount of "look at how many people die on the table" scaremongering flying around. Virtually all of it ignores the fact that the people who die on the table probably would have died several years earlier had it not been for medical intervention.

recedite

seamus wrote: »

There's an incredible amount of "look at how many people die on the table" scaremongering flying around.

Are you aware that several hundred people in Ireland have died as a result of receiving contaminated blood? Not on the operating table, but at home, slowly over a number of years from Hepatitis and AIDs.
And as for "conspiracy theories" I'll let the facts as outlined in the links I posted speak for themselves.

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

Are you aware that several hundred people in Ireland have died as a result of receiving contaminated blood? Not on the operating table, but at home, slowly over a number of years from Hepatitis and AIDs.

Yes, and hundreds of thousands have received blood transfusions and gone on to live healthy lives.

And as for "conspiracy theories" I'll let the facts as outlined in the links I posted speak for themselves.

They do; they just don't say as much as you seem to think they do.

If what you've read, half-recalled, extrapolated and surmised makes you think that it would be safer to take the chance on bleeding out during an operation than to risk a transfusion, well, that's up to you. Just don't fool yourself that it's a rational decision.

seamus

recedite wrote: »

Are you aware that several hundred people in Ireland have died as a result of receiving contaminated blood? Not on the operating table, but at home, slowly over a number of years from Hepatitis and AIDs.

So you're saying that they should have been allowed die on the operating table rather than get a few extra years with their families. Gotcha.

robindch

Fr Pat Collins says that Ireland needs more exorcists. Also suspects that younger clergy don't believe in exorcism to start with.

https://www.irishcatholic.com/combat-surge-evil-top-exorcist/

recedite

A rising tide of evil afflicting the country, eh?
Just as well each diocese has "a trained exorcist who knows how to distinguish the signs of demonic possession from those of mental or physical illness".

Zubeneschamali

robindch wrote: »

Fr Pat Collins says that Ireland needs more exorcists. Also suspects that younger clergy don't believe in exorcism to start with.

I agree with him on the younger clergy thing. Although I think most older clergymen think possession and exorcism are horse****, too, because really, you'd have to be a bit mad to believe in that stuff these days.

pauldla

From patheos.com:

Poll suggests that 'religious beliefs' are the main source of global conflict.

Depends on who's being polled, I suppose.

robindch

In a somewhat ironic move, Pope Francis has denounced people who spread fake news which, he said, lead to arrogance and hatred:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42802295

Meanwhile, back in Ireland and perhaps predictably, students won't be sitting the new international Pisa test designed to assess respect for other cultures, challenge extremism and help identify fake news:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42781376

silverharp

robindch wrote: »

In a somewhat ironic move, Pope Francis has denounced people who spread fake news which, he said, lead to arrogance and hatred:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42802295

Meanwhile, back in Ireland and perhaps predictably, students won't be sitting the new international Pisa test designed to assess respect for other cultures, challenge extremism and help identify fake news:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42781376

we seem to be in good company. would this fake news thing be neutral or just "russian bot" type?

But some Western countries including England, the United States, Germany, France, Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland and Ireland have decided not to take the global competence test, although they will take the other core academic subject tests.

Odhinn

Grim stuff

In March 2016, a 22-year-old man was hacked to death in daylight on a crowded road in southern India for marrying a woman of a higher caste. His wife survived the attack and went on to testify against her parents and campaign against the scourge of caste, as the BBC's Soutik Biswas reports.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-42700361

recedite

silverharp wrote: »

would this fake news thing be neutral or just "russian bot" type?

Serpentine type. He gave the example of a talking snake being a purveyor of fake news.

On the new Pisa "global competences" test, I'd be curious to see some examples of the questions. Does it test knowledge or opinion?
It's possible to have a good knowledge of globalisation or multiculturalism without being a supporter.

silverharp

recedite wrote: »

Serpentine type. He gave the example of a talking snake being a purveyor of fake news.

On the new Pisa "global competences" test, I'd be curious to see some examples of the questions. Does it test knowledge or opinion?
It's possible to have a good knowledge of globalisation or multiculturalism without being a supporter.

I missed the popey link , i got the impression that they would be measuring opinions as opposed to knowledge

recedite

silverharp wrote: »

i got the impression that they would be measuring opinions as opposed to knowledge

Or some combination of both, and there's the rub. Its probably a test that is best avoided.

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

Or some combination of both, and there's the rub. Its probably a test that is best avoided.

You're admitting you haven't the first clue about it but have come to a conclusion nonetheless.
Rigorous.

silverharp

funnily enough we had a parent teachers meeting a while back and the civics or whatever they call it now teacher had a test that a 4th year had done. basically put names to well known political faces,i even think the list of names were given and it was a mess, couldnt identify Putin, Obama, etc. the only question I guess is this kind of knowledge important for school kids?

oscarBravo

Well, we wouldn't want to teach children the ability to think critically, now would we?

Hector Savage

https://www.hoover.org/research/no-platform-brigade

recedite

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.hoover.org/research/no-platform-brigade

Good quotes from Ataturk and Churchill there, at least they agreed on something :pac:
Not sure what either of them would make of today's news, 100 years later, from Ofsted referring to some English schools;

According to Ms Spielman, some individuals want to narrow students' horizons: "Under the pretext of religious belief, they use education institutions, legal and illegal, to narrow young people's horizons, to isolate and segregate, and in the worst cases to indoctrinate impressionable minds with extremist ideology.

Hotblack Desiato

Mary McAleese barred by Vatican from conference on women

The Vatican has barred former President of Ireland Mary McAleese from taking part in a conference to mark International Women’s Day which was originally due to take place in the Holy See.

The list of potential speakers required approval from a cardinal, but Mrs McAleese was not granted permission to participate.

As a result, the organisers have moved the “Why Women Matter” conference on March 8th to premises outside the Vatican, and have also invited Mrs McAleese to be keynote speaker. She had previously been asked to take part in a panel discussion at the event.

The conference was organised by the Voices of Faith group, which is seeking to convince the Vatican that women “have the expertise, skills and gifts to play a full leadership role in the church”.

The inclusion of Mary McAleese and two other speakers on its programme was opposed by Cardinal Kevin Farrell, prefect of the Dicastery for the Laity, Family and Life. A Dubliner who spent most of his clerical life in the US, he is the most senior Irishman at the Vatican.

Really looks like a score being settled over the marriage equality campaign.

Hector Savage

recedite wrote: »

Good quotes from Ataturk and Churchill there, at least they agreed on something :pac:
Not sure what either of them would make of today's news, 100 years later, from Ofsted referring to some English schools;

Well I am glad the schools inspector is bringing it to attention and not sweeping it under the carpet.

recedite

The Vatican would be mad to invite McAleese in to talk about gender inequality. She'd have almost as many complaints as Mary Robinson.

The Voices of Faith say;

We live in times marked by change, but there are places where gender equality is being systematically overlooked. The Catholic Church is one of them.

Well, if you don't like the rules of the club, why so keen to be a member?

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

The Vatican would be mad to invite McAleese in to talk about gender inequality. She'd have almost as many complaints as Mary Robinson.

The Voices of Faith say;
Well, if you don't like the rules of the club, why so keen to be a member?

Mary went and studied in Rome, presumably with the stupid idea that a knowledge of canon law would do her some good, which imagines that the church is just run by different rules, not just an instititution bending whatever rules it wants to protect its own power.