Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

eviltwin · 01-06-2018 01:07PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Evil, what I am saying is the UK services while not perfect are among the best in the world. Even still they have flaws. But they have the experience. Experience is critical in medicine, we all know that from recent scandals. Oversight is also critical.

Hope and optimism is not enough. You need very well trained medical professionals. GPs are great but again for complicated procedures around abortion, you need trained experts, not only obgyns, but nurses and the like. People's lives will be at risk.

These are valid concerns which I think most people would agree on apart from the "Happy Clappy, isn't it great we are getting abortion?" brigade.

If you are going to have abortion here at least attempt to do it right, otherwise we will be looking at the next big scandal, with Harris and Varakar stonewalling and saying "nothing to do with us".

No health care system is perfect. You say we can't trust Stopes and co but we already are. We have been relying on them for decades. We rely on imported pills taken in secret. We rely on an abortion system that means women here don't get 6 week check ups. Any system we introduce is going to be better than that.

ELM327 · 01-06-2018 01:08PM

Shadowstrife wrote: »

I want to ask if anyone has heard anti-Donegal sentiment, sniggering,snobbery or cheap jokes since the result. Please elaborate, thanks!

Even when it was Roscommon I knew it was Donegal

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 01:09PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Still waiting on you to provide links to the scientific data, to back up your opinion that the laws regarding access to abortion are routinely broken.

I provided you with the stats for Ground C in the UK from a pro abortion website. Not my problem if you cannot process them and refuse to believe them.
Calling for "Scientific Data" is meaningless guff. The facts were provided to you. You ignored them and started looking for something else instead.
To save you, me and the other posters on this thread from your repetitive posts, I am going to do us all a favour. Guess where you are heading

My ignore list

Goodbye.

ELM327 · 01-06-2018 01:10PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I provided you with the stats for Ground C in the UK from a pro abortion website. Not my problem if you cannot process them and refuse to believe them.
Calling for "Scientific Data" is meaningless guff. The facts were provided to you. You ignored them and started looking for something else instead.
To save you, me and the other posters on this thread from your repetitive posts, I am going to do us all a favour. Guess where you are heading My ignore list Goodbye.

Oh No.
Not your ignore list,
Guys I'm so threatened.
We should all go back and vote no.

01-06-2018 01:13PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I provided you with the stats for Ground C in the UK from a pro abortion website. Not my problem if you cannot process them and refuse to believe them.
Calling for "Scientific Data" is meaningless guff. The facts were provided to you. You ignored them and started looking for something else instead.
To save you, me and the other posters on this thread from your repetitive posts, I am going to do us all a favour. Guess where you are heading My ignore list Goodbye.

In other words you were talking sh*te then and can't back it up as you provided a link to a pro life site, and your talking it again now about what will happen in Ireland due to untrained staff in your opinion while ignoring that there is already training provided to some extent.

01-06-2018 01:15PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh No.
Not your ignore list,
Guys I'm so threatened.
We should all go back and vote no.

Given all the angry posts from the no side about repeal shield before the vote, I just find it funny.

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 01:15PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Repetition achieves nothing. Your arguments have been countered and you are giving the same spiel again to a post that didn't try to counter your argument.

Is that seriously the best you can come up with?

What repetition? I started talking about how we have no experience in the provision of mass abortion in Ireland, a topic no-one really has brought up.

The Yes side need to do better and be more imaginative than the default "I don't care, you lost, we won" nonsense. That approach truly is staid and repetitive at this stage.

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 01:16PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh No.
Not your ignore list,
Guys I'm so threatened.
We should all go back and vote no.

Yes...the dreaded ignore list.

Fighting Tao · 01-06-2018 01:17PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Is that seriously the best you can come up with?

What repetition? I started talking about how we have no experience in the provision of mass abortion in Ireland, a topic no-one really has brought up.

The Yes side need to do better and be more imaginative than the default "I don't care, you lost, we won" nonsense. That approach truly is staid and repetitive at this stage.

I countered all of your points. You just repeated yourself again and again, and then you ask me if that's all I can come up with?

01-06-2018 01:20PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I countered all of your points. You just repeated yourself again and again, and then you ask me if that's all I can come up with?

Same as before the vote, rinse and repeat statements while ignoring actual answers.

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 01:23PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I countered all of your points. You just repeated yourself again and again, and then you ask me if that's all I can come up with?

I guess repetition has become a large part of this thread if that is the case.
You didn't really counter my points to be fair and not in any great detail, just some vague "it will be grand" responses.

I will repeat the points not for the sake of repetition but more to make people aware what they are in for. If they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend its not real fair enough.

We have NO EXPERIENCE in the mass provision of abortion services and particularly in the provision of complicated abortion services.

An entire abortion infrastructure will need to be set up. It will take years to get right.

So enough of the Happy Clappy, it will be alright, aren't we great, nonsense.

And I don't think you could ask for two worse or more incompetent politicians than Harris and Varadkar to lead this. We have seen their approach to accountability and openness recently.

Varadkar wasn't even aware of the Cervical Smear scandal when he was minister for Health. So much for being on top of your brief.

ELM327 · 01-06-2018 01:25PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I guess repetition has become a large part of this thread if that is the case.
You didn't really counter my points to be fair and not in any great detail, just some vague "it will be grand" responses.

I will repeat the points not for the sake of repetition but more to make people aware what they are in for. If they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend its not real fair enough.

We have NO EXPERIENCE in the mass provision of abortion services and particularly in the provision of complicated abortion services.

An entire abortion infrastructure will need to be set up. It will take years to get right.

So enough of the Happy Clappy, it will be alright, aren't we great, nonsense.

And I don't think you could ask for two worst politicians than Harris and Varadkar to lead this. We have seen their approach to accountability and openness recently.

Varadkar wasn't even aware of the Cervical Smear scandal when he was minister for Health. So much for being on top of your brief.

Theres enough mbjrepetition of this term so I will save you the time.

Cupcake_Crisis · 01-06-2018 01:25PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Yes...the dreaded ignore list.

I’m sure he’s devastated.

You seem to have conveniently ignored where I informed you that medical staff already train in abortion services. Not to mention the medical staff who would have worked abroad gained experience there. Also not to mention the many foreign doctors and nurses working in our hospitals who come from countries where abortions are routinely performed.

By all means carry on cherry picking which information you want to address.

ELM327 · 01-06-2018 01:28PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Given all the angry posts from the no side about repeal shield before the vote, I just find it funny.

well it won the day so it did its job. And yeah its equal parts funny and pathetic that the no side are still debating this. It's not so much a dead horse anymore, as a decomposed one.

Fighting Tao · 01-06-2018 01:28PM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

I’m sure he’s devastated.

You seem to have conveniently ignored where I informed you that medical staff already train in abortion services. Not to mention the medical staff who would have worked abroad gained experience there. Also not to mention the many foreign doctors and nurses working in our hospitals who come from countries where abortions are routinely performed.

By all means carry on cherry picking which information you want to address.

He has disengaged, is unable to discuss at a basic level, and ignored every response. This has resulted in him cutting and pasting his post again. Even resorting to telling us that we are the ones with our fingers in our ears. Totally confusing.

Shadowstrife · 01-06-2018 01:29PM

Re: Donegal - We TogetherForYes-ers put in a titantic effort for Repeal up here in the hills.

A few reasons why Donegal voted No by a very tiny margin.

Our TogetherforYes members were assaulted in Letterkenny on Saturday night; threatened with serious bodily harm on several occasions. I was thumped and abused verbally on local streets. Those blows don't hurt me. But the redrawing of constituencies in Donegal dealt us a huge blow. Our Ballyshannon & Bundoran votes had been gobbled up by our neighbour counties.

Also, emigrant youth. People in my age group. All are abroad, or down south in cities. They marked 'X' in the Yes box there, but are Donegal to their core.

Fighting Tao · 01-06-2018 01:36PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I guess repetition has become a large part of this thread if that is the case.
You didn't really counter my points to be fair and not in any great detail, just some vague "it will be grand" responses.

I will repeat the points not for the sake of repetition but more to make people aware what they are in for. If they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend its not real fair enough.

We have NO EXPERIENCE in the mass provision of abortion services and particularly in the provision of complicated abortion services.

An entire abortion infrastructure will need to be set up. It will take years to get right.

So enough of the Happy Clappy, it will be alright, aren't we great, nonsense.

And I don't think you could ask for two worse or more incompetent politicians than Harris and Varadkar to lead this. We have seen their approach to accountability and openness recently.

Varadkar wasn't even aware of the Cervical Smear scandal when he was minister for Health. So much for being on top of your brief.

Read mine and others posts since you started to go off on this tangent. Your points were addressed. Inspections, qualified staff, what will happen if...what about this....what about that...what if pigs could fly.

All bar the last one have been countered with facts.

Loafing Oaf · 01-06-2018 01:38PM

Shadowstrife wrote: »

I want to ask if anyone has heard anti-Donegal sentiment, sniggering,snobbery or cheap jokes since the result. Please elaborate, thanks!

I hear 'Dueling Banjos' has been adopted as the county anthem...

01-06-2018 01:40PM

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Re: Donegal - We TogetherForYes-ers put in a titantic effort for Repeal up here in the hills.

A few reasons why Donegal voted No by a very tiny margin.

Our TogetherforYes members were assaulted in Letterkenny on Saturday night; threatened with serious bodily harm on several occasions. I was thumped and abused verbally on local streets. Those blows don't hurt me. But the redrawing of constituencies in Donegal dealt us a huge blow. Our Ballyshannon & Bundoran votes had been gobbled up by our neighbour counties.

Also, emigrant youth. People in my age group. All are abroad, or down south in cities. They marked 'X' in the Yes box there, but are Donegal to their core.

Fair play to ya, but I wouldn't let any jokes about your county get you down. For example people don't think that everyone from Kerry automatically supports rapists just because a good few people lined up to hug and shake the hand of one convicted in court. I'm sure gay people from Roscommon still love their county and those they know still living there despite the county voted No to SSM.

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 01:44PM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

I’m sure he’s devastated.

You seem to have conveniently ignored where I informed you that medical staff already train in abortion services. Not to mention the medical staff who would have worked abroad gained experience there. Also not to mention the many foreign doctors and nurses working in our hospitals who come from countries where abortions are routinely performed.

By all means carry on cherry picking which information you want to address.

Not ignoring you cupcake. Numerous posters to respond to. When I respond to a few, there is always one or two others who says "why are you ignoring me?". So it was nothing personal.

I doubt he will sleep tonight haha.

I think you will agree that just as no two pregnancies are the same, no two abortion scenarios are the same re the mother or the baby. The mother may have a medical condition such as diabetes, high blood pressure, or others. Taking two pills may not be the answer and it becomes a case of surgery.

Some women if they do take the two pills will react differently to others.

There's the potential for botched surgery where the abortion is not completed effectively. There is the risk of sepsis in many cases.

There is the prescribing of medicines afterwards.

There are I think you will agree numerous different scenarios at play, often complex ones.

And we don't have the experience for it here.

Its not enough to have the occasional doctor here or there with experience. The whole thing has to be properly coordinated and lead by experts and operated by dedicated experts. Recruitment I can see being a problem. They are struggling with recruitment and training in the UK according to the report I posted. I can't see it being different here.

If mass provision of abortion is provided I want it open and transparent with all the stats published at the end of the year to see how we are progressing and also proper oversight.

As for putting people on ignore, only as a last resort. I'm also getting tired of the Happy Clappy, I love abortion types as are most of the country. Time to move on from that nonsense.

ArmaniJeanss · 01-06-2018 01:47PM

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Re: Donegal - We TogetherForYes-ers put in a titantic effort for Repeal up here in the hills.

A few reasons why Donegal voted No by a very tiny margin.

Our TogetherforYes members were assaulted in Letterkenny on Saturday night; threatened with serious bodily harm on several occasions. I was thumped and abused verbally on local streets. Those blows don't hurt me. But the redrawing of constituencies in Donegal dealt us a huge blow. Our Ballyshannon & Bundoran votes had been gobbled up by our neighbour counties.

Also, emigrant youth. People in my age group. All are abroad, or down south in cities. They marked 'X' in the Yes box there, but are Donegal to their core.

I thought it was a great % - we were churning numbers in here on the Wednesday as to what was needed in each constituency for an overall Yes and reckoned the Donegal 'target' was around 37% Yes, and there were people on both sides saying that was unlikely. Yet it was smashed by 11%, and as you said the county likely voted Yes even if the constituency (shorn of Bundoran etc) was ultimately No.
Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of getting that Vote under difficult circumstances.

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 01:51PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

He has disengaged, is unable to discuss at a basic level, and ignored every response. This has resulted in him cutting and pasting his post again. Even resorting to telling us that we are the ones with our fingers in our ears. Totally confusing.

FFS grow up. I responded to Cupcake.

woejus · 01-06-2018 01:52PM

this thread

Fighting Tao · 01-06-2018 03:12PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

FFS grow up. I responded to Cupcake.

Chill out and stop with the personal attacks. You have been repeating and expecting everyone to respond each time differently.

spookwoman · 01-06-2018 03:18PM

Graces7 wrote: »

This was about abortion not RCC. About babies not about scoring points.

LOL this coming from the same poster that posted

Graces7 wrote: »

No they did not! Read posts here. Churches and folk of faith have every right and need to oppose abortion. Democracy allows that.

And a third of the population is a sizaeble NO!

and

Graces7 wrote: »

Not quite sure of the nuances of your words? In the Didache, 1st century Christian teaching, abortion is forbidden,

BUT it is not an exclusively religious common sense ideal of course. Simple humanity and respect for life.

She never did get back to me on the about the churches history on abortion.

Bishop of Waterford was on WLRFM this morning and got caught out a few time

waiting for podcast to go up and will link it

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 03:30PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Chill out and stop with the personal attacks. You have been repeating and expecting everyone to respond each time differently.

Just think it was a bit odd that you chose to criticize me while I was in the middle of writing up a long reply to Cupcake. You got plenty of thanks for it too which is hardly surprising.
I must have replied to 7 or 8 different posters, inevitably I will miss one or two, not deliberately but due to time pressures.
People have jobs and also a life outside boards.ie. This explains why someone doesn't respond immediately to another poster, it certainly does in my case.
So a bit of patience wouldn't go astray.
I'm not expecting an apology from you but I will apologize to you.
I think we all need to dial back on playing the posters rather than the post and also stereotyping one side or the other as being all the same.
Unfortunately I have received a second infraction, so I am probably on my last legs on this thread.

It wasnt me123 · 01-06-2018 04:11PM

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Re: Donegal - We TogetherForYes-ers put in a titantic effort for Repeal up here in the hills.
.......................
.

Well done for getting out and canvassing, there were quite a few Yes canvassars in other parts of the country who where abused by perfectly normaly looking people, bizarre really and nasty.

A few Donegal jokes but in good humour, no reflection on the Yes canvassars and their hard work. As the population ages and passes, these hardliners will disappear and I hope a more moderate population will ensue. Shure because of all these religious nasties, like the recent adoption mess, the paedophile priests etc, people making excuses for this sort of behaviour will also disappear and Ireland will be a different place.

Well done though, not easy raising the profile of a less than popular issue.

Shurimgreat · 01-06-2018 04:22PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

He has disengaged, is unable to discuss at a basic level, and ignored every response. This has resulted in him cutting and pasting his post again. Even resorting to telling us that we are the ones with our fingers in our ears. Totally confusing.

This post had numerous thanks at lunchtime.
I look again and they are all gone.
Odd.

ohnonotgmail · 01-06-2018 04:33PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This post had numerous thanks at lunchtime.
I look again and they are all gone.
Odd.

well that would be odd as it is not possible for a user to remove thanks that i can see. perhaps you are misinformed.

gctest50 · 01-06-2018 04:40PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

........

I think you will agree that just as no two pregnancies are the same, no two abortion scenarios are the same re the mother or the baby. The mother may have a medical condition such as diabetes, high blood pressure, or others. Taking two pills may not be the answer and it becomes a case of surgery. .,.............

Some women if they do take the two pills will react differently to others. ..............

There is the prescribing of medicines afterwards.

There are I think you will agree numerous different scenarios at play, often complex ones.

.

All outstanding reasons why women in Ireland need access to terminations without travelling on a plane or boat

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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