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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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    #5402
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    They're just trying to create a narrative that they're being silenced. Never mind the fact that opposing and even ridiculing other people's ideas doesn't amount to silencing them.

    No, but at the same time ridiculing people's posts and acting hysterical and immature so often does not encourage discussion.


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    #5403
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    be prepared for push back from the no campaign, it ll probably get nasty

    What can they possibly do that will make any difference though? The great majority of TDs have declared their intention to support the draft legislation, and once that passes the issue will be as settled as divorce, same-sex marriage etc.


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    #5404
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    They're just trying to create a narrative that they're being silenced. Never mind the fact that opposing and even ridiculing other people's ideas doesn't amount to silencing them.
    http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/05/24/were-being-silenced-no-side-confirm-during-1145th-media-appearance/


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    #5405
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    As I said, immature posts like this are pretty much the reason the thread has died and become little more than a Yes side circle jerk that most No siders wouldn't touch with the longest of barge poles. :)

    Still waiting on the scientific data sources from yourself that show the laws regards access to abortion in the UK are regularly being broken in your opinion.

    So far I got a link to a pro life website, which was debunked during the previous threads before the vote. And a link to a page on reproductivechoices arguing against a proposal in the UK to reduce from 24 to 20 weeks.


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    #5406
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    As I said, immature posts like this are pretty much the reason the thread has died and become little more than a Yes side circle jerk that most No siders wouldn't touch with the longest of barge poles. :)

    Why would any rational minded No poster even bother posting here? The referendum is over. Yes won. There is little to be gained from any No arguments at this point. Most people have grasped that except for a select few gas tickets on this thread


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    #5407
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Why would any rational minded No poster even bother posting here? The referendum is over. Yes won. There is little to be gained from any No arguments at this point. Most people have grasped that except for a select few gas tickets on this thread

    I think it should be: "There is nothing to be gained from any No arguments at this point."


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    #5408
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Hardly as you call it. Basic arithmetic....

    Hi your Grace welcome back. Since you dodged it the last time, do you want to enlighten us all as to why you thanked a post that stated women who have abortions should have their wombs forcibly removed?


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    #5409
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Graces7 wrote: »
    This was about abortion not RCC. About babies not about scoring points.

    Thought it was loveboth? I notice the mothers life didn't feature in your consideration.


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    #5410
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Hi your Grace welcome back. Since you dodged it the last time, do you want to enlighten us all as to why you thanked a post that stated women who have abortions should have their wombs forcibly removed?

    It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

    Peace my dear. Peace now ....

    Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..


    Bye bye


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    #5411
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Wrongway1985 wrote: »
    Thought it was loveboth? I notice the mothers life didn't feature in your consideration.

    :rolleyes:

    Have a truly lovely June day as we intend to do.... Bye bye


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    #5412
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Graces7 wrote: »
    It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

    Peace my dear. Peace now ....

    Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..


    Bye bye

    Oh of course come in and say your bit and run away once challenged as usual. “It is an opinion many hold” forced womb removal for those who’ve had abortions? Wouldn’t say many hold that opinion at all your Grace. Telling.


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    #5413
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Graces7 wrote: »
    It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

    Peace my dear. Peace now ....

    Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..


    Bye bye
    Wait, before you go. Didn’t you just say in the thread about veils being banned in Denmark that everyone should respect other people’s choices and to “stop interfering and putting your values on” other people. So where do you think you have a right or a say over my womb? My life? My health? My unborn child?


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    #5414
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »
    No, but at the same time ridiculing people's posts and acting hysterical and immature so often does not encourage discussion.

    I don't see what there is left to discuss, to be perfectly honest. Those in favour of retaining the 8th had 35 years to come up with a more workable solution. There wasn't even an attempt to talk about doing so until the last couple of weeks pre-referendum when they realised their side was going to lose.


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    #5415
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Forced womb removal for “sluts”
    Penis amputation for priests so they’re not tempted to rape children or vulnerable women being held captive in laundries
    Forced procreation on nuns like a good catholic woman should. Min 10 children each.


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    #5416
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ariya Calm Curve wrote: »
    Forced womb removal for “sluts”
    Penis amputation for priests so they’re not tempted to rape children or vulnerable women being held captive in laundries
    Forced procreation on nuns like a good catholic woman should. Min 10 children each.
    I presume you've seen this dystopian take on procreation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)
    If not you should, as it fits exactly what you describe
    Maybe some of the NO side will prefer a scenario like that


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    #5417
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    gmisk wrote: »
    Anyone any idea when these ICBR people are shipping back to wherever they came from?
    They were at Heuston station this morning, the scumbags.

    Kind of random sites they're picking isn't it? What next, a black-clad mob at the Ballsbridge coffee kiosk?:p


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    #5418
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Graces7 wrote: »
    It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

    Peace my dear. Peace now ....

    Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..


    Bye bye

    That’s.... that’s just grim. In every regard.


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    #5419
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force. :)


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    #5420
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I presume you've seen this dystopian take on procreation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)
    If not you should, as it fits exactly what you describe
    Maybe some of the NO side will prefer a scenario like that
    That’s what should be done with the mickey dodging nuns, fill up those empty monstrosities they call convents.


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    #5421
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force. :)

    Yeah, a ratio of 4 or 5 yes posters for every no poster. A similar ratio to the which no was defeated by in the age demographic typically found on boards. Funny that.

    You say out in force, I say an accurate representation of the electorate.


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    #5422
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force. :)

    And isn't just like a No voter not to be able to provide scientific data to back up their opinion and ignore multiple requests for it ;)


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    #5423
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force. :)

    When the post is from someone who advocates forced womb removal for women who have abortions it’s warranted.


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    #5424
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    And isn't just like a No voter not to be able to provide scientific data to back up their opinion and ignore multiple requests for it ;)

    They don't have to provide data, because the big bad yes side are bullying them and that's more important than facts.

    Welcome to debating, Iona style.


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    #5425
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,323 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    This thread is actually hilarious at this stage.
    The Yes side complains that No siders won't respond or post on the thread.
    The odd No sider attempts it.
    They are subjected to immature attacks like the one below.
    They stop bothering to post on the thread.
    The Yes sides start complaining again that No siders won't post.
    And you wonder why most No siders don't bother?


    On the other hand, there are no-siders like yourself, who don't seem to engage at all in the main subject but litter every post with a dig at the yes side.

    There are two sides at it.


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    #5426
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    blanch152 wrote: »
    On the other hand, there are no-siders like yourself, who don't seem to engage at all in the main subject but litter every post with a dig at the yes side.

    There are two sides at it.

    No, there’s ONE side at it. The last few pages being a perfect representation of that. A no sider asks a question, gets an answer they don’t like so just complains that they didn’t get an answer and goes on posting random crap to get a dig in.


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    #5427
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    They don't have to provide data, because the big bad yes side are bullying them and that's more important than facts.

    Welcome to debating, Iona style.

    The OP says they are an atheist and I've no reason to say that they are not.

    The atheist threads on here take issue with Iona and can be pretty much one way threads in discussing their influence on society, and the general flow is that it's not helpful to put it politely, but in the OP's opinion this thread is just Iona bashing.


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    #5428
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,323 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    pleas advice wrote: »
    all I'm asking, and it shouldn't be too hard to answer, is: is there even one case where a woman died, where the death was inevitable because of the 8th. (ie. the doctors did all they possibly could, within the law, and still the patient died) where she wouldn't have died otherwise?


    According to the doctors, there was.

    https://medium.com/athena-talks/ireland-has-a-law-that-kills-women-8fe484fab9e0


    "Chair of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Dr Peter Boylan stated that the 8th amendment had caused “grave harm to women, including death” in two cases he was aware of, Miss P and Savita Halappanarvar."

    "In 2010 Michelle Harte was advised by doctors treating her for cancer at Cork University Hospital to terminate the pregnancy, because of the risks to her health. The hospital’s ethics forum took 2 weeks to decide not to allow her to have an abortion, saying her life was not under ‘ immediate threat.’

    It took Michelle a further three weeks to make travel arrangements to have an abortion in the UK as she had to arrange a passport.

    “Getting to London proved very stressful, as she was very ill. She had to be helped on to the aircraft due to her deteriorating condition.”

    Due to her pregnancy the hospital refused to treat her cancer and during the pregnancy her cancer became much more aggressive and spread to her brain. Michelle died a few months later."


    The reality is that many women's lives have been curtailed or diminished because of the 8th. Your position is that a woman should suffer any amount of pain or life-shortening issues so that a potential life should be born. That is not balanced.


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    #5429
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    The OP says they are an atheist and I've no reason to say that they are not.

    The atheist threads on here take issue with Iona and can be pretty much one way threads in discussing their influence on society, in that it's not helpful to be polite in those threads, but in the OP's opinion this thread is just Iona bashing.

    Atheist or not, the approach being taken of ignoring attempts to discuss facts and data while claiming the other side isn't giving them a platform is very much the Iona style of debate.


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    #5430
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    Mrtestosterone wrote: »
    Well looks like abortion on demand won't be available anymore, surprise surprise

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/independent-td-plans-amendments-that-could-delay-abortion-law-36967331.html

    They can delay all they like, there are enough TDs who voted yes or have committed to not delaying the legislation to push it through. Mattie McGrath is a fossil, even though he is my own local TD and has a very good machine behind him to ensure that all local issues get dealt with immediately, his time is numbered and he should agree to the legislation with good grace. I will have no problem banging on his local office door if he starts acting the maggot on it.


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    #5431
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    They can delay all they like, there are enough TDs who voted yes or have committed to not delaying the legislation to push it through. Mattie McGrath is a fossil, even though he is my own local TD and has a very good machine behind him to ensure that all local issues get dealt with immediately, his time is numbered and he should agree to the legislation with good grace. I will have no problem banging on his local office door if he starts acting the maggot on it.
    There is a way to delay legislation going through by tabling amendments and then talking incessantly about them; the Healy-Raes are currently doing it to block stricter drink-driving laws.

    There is a process called "guillotining" where a Dail can vote to put a fixed time limit on all debate on a bill after which they move forward to vote on the bill.

    This is unpopular and Fine Gael have promised to not do it - it has in the past been abused by majority governments to force through legislation without enough discussion; the tyranny of the majority.

    However, the opposite is clearly an issue - a tyranny of a minority - who can endlessly delay legislation just because they don't like it. This is not common because constituents will often crucify you for wasting time like this. As would happen to Mattie, but not so much for the Kerry lads.

    Chances are they will have to bring back the "guillotine" to get the abortion and road traffic bills through, but maybe look for higher majorities; 66% or 75%; so that it can be used to strongarm important legislation through, but can't be abused by a government.


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