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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

Ozymandius2011

This is for people who have already voted in the referendum. How did you vote? I voted yes.

Mod: This thread is little more than a survey about how you voted. Please don't the ins and outs of abortion.

Mod: This is not a reiteration of the previous 8th threads. If you were threadbanned from those, you are not threadbanned here.

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Loafing Oaf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

be prepared for push back from the no campaign, it ll probably get nasty

What can they possibly do that will make any difference though? The great majority of TDs have declared their intention to support the draft legislation, and once that passes the issue will be as settled as divorce, same-sex marriage etc.

ELM327

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

They're just trying to create a narrative that they're being silenced. Never mind the fact that opposing and even ridiculing other people's ideas doesn't amount to silencing them.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/05/24/were-being-silenced-no-side-confirm-during-1145th-media-appearance/

[Deleted User]

Shurimgreat wrote: »

As I said, immature posts like this are pretty much the reason the thread has died and become little more than a Yes side circle jerk that most No siders wouldn't touch with the longest of barge poles.

Still waiting on the scientific data sources from yourself that show the laws regards access to abortion in the UK are regularly being broken in your opinion.

So far I got a link to a pro life website, which was debunked during the previous threads before the vote. And a link to a page on reproductivechoices arguing against a proposal in the UK to reduce from 24 to 20 weeks.

retro:electro

Shurimgreat wrote: »

As I said, immature posts like this are pretty much the reason the thread has died and become little more than a Yes side circle jerk that most No siders wouldn't touch with the longest of barge poles.

Why would any rational minded No poster even bother posting here? The referendum is over. Yes won. There is little to be gained from any No arguments at this point. Most people have grasped that except for a select few gas tickets on this thread

Fighting Tao

retro:electro wrote: »

Why would any rational minded No poster even bother posting here? The referendum is over. Yes won. There is little to be gained from any No arguments at this point. Most people have grasped that except for a select few gas tickets on this thread

I think it should be: "There is nothing to be gained from any No arguments at this point."

retro:electro

Graces7 wrote: »

Hardly as you call it. Basic arithmetic....

Hi your Grace welcome back. Since you dodged it the last time, do you want to enlighten us all as to why you thanked a post that stated women who have abortions should have their wombs forcibly removed?

Wrongway1985

Graces7 wrote: »

This was about abortion not RCC. About babies not about scoring points.

Thought it was loveboth? I notice the mothers life didn't feature in your consideration.

Graces7

retro:electro wrote: »

Hi your Grace welcome back. Since you dodged it the last time, do you want to enlighten us all as to why you thanked a post that stated women who have abortions should have their wombs forcibly removed?

It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

Peace my dear. Peace now ....

Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..

Bye bye

Graces7

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Thought it was loveboth? I notice the mothers life didn't feature in your consideration.

:rolleyes:

Have a truly lovely June day as we intend to do.... Bye bye

retro:electro

Graces7 wrote: »

It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

Peace my dear. Peace now ....

Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..

Bye bye

Oh of course come in and say your bit and run away once challenged as usual. “It is an opinion many hold” forced womb removal for those who’ve had abortions? Wouldn’t say many hold that opinion at all your Grace. Telling.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Graces7 wrote: »

It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

Peace my dear. Peace now ....

Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..

Bye bye

Wait, before you go. Didn’t you just say in the thread about veils being banned in Denmark that everyone should respect other people’s choices and to “stop interfering and putting your values on” other people. So where do you think you have a right or a say over my womb? My life? My health? My unborn child?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Forced womb removal for “sluts”
Penis amputation for priests so they’re not tempted to rape children or vulnerable women being held captive in laundries
Forced procreation on nuns like a good catholic woman should. Min 10 children each.

ELM327

Ariya Calm Curve wrote: »

Forced womb removal for “sluts”
Penis amputation for priests so they’re not tempted to rape children or vulnerable women being held captive in laundries
Forced procreation on nuns like a good catholic woman should. Min 10 children each.

I presume you've seen this dystopian take on procreation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)
If not you should, as it fits exactly what you describe
Maybe some of the NO side will prefer a scenario like that

Loafing Oaf

gmisk wrote: »

Anyone any idea when these ICBR people are shipping back to wherever they came from?
They were at Heuston station this morning, the scumbags.

Kind of random sites they're picking isn't it? What next, a black-clad mob at the Ballsbridge coffee kiosk?:p

Cupcake_Crisis

Graces7 wrote: »

It was not of course stated like that. And frankly if you cannot work that out no one can explain it to you..it is an opinion many hold and have a right to hold

Peace my dear. Peace now ....

Far too lovely weather for dispute, for sensible adult folk..

Bye bye

That’s.... that’s just grim. In every regard.

Shurimgreat

Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

ELM327 wrote: »

I presume you've seen this dystopian take on procreation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)
If not you should, as it fits exactly what you describe
Maybe some of the NO side will prefer a scenario like that

That’s what should be done with the mickey dodging nuns, fill up those empty monstrosities they call convents.

[Deleted User]

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force.

And isn't just like a No voter not to be able to provide scientific data to back up their opinion and ignore multiple requests for it

Cupcake_Crisis

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Nothing like a post from a No Sider to bring reactionary Yes siders out in force.

When the post is from someone who advocates forced womb removal for women who have abortions it’s warranted.

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This thread is actually hilarious at this stage.
The Yes side complains that No siders won't respond or post on the thread.
The odd No sider attempts it.
They are subjected to immature attacks like the one below.
They stop bothering to post on the thread.
The Yes sides start complaining again that No siders won't post.
And you wonder why most No siders don't bother?

On the other hand, there are no-siders like yourself, who don't seem to engage at all in the main subject but litter every post with a dig at the yes side.

There are two sides at it.

Cupcake_Crisis

blanch152 wrote: »

On the other hand, there are no-siders like yourself, who don't seem to engage at all in the main subject but litter every post with a dig at the yes side.

There are two sides at it.

No, there’s ONE side at it. The last few pages being a perfect representation of that. A no sider asks a question, gets an answer they don’t like so just complains that they didn’t get an answer and goes on posting random crap to get a dig in.

[Deleted User]

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

They don't have to provide data, because the big bad yes side are bullying them and that's more important than facts.

Welcome to debating, Iona style.

The OP says they are an atheist and I've no reason to say that they are not.

The atheist threads on here take issue with Iona and can be pretty much one way threads in discussing their influence on society, and the general flow is that it's not helpful to put it politely, but in the OP's opinion this thread is just Iona bashing.

blanch152

pleas advice wrote: »

all I'm asking, and it shouldn't be too hard to answer, is: is there even one case where a woman died, where the death was inevitable because of the 8th. (ie. the doctors did all they possibly could, within the law, and still the patient died) where she wouldn't have died otherwise?

According to the doctors, there was.

https://medium.com/athena-talks/ireland-has-a-law-that-kills-women-8fe484fab9e0

"Chair of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Dr Peter Boylan stated that the 8th amendment had caused “grave harm to women, including death” in two cases he was aware of, Miss P and Savita Halappanarvar."

"In 2010 Michelle Harte was advised by doctors treating her for cancer at Cork University Hospital to terminate the pregnancy, because of the risks to her health. The hospital’s ethics forum took 2 weeks to decide not to allow her to have an abortion, saying her life was not under ‘ immediate threat.’

It took Michelle a further three weeks to make travel arrangements to have an abortion in the UK as she had to arrange a passport.

“Getting to London proved very stressful, as she was very ill. She had to be helped on to the aircraft due to her deteriorating condition.”

Due to her pregnancy the hospital refused to treat her cancer and during the pregnancy her cancer became much more aggressive and spread to her brain. Michelle died a few months later."

The reality is that many women's lives have been curtailed or diminished because of the 8th. Your position is that a woman should suffer any amount of pain or life-shortening issues so that a potential life should be born. That is not balanced.

It wasnt me123

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

Well looks like abortion on demand won't be available anymore, surprise surprise

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/independent-td-plans-amendments-that-could-delay-abortion-law-36967331.html

They can delay all they like, there are enough TDs who voted yes or have committed to not delaying the legislation to push it through. Mattie McGrath is a fossil, even though he is my own local TD and has a very good machine behind him to ensure that all local issues get dealt with immediately, his time is numbered and he should agree to the legislation with good grace. I will have no problem banging on his local office door if he starts acting the maggot on it.

seamus

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

They can delay all they like, there are enough TDs who voted yes or have committed to not delaying the legislation to push it through. Mattie McGrath is a fossil, even though he is my own local TD and has a very good machine behind him to ensure that all local issues get dealt with immediately, his time is numbered and he should agree to the legislation with good grace. I will have no problem banging on his local office door if he starts acting the maggot on it.

There is a way to delay legislation going through by tabling amendments and then talking incessantly about them; the Healy-Raes are currently doing it to block stricter drink-driving laws.

There is a process called "guillotining" where a Dail can vote to put a fixed time limit on all debate on a bill after which they move forward to vote on the bill.

This is unpopular and Fine Gael have promised to not do it - it has in the past been abused by majority governments to force through legislation without enough discussion; the tyranny of the majority.

However, the opposite is clearly an issue - a tyranny of a minority - who can endlessly delay legislation just because they don't like it. This is not common because constituents will often crucify you for wasting time like this. As would happen to Mattie, but not so much for the Kerry lads.

Chances are they will have to bring back the "guillotine" to get the abortion and road traffic bills through, but maybe look for higher majorities; 66% or 75%; so that it can be used to strongarm important legislation through, but can't be abused by a government.

It wasnt me123

erica74 wrote: »

Anyone in McGrath's constituency should lobby him about not delaying the new legislation. It has been 35 years, we've waited long enough.......

Done, I have just emailed his office, they are a very efficient machine and I expect a reply today (but I'm working so may not be able to report back today).

He is an astute politician and he knows Tipperary (and Newcastle) voted Yes so hopefully he won't be a bo**ix.

I hope the Together for Yes people are still around to placard the offices of the TDs holding up this very important legislation.

Shurimgreat

The UK has 50 years experience in providing abortion services.
They perform close to 190,000 a year.
Many are performed at clinics such as Marie Stopes.
These are run by professionals in the field with decades and decades of experience.
More importantly the abortion services industry is highly regulated with significant oversight.

And yet despite all this, there are many problems with the industry in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4783694/Nearly-400-botched-abortions-two-months-Marie-Stopes.html

So you think we are going to hit the ground running over here, what with our record of abysmal healthcare and laughable oversight. You only have to look at the recent cervical check scandal to see how transparency and oversight is handled.

So by all means run with abortion here.

If my partner ever required an abortion in extreme circumstances such as FFA I would still be heading to the UK to get it carried out. I wouldn't trust the Irish healthcare system or grossly incompetent politicians like Harris and Varadkar who are still ducking and diving when it comes to dealing with the women of the cervical checking scandal.

ohnonotgmail

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The UK has 50 years experience in providing abortion services.
They perform close to 190,000 a year.
Many are performed at clinics such as Marie Stopes.
These are run by professionals in the field with decades and decades of experience.
More importantly the abortion services industry is highly regulated with significant oversight.

And yet despite all this, there are many problems with the industry in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4783694/Nearly-400-botched-abortions-two-months-Marie-Stopes.html

So you think we are going to hit the ground running over here, what with our record of abysmal healthcare and laughable oversight. You only have to look at the recent cervical check scandal to see how transparency and oversight is handled.

So by all means run with abortion here.

If my partner ever required an abortion in extreme circumstances such as FFA I would still be heading to the UK to get it carried out. I wouldn't trust the Irish healthcare system or grossly incompetent politicians like Harris and Varadkar who are still ducking and diving when it comes to dealing with the women of the cervical checking scandal.

if your partner was pregnant would you trust the irish health service to deliver that baby?

retro:electro

Ariya Calm Curve wrote: »

Wait, before you go. Didn’t you just say in the thread about veils being banned in Denmark that everyone should respect other people’s choices and to “stop interfering and putting your values on” other people. So where do you think you have a right or a say over my womb? My life? My health? My unborn child?

Gospel according to Grace
Forced womb removal: okay
Forced veil removal: not okay

ELM327

retro:electro wrote: »

Gospel according to Grace
Forced womb removal: okay
Forced veil removal: not okay

enforced pregnancy - ok
termination - not ok
help once the child is born - none, resort to slut shaming

Glory to you, oh grace.