The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 02:47PM

spookwoman wrote: »

My other concern is if its a no whats going to happen when brexit kicks in

We will end up with modern day Nurse Caddens.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 24-05-2018 02:50PM

Mrhuth wrote: »

And I will vote yes to counteract your no. You said things aren't black and white yet you're going to vote no and force the almost 2000 women to go UK to get an abortion? You're an idiot.

Mod note: Mrhuth, don't post in this thread again.

Buford T. Justice

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2018 02:51PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

How can a second party be involved in that decision, in a practical or legal sense?

Does each parent get 1 vote? What happens in a draw?

Extra time and penalties.

Macha · 24-05-2018 02:52PM

deejer wrote: »

My kids became real to me when I found out my wife was pregnant. They were certainly real when we went for the first scan which happened between the 10-12 week mark. At that time they had an equal right to life, same as me, my wife, or anyone else. I strongly believe everyone deserves that right.

I had a miscarriage last year at 12 weeks. I mourned for that lost potential baby. My mother also passed away last year and I am utterly devastated. Are both losses equal to me? No, and nor are they equal to most people.

deejer wrote: »

Also, in my opinion, I don't believe women should have bodily autonomy when it comes to the pregnancy. I think it is too simple to show this as a human rights issue. I believe pregnancy creates a responsibility on the woman to care for the unborn baby. I know - easy for me to say as a man. But that's my opinion.

If your logic is that no one should have bodily autonomy when a life is at risk, I assume you support forced organ donation for all adults and children because it can save lives. You can live with one kidney no problem, right?

deejer wrote: »

I know there are a multitude of situations where things aren't black and white and where difficult decision have to be made. The constitution as it is, isn't perfect and making the change isn't going to resolve all the issues either - far from it. But we have to approach resolving these issues maintaining our core principles. For me the right to life of everyone, born and unborn is a core principle that should form the basis of how we approach resolving these issues.

You're voting for the status quo which means abortion happens in Ireland, it's just illegal, unsafe and unregulated and puts women's lives at risk.

AlexisM · 24-05-2018 02:53PM

deejer wrote: »

I am voting no tomorrow. I am male, a father and in my 30's. I am not particularly religious (I am saying that to make a point that it is not a factor in my decision).

If your wife was say 6 weeks pregnant when she found out she had a heart condition that meant the pregnancy would put intolerable strain on her body and she would have permanent heart damage - not going to kill her any time soon but permanent damage so she couldn't run around after your kids and might need a transplant in 5/10/20 years.
Or if she was diabetic and might go blind as a result of the continuing pregnancy?
You would still prefer she continue the pregnancy?

spookwoman · 24-05-2018 02:53PM

deejer wrote: »

Also, in my opinion, I don't believe women should have bodily autonomy when it comes to the pregnancy. I think it is too simple to show this as a human rights issue. I believe pregnancy creates a responsibility on the woman to care for the unborn baby. I know - easy for me to say as a man. But that's my opinion.

It's sexist and misogynistic. It's against human rights as pointed out in 2 recent cases where Ireland was found to breach of these

States’ obligations to respect, protect, and fulfill human rights includes areas of sexual and reproductive health and autonomy. Where access to safe and legal abortion services are unreasonably restricted, a number of human rights may be at risk. These include:

Right to life
Rights to health and health care
Right to information
Rights to nondiscrimination and equality
Right to be free from cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment
Right to privacy
Right to decide the number and spacing of children
Right to security of person
Right to liberty
Right to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress
Right to freedom of conscience and religion

Walter Bishop · 24-05-2018 03:01PM

deejer wrote: »

Also, in my opinion, I don't believe women should have bodily autonomy when it comes to the pregnancy.

Blessed be the fruit loops...

Nettle Soup · 24-05-2018 03:01PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

You forget the many of 'middle Ireland' will vote No. The elderly, the religious, many rural people, etc etc.

It will be very close.

Anyone who see's a landslide to Yes is away with the fairies.

Nobody said landslide. I would predict 58/42.

Cantona's Collars · 24-05-2018 03:02PM

Saw a young woman earlier today with Yes badges on her backpack,in her hand she had a copy of The Handmaid's Tale.
I was laughing to myself that maybe she was reading it to try to understand where some of the No campaign get their ideas.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 24-05-2018 03:03PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Back alley abortions and women dying as a result, the people who voted No will have those mother's blood on their hands

Mod note: c.p.w.g.w, don't post in this thread again,

Buford T. Justice

Frank Bullitt · 24-05-2018 03:05PM

Walked past 2 polling stations today, the amount of NO posters up now is bonkers. I can't wait for this to be over so we don't have to see that garbage plastered all over the place.

Ush1 · 24-05-2018 03:11PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Tumbleweed.

Well I didn't expect you to laugh, this is a war after all you're in.:cool:

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 03:12PM

wexie wrote: »

feeling down ≠ having depression

If you think that it's probably you that should try opening a book

I mentioned depression he wrote about in his book

Are you always so incredibly petty?.

Dont know the man but its funny people stating he claims depression does not exist when he wrote about it!.

Maybe hes a hypocrite. I dont know.

ittakestwo · 24-05-2018 03:13PM

spookwoman wrote: »

It's sexist and misogynistic. It's against human rights as pointed out in 2 recent cases where Ireland was found to breach of these

States’ obligations to respect, protect, and fulfill human rights includes areas of sexual and reproductive health and autonomy. Where access to safe and legal abortion services are unreasonably restricted, a number of human rights may be at risk. These include:

Right to life
Rights to health and health care
Right to information
Rights to nondiscrimination and equality
Right to be free from cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment
Right to privacy
Right to decide the number and spacing of children
Right to security of person
Right to liberty
Right to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress
Right to freedom of conscience and religion

Yeah mother nature was a very sexist women.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 03:14PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

I mentioned depression he wrote about in his book

Are you always so incredibly petty?.

Dont know the man but its funny people stating he claims depression does not exist when he wrote about it!.

Maybe hes a hypocrite. I dont know.

I think hypocrite would be a pretty mild assessment of him

Nettle Soup · 24-05-2018 03:14PM

Vlad Kelly wrote: »

Unfortunately kid just because you live in a libby echo chamber and all your friends are epic libs doesn't mean the whole country is. I'm literally all set to nut if the NO side wins!

I am making the assumption that the people of Ireland are reasonable compassionate people and understand that the status quo is not acceptable.
I think I will be proven correct.

Cantona's Collars · 24-05-2018 03:15PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Walked past 2 polling stations today, the amount of NO posters up now is bonkers. I can't wait for this to be over so we don't have to see that garbage plastered all over the place.

There's no posters, campaign stuff to be within 100 metres of polling stations on the day of the vote,if they are there tomorrow morning, report them.

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 03:16PM

....... wrote: »

Are you off your rocker?

If you dont own the body you are walking around in what do you own?

Your offensive comment above belies a frightening misogyny.

Hes making the point once pregnant there are two independent bodies involved I think.

Dont let that stop you twisting it into something it isn't though!? ; )

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 24-05-2018 03:18PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

I mentioned depression he wrote about in his book

Are you always so incredibly petty?.

Dont know the man but its funny people stating he claims depression does not exist when he wrote about it!.

Maybe hes a hypocrite. I dont know.

I don't think he's altogether well at the moment anyway. Get the impression his personal life has been quite difficult, kids and relationships etc.

He's also a thin skinned hypocrite who's said some fairly despicable things over the years. Honestly seems like someone who's temperamentally not suited to public life at all. I've known a few people like him but they weren't given a national platform to make a show of themselves.

Nettle Soup · 24-05-2018 03:19PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

The publication of the bill was more necessity than courage. It put a framework on the discussion and made it easier to counter No side exaggerations. Without it, their arguments could have gained a lot more traction.

I will give FG, and the independents in government, credit for the content of the bill though. They could have taken the easy road and said they'd limit changes to the exceptional cases. But they took the opportunity to propose a modernistation of our laws, and to bring us in line with the majority of Europe. I disagree with them on a vast number of things, but I have to recognise when they're doing good as well.

Getting the bill though the Oireachtas will be another days work but I reckon Varadkar and Harris are up to the task. I know now why Enda and previous Taoisigh didn't touch this long running issue.

uptherebels · 24-05-2018 03:19PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Hes making the point once pregnant there are two independent bodies involved I think.

Dont let that stop you twisting it into something it isn't though!? ; )

Except one isn't independent!

Akrasia · 24-05-2018 03:22PM

voz es wrote: »

Abortion leads to female healthcare, leads to female choice you wonder?

I think its as easily abused and mothers forced to abort their babies.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44237095

A horrific case but absolutely nothing to do with the debate here.

January · 24-05-2018 03:22PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Hes making the point once pregnant there are two independent bodies involved I think.

Dont let that stop you twisting it into something it isn't though!? ; )

One is independent. The other is dependent on the person it's living inside to give it nourishment and a place to grow until at least 23/24 weeks into the pregnancy.

Tell me again why they should be equal?

spookwoman · 24-05-2018 03:23PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

Yeah mother nature was a very sexist women.

Is there any legislation that targets men reproductive rights? Any mention of father or men in the 8th?

The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.

podgemonster · 24-05-2018 03:24PM

I called home and sat down with my mother at the weekend to watch the Late Late (don't judge me). She's rather conservative and I'm fairly certain she voted no in the SSM ref but that's another issue.

After I was informed of the local deaths, illness's and scandals in the locality there was a gap in conversation and I broached the subject of the referendum and asked "do you know what way you'll be voting Mam?"

She paused for a while and starred into her mug of tea.
"well....I suppose...women should have a choice. God forbid, if my own daughter came in the door here in trouble I think she should be able to get whatever care she needs here at home"

I was stunned, completely floored. I was expecting a back and forth between and YES and a NO but instead we found both of ourselves in agreement and for some reason more than a little teary eyed.

Up until that moment I was very pessimistic about the result, I saw another Trump, another Brexit. But I realize there are so many silent YES out there, parents and grandparents who know women deserve better.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2018 03:26PM

seamus wrote: »

Lots of boxes get opened at the same time, so they can give really early rural/urban tallies.

A morning after poll, if you will...

Bunny Colvin · 24-05-2018 03:30PM

A no vote is simply just burying your head in the sand.

Watching the debates and hearing from the No side about their alternatives to abortion, well it's obvious they're clueless.

Nobody likes abortion but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option for any woman. Let's trust Irish women to do what's right for themselves and their family.

I'm confident we'll get a big Yes vote tomorrow. I think this country is leaving the dark ages.

seamus · 24-05-2018 03:32PM

I stand corrected, apparently RTE are taking an exit poll tomorrow and Tubbers plans on discussing it on the Late Late after polls close:
http://www.thejournal.ie/rte-announce-exit-poll-result-late-late-show-4031688-May2018/

Still skeptical about the value of it, and if it does show a decisive Yes win, I'll actually be more nervous that the poll is wrong.

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 03:34PM

Jonas Tangy Pantry wrote: »

I don't think he's altogether well at the moment anyway. Get the impression his personal life has been quite difficult, kids and relationships etc.

He's also a thin skinned hypocrite who's said some fairly despicable things over the years. Honestly seems like someone who's temperamentally not suited to public life at all. I've known a few people like him but they weren't given a national platform to make a show of themselves.

Make a show of himself?. When?.

Hes a highly intelligent man. Perhaps mad as box of frogs but always hated that "made a show of yourself" phrase.

So incredibly backwards and judgemental and spiteful that phrase. Something bitter 80 year old women say to their husbands when they have had a few too many sherries.

He has raised 3 million for the Irish hospice foundation. Thats more than me or you will ever do for charity.

BabysCoffee · 24-05-2018 03:34PM

deejer wrote:

Also, in my opinion, I don't believe women should have bodily autonomy when it comes to the pregnancy. I think it is too simple to show this as a human rights issue. I believe pregnancy creates a responsibility on the woman to care for the unborn baby. I know - easy for me to say as a man. But that's my opinion.

Why stop at pregnant women, why not take bodily autonomy from all women?

Women are not people's property. Shame on you for this sexist misogynistic comment.

How would you feel if you didn't have bodily autonomy?

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Comments