Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

23-05-2018 07:39PM

Seeing that cocaine was a probable/possible factor in this tragedy, my crystal ball tells me that we will see more plain-clothes guards planted in suspected pubs etc, part of the fight against well-know criminal gangs.

23-05-2018 07:49PM

jiltloop wrote: »

I think you're really quite wide of the mark here. Drug abuse may end up being a small contributing factor but the main factor is that this was obviously a messed up/evil/mentally ill individual who committed these acts.

You come across as having an axe to grind and you're stuffing this whole awful event in a narrative that suits a chip you have on shoulder for whatever reason.

Sometimes severe/episodic mental illness combined with likes of cocaine can lead to very serious behavioral issues. There are people who would be normally decent and have a good moral compass in virtually all life situations, but when a mind-altering substance is consumed the personality can radically change. Some substances totally alter the mind of the healthiest individuals. If taken in high quantity a substance or combination thereof can have severe consequences to the functioning of the brain and mind.

AVFC.Stephen · 23-05-2018 07:52PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seeing that cocaine was a probable/possible factor in this tragedy, my crystal ball tells me that we will see more plain-clothes guards planted in suspected pubs etc, part of the fight against well-know criminal gangs.

I think those gangs are killing themselves and if the garda worked on the youth of today more so, we may see a better outcome.

Anyways I doubt a drug or a beer is to blame on this fully. To be so intimite killing someone first time round is apparently fairly rare as the amount of balls it takes to look a person in the eye while they tak there last breath is complete whacko

23-05-2018 07:56PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There are far more good people than bad . Thankfully

I think I meant “extraordinarily good people”. Most people are indeed good and decent. It will definitely help Jastine’s parents in a he short and long term. The costs involved in repatriation of Jastine’s remains have been met. Then her parents need the costs of a fair few flights to and from Philippines, and they will be able to avail of first class flights for their initial travel, where they will have peace and comfort, and attentiveness of flight attendants who will probably be informed of their circumstance.

23-05-2018 08:01PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not necessarily. Both psychopathy and sociopathy fall under the diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder. Psychopaths are born that way. It's not an illness but a, shall we say, dangerous personality type.

Yes indeed, this is true as we know it. Neuroscience has a huge amount to be discovered and maybe in the distant future we will have an insight to some of the factors that contribute to the likes of psychopathy. There might even be effective treatment, likely when I’m in my urn in Glasnevin.

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 08:02PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think I meant “extraordinarily good people”. Most people are indeed good and decent. It will definitely help Jastine’s parents in a he short and long term. The costs involved in repatriation of Jastune’s remains have been met. Then her parents need the costs of a fair few flights to and from Philippians, and they will be able to avail of first class flights for their initial travel, where they will have peace and comfort, and attentiveness of flight attendants who will probably be informed of their circumstance.

Ah yes you are right . I hope the fund also helps to show Jastines family that we support them and care

baldbear · 23-05-2018 08:06PM

So Hennessy was shot leaning down in the passenger seat .It's a pity his wish was fulfilled.

Strazdas · 23-05-2018 08:07PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Ah yes you are right . I hope the fund also helps to show Jastines family that we support them and care

I donated to the fund this evening. I know it's not much consolation to Jastine's family but it was the only way I could think of showing them some support.

Strazdas · 23-05-2018 08:11PM

baldbear wrote: »

So Hennessy was shot leaning down in the passenger seat .It's a pity his wish was fulfilled.

It sounds like the Gardai were unlucky that evening. They were merely trying to disable him in the hope he could be incapacitated and subsequently arrested and charged but the one bullet did too much damage.

Also, they had no idea where Jastine was at this point and would have been trying to take the killer alive.

TomOnBoard · 23-05-2018 08:15PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thankfully there are as many great people in the world as there are evil people.

Waaaay more great people in the world than evil or bad IMHO. At least I really want/ need to believe that....

Faugheen · 23-05-2018 08:15PM

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 08:18PM

Faugheen wrote: »

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

I agree . And we have often said here that sometimes RTE show funerals of gang members and you would think they were celebrites

Strazdas · 23-05-2018 08:21PM

Faugheen wrote: »

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

Yes, I'd rather hear much more about Jastine and her life. Her full life story both in the Philippines and Ireland, what sort of a person she was, who her close friends and family were and their thoughts about her etc. I'm less interested in hearing details about that other yoke.

North inner city hoodlum · 23-05-2018 08:22PM

<snip>

Mod note:Too soon, way, way too soon!

23-05-2018 08:22PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Ah yes you are right . I hope the fund also helps to show Jastines family that we support them and care

It certainly will show that Irish society is very caring when it comes to such awful situations.

The Talking Bread · 23-05-2018 08:24PM

North inner city hoodlum wrote: »

,snip>

what goes through your head?

snotboogie · 23-05-2018 08:25PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, it's not going to turn a calm and peace loving person into a cold blooded killer. At most, it might make them a bit manic and hyper and louder than normal.

There is quite a difference between someone after a few lines on a Saturday night in the pub and a chronic addict near the end of a manic week long binge

North inner city hoodlum · 23-05-2018 08:26PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

what goes through your head?

F**king nothing its quite obvious

I asked just curious!

Its plate is know country wide.

The Talking Bread · 23-05-2018 08:28PM

Faugheen wrote: »

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

Not alone in any way or form but pointless debate as sadly the story is now about him and poor Jastine is merely a side character for most.

The Talking Bread · 23-05-2018 08:48PM

Thank God that post has been removed. You should be ashamed of yourself getting a kick out of these theories. Imagine being her family and friends looking at posts like that

frankythefish · 23-05-2018 08:49PM

eviltwin wrote: »

why is that so hard to believe?

I was just responding to a comment which I believe mod has just deleted, and I have hence deleted my response.

Kuva · 23-05-2018 09:25PM

Yesterday we were told he was shot 3 times running at a guard while holding a knife and now it turns out he was shot sitting in his Car, why did they shot him at all?

allthedoyles · 23-05-2018 09:28PM

Just as I suspected , the shooting is on a cam :

Hennessy’s death was caught on camera footage from a garda traffic car at the scene

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/killer-hennessy-shot-dead-in-car-after-single-bullet-entered-torso-gsoc-statement-36939680.html

TomOnBoard · 23-05-2018 09:31PM

Faugheen wrote: »

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

Yeah, I certainly see the point...

However, this thread has grown out of the initial crime and was specifically oriented to looking out for the car with the Reg number provided by AGS in the hope that it might help in some way to finding Jastine in good health, and the capture of her assailant. Regrettably it all ended in tragedy with loss of life.

As events have unfolded, it has morphed into a mu!tiple topic thread that, in fairness, has provided a reasonably well mannered conversation around the perpetrator and his actions, probably thanks to good moderation and thread management along with largely respectful contributions. It has certainly focused on the perpetrator because there is a need on the part of the public to understand what happened, if that is even possible. It would, be entirely inappropriate to enter into any discussion about Jastine herself, her family or her circumstances at this time. And that's the difference.

All IMHO.

Deusexmachina · 23-05-2018 09:33PM

Faugheen wrote: »

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

It’s a bit more complicated than that. People want to know what drove this man to murder this girl. Understanding his behavior and motivations is very important.

He was not a monster. He was a relatively normal and ordinary man. I think that is why we are drawn to know more.

How can this happen? It’s a question we must ask.

donkeykong5 · 23-05-2018 09:49PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Watching the news tonight makes me a little uneasy.

Am I alone in thinking that this guy shouldn't get the attention he's getting? Whatever about naming him, but I don't know what him drinking and looking to buy drugs afterwards has anything to do with what happened to that poor woman.

I don't care about video footage of him buying the car a year ago, and I also don't care that he was a 'quiet man'.

What I do care about is that poor woman and what she had to go through, yet much of the attention is about him. F*ck him as far as I'm concerned.

It's the exact same thing that happened with Graham Dwyer and Alan Hawe, as well as many perpetrators of American school shootings.

It’s a bit more complicated than that. People want to know what drove this man to murder this girl. Understanding his behavior and motivations is very important.

He was not a monster. He was a relatively normal and ordinary man. I think that is why we are drawn to know more.

How can this happen? It’s a question we must ask.

You're definition of normal and ordinary man. Differ hugely from mine. I'm glad to say!

Deusexmachina · 23-05-2018 09:53PM

donkeykong5 wrote: »

You're definition of normal and ordinary man. Differ hugely from mine. I'm glad to say!

That’s unfair. My point is that he didn’t stand out in the crowd. A married man, two kids, ordinary job..etc.

His actions were horrific. My point is that we need to understand how this happens.

Thesomersarms · 23-05-2018 10:34PM

Have logged off here since the terrible news broke and have been catching up on the posts, what can one say in these situations, there are no words to explain only an emptiness after such an evil senseless act.

I see a lot of reference to him being possibly involved in previous murders and also compared to Murphy etc with experts in the newspapers being rolled out talking of comparisons to missing cases in Wicklow etc I however would be very surprised if this is the case and if his dna matches any of these cases, the m.o doesn’t match, murphy for example was caught at night in a very remote area obviously trying to avoid detection and was caught just by chance, that would certainly have been murder if he wasn’t disturbed, he showed no remorse and had this don’t give a **** attitude, a persona that fits more with calculated killlers.

This Hennesy character carries out an abduction in broad daylight for anyone to see, drove around recklessly for hours, went out drinking then self harms and leaves a note saying sorry, a different type of killer at play, I would say he was more an erratic time bomb waiting to go off and fuelled by substances and whatever else was going on his life he flipped and acted on his evil impulses and then couldn’t live with what he’d done. A killer nonetheless but a different type of character imo to the likes of Murphy.

Barry Badrinath · 23-05-2018 10:35PM

sightband wrote: »

Mark Hennessy was shot dead in the driver's seat of his car - GSOC statement http://jrnl.ie/4030864

Mark Hennessy was shot dead in the driver's seat of his car - GSOC statement

about time...see, now that helps just to get a little bit of clairifcatkon doesn’t it? before you got on your high horse snide patronising remark.

So GSOC have confirmed that Mr. Hennessy was in the vehicle when he was shot.

GSOC will now assess what actions led to the Detective using his weapon. AFAIK, there have been three reported reasons by the media.

1. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he believed the victim was in the vehicle and under imminent mortal threat. Which turned out not to be the case.

2. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as a result of Mr. Hennessy threatening and lunging at an unarmed AGS member with a stanley knife. This is not the case as Mr. Hennessey was contained and shot in the vehicle.

3. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he bent down in the footwell of the car, asessed as reaching for a firearm. This also turned out not to be the case.

Ultimately, the investigation may focus on the impact of the round, which has been reported as entering Mr. Hennessey's rear shoulder, which caused the fatality.

To most people it wont matter why he was shot as Mr. Hennessey's actions were deserving of that fate. The investigators may take a different view.

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Like it or not, the investigators will remove all emotions from the case and scrutinise the Detectives actions, which is their function.

Now before I get lashed out of it here by obviously more knowledgeable internet folk. This is an impartial view and an angle which some might not be aware of or is not popular to acknowledge.

Firstly, I am not "anti-AGS", before some of you label me as it. I have no agenda and I have never been "done by de Gards".

Secondly, I have professionally worked alongside AGS in various roles over the years and know how professional, well trained and capable they are, I would wager many here have not.

Thirdly, I have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon.

Forthly, I actually have been in a situation where it was 50/50 whether or not to squeeze the trigger myself, unlike most here. So I am aware of what the Detective was facing and what was potentially going through his head.

Finally, this is the reality that the Detective now finds himself in. That squeeze of the trigger and him performing his duty is now under the microscope, it matters not what we think.

The questions GSOC will want answered are:

1. Why Mr. Hennessey was shot in the back in a contained environment which at that time, posed limited immediate threat to life outside of the vehicle. Will GSOC decide it was excessive use of force and disproportionate to the threat at the time?

2. Why did the Detective not clear and ready his weapon as trained, especially if he assessed that there was an immediate threat to life. This contradicts his actions in Para 1.

Im hoping scenario 3 above is the official AGS line. Hopefully the Detective can rest easy and the investigation is awarded in his favour. He performed his duty and shouldnt be penalised for it, despite reported inconsistencies in the event and any potential technicalities with the use of force.

I would hope it wont cause other members of the force to hessitate to act in the future.

TomOnBoard · 23-05-2018 10:47PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

So GSOC have confirmed that Mr. Hennessy was in the vehicle when he was shot.

GSOC will now assess what actions led to the Detective using his weapon. AFAIK, there have been three reported reasons by the media.

1. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he believed the victim was in the vehicle and under imminent mortal threat. Which turned out not to be the case.

2. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as a result of Mr. Hennessy threatening and lunging at an unarmed AGS member with a stanley knife. This is not the case as Mr. Hennessey was contained and shot in the vehicle.

3. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he bent down in the footwell of the car, asessed as reaching for a firearm. This also turned out not to be the case.

Ultimately, the investigation may focus on the impact of the round, which has been reported as entering Mr. Hennessey's rear shoulder, which caused the fatality.

To most people it wont matter why he was shot as Mr. Hennessey's actions were deserving of that fate. The investigators may take a different view.

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Like it or not, the investigators will remove all emotions from the case and scrutinise the Detectives actions, which is their function.

Now before I get lashed out of it here by obviously more knowledgeable internet folk. This is an impartial view and an angle which some might not be aware of or is not popular to acknowledge.

Firstly, I am not "anti-AGS", before some of you label me as it. I have no agenda and I have never been "done by de Gards".

Secondly, I have professionally worked alongside AGS in various roles over the years and know how professional, well trained and capable they are, I would wager many here have not.

Thirdly, I have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon.

Forthly, I actually have been in a situation where it was 50/50 whether or not to squeeze the trigger myself, unlike most here. So I am aware of what the Detective was facing and what was potentially going through his head.

Finally, this is the reality that the Detective now finds himself in. That squeeze of the trigger and him performing his duty is now under the microscope, it matters not what we think.

The questions GSOC will want answered are:

1. Why Mr Hennessey was shot in the back in a contained environment which at that time, posed limited immediate threat to life outside of the vehicle. Will GSOC decide it was excessive use of force and disproportionate to the threat at the time?

2. Why did the Detective not clear and ready his weapon as trained, especially if he assessed that there was an immediate threat to life. This contradicts his actions in Para 1.

Im hoping scenario 3 above is the official AGS line. Hopefully the Detective can rest easy and the investigation is awarded in his favour. He performed his duty and shouldnt be penalised for it, despite reported inconsistencies in the event and any potential technicalities with the use of force.

I would hope it wont cause other members of the force to hessitate to act in the future.

Surely the casing being still! In the weapon could indicate that a revolver was used (which would not eject its casing) rather than an automatic. Im no expert, and I do NOT have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon. So perhaps Im wrong..

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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