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Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

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    #392
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    smurgen wrote: »
    They fired hundreds of yards into Gaza.who gave the Israeli's that right? Are Palestinians not allowed to feel safe in their own country?

    Gaza is a territory, not a country. There is officially no state of Israel or Palestine, as there are no recognised borders for either.

    Gaza was occupied (annexed) after the 1967 war, and when they pulled out in 2010, they still retained control over the borders. (Egypt controls the southern border, and funnily enough, also the blockade)

    Technically, the Israelies are firing into Israeli land they annexed from Egypt.
    There just happen to be palestinians there.

    And before anyone goes on about "who gave them the right to annex, etc etc"; when you go to war with someone and lose, then you lose any and all claim over whatever the victors put dibs on. War 101.
    Also before "but muh international law"; That's not how the real world works.


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    #393
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    smurgen wrote: »
    They fired hundreds of yards into Gaza.who gave the Israeli's that right? Are Palestinians not allowed to feel safe in their own country?

    Gaza is a territory, not a country. There is officially no state of Israel or Palestine, as there are no recognised borders for either.

    Gaza was occupied (annexed) after the 1967 war, and when they pulled out in 2010, they still retained control over the borders. (Egypt controls the southern border, and funnily enough, also the blockade)

    Technically, the Israelies are firing into Israeli land they annexed from Egypt.
    There just happen to be palestinians there.

    And before anyone goes on about "who gave them the right to annex, etc etc"; when you go to war with someone and lose, then you lose any and all claim over whatever the victors put dibs on. War 101.
    Also before "but muh international law"; That's not how the real world works.

    Whatever victors put dibs on?does that include your life?your safety?
    Are you calling the Palestinians POW's?you sound like you don't have about as much knowledge of the situation as you do empathy i.e zero.


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    #394
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    smurgen wrote: »
    It's time to start divesting from Israel in a systematic fashion.I see them and the Saudi's as being in the same light morally and I will never step foot in either ****hole.Time they were cut off from the rest of the world until the stop commiting war crimes.

    They need to become a more accepting,diverse, multicultural country

    This one should take her own advice...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85BKDj_1vVU


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    #395
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    Still waiting on the Hamas apologists, to explain why it's deemed acceptable to put your own civilians in the firing line of Israeli bullets...

    Does it bother you at all, that the Palestinian leadership has such disregard for it's own people?

    No, it's the Israelis who utterly despise Palestinian life.

    Let's burn a baby alive.

    Let the terrorist go free.

    Then let's dance around and stab a photo of the baby that was murdered.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duma_arson_attack


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    #396
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Technically, the Israelies are firing into Israeli land they annexed from Egypt.
    There just happen to be palestinians there.

    And before anyone goes on about "who gave them the right to annex, etc etc"; when you go to war with someone and lose, then you lose any and all claim over whatever the victors put dibs on. War 101.
    Also before "but muh international law"; That's not how the real world works.

    Fine, but they claim to represent western civilisation in the 20th/21st century. Western Civilisations don't generally go around starting wars or committing war crimes post WWII. This isn't the dark ages. Many who live in western civilised societies are appalled at this extreme anti social behaviour.

    Then the Palestinians are presented as uncivilised barbarians. Many folk now side with the Palestinians, without giving anyone a free pass.


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    #397
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    smurgen wrote: »
    Whatever victors put dibs on?does that include your life?your safety?
    Are you calling the Palestinians POW's?you sound like you don't have about as much knowledge of the situation as you do empathy i.e zero.

    Crimeans living in now annexed Crimea are not POW's of Russia.

    They are now merely members of the russian federation.

    As far as real world p[racticalities go, "palestine" is just part of Israel.


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    #398
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Fine, but they claim to represent western civilisation in the 20th/21st century. Western Civilisations don't generally go around starting wars or committing war crimes post WWII. This isn't the dark ages. Many who live in western civilised societies are appalled at this extreme anti social behaviour.

    Then the Palestinians are presented as uncivilised barbarians. Many folk now side with the Palestinians, without giving anyone a free pass.

    Was this before or after the entire neighbourhood tried and failed to wipe off Israel?
    Israel won, and now has Gaza and the Golan heights as annexed prizes.

    Whats the confusion here?


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    #399
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Fine, but they claim to represent western civilisation in the 20th/21st century. Western Civilisations don't generally go around starting wars or committing war crimes post WWII. This isn't the dark ages. Many who live in western civilised societies are appalled at this extreme anti social behaviour.

    Then the Palestinians are presented as uncivilised barbarians. Many folk now side with the Palestinians, without giving anyone a free pass.

    Was this before or after the entire neighbourhood tried and failed to wipe off Israel?
    Israel won, and now has Gaza and the Golan heights as annexed prizes.

    Whats the confusion here?

    The confusion here is how you think this is compatible with international law.the outcome of wars in 1967 doesn't make the shooting of unarmed civilians in 2018 not murders.it is murder and the civilized world is watching.no.spin or mental gymnastics will tell us differently.


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    #400
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Gaza is a territory, not a country. There is officially no state of Israel or Palestine, as there are no recognised borders for either.

    Gaza was occupied (annexed) after the 1967 war, and when they pulled out in 2010, they still retained control over the borders. (Egypt controls the southern border, and funnily enough, also the blockade)

    Technically, the Israelies are firing into Israeli land they annexed from Egypt.
    There just happen to be palestinians there.

    And before anyone goes on about "who gave them the right to annex, etc etc"; when you go to war with someone and lose, then you lose any and all claim over whatever the victors put dibs on. War 101.
    Also before "but muh international law"; That's not how the real world works.

    You don't really know what you're talking about. (Quelle surprise).

    Gaza was occupied by Israel (and to an extent still is) but it was never annexed.

    East Jeruslaem and the Golan Heights are both occupied and (illegally) annexed, the West Bank is occupied but not (yet) annexed.

    When you annex a territory, you grant full citizenship and legal rights (in theory) to all living within said territory.

    Given that the so-called democracy of Israel is obsessed with racial numbers, that's why the Occupied West Bank hasn't been annexed, and won't be in full.

    Israel is currently doing everything it feels it can get away with to ethnicly cleanse Palestinians out of certain parts of the Occupied West Bank.

    There are constantly calls from Israeli politicans to annex Area C as they want the land but not the Palestinians who mainly live in Areas A & B.

    That'll leave the Palestinians subjugated in tiny, scattered bantustans.

    Be fascinated to know how Israel's apologists can claim it is a democracy when it is actively engaged in such horrendous racial criminality.


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    #401
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Was this before or after the entire neighbourhood tried and failed to wipe off Israel?
    Israel won, and now has Gaza and the Golan heights as annexed prizes.

    Whats the confusion here?

    There but for the grace of God go I.


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    #402
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Was this before or after the entire neighbourhood tried and failed to wipe off Israel?

    You are against land grabs, ok.
    Israel won, and now has Gaza and the Golan heights as annexed prizes.

    Whats the confusion here?

    Hold on a minute, now you aren't............


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    #403
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,065 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    smurgen wrote: »
    They fired hundreds of yards into Gaza.who gave the Israeli's that right? Are Palestinians not allowed to feel safe in their own country?
    Interesting that Islamic terrorists not only feel safe but are actually welcome in Israel. As usual the charade of "humanitarian" aid is the reason.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_state-sponsored_terrorism#Israel-Syrian_rebels_relationship


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    #404
    Madd Finn
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Madd Finn


    rusty cole wrote: »
    the irony being with an attitude like that....well...how do we say lebensraum in hebrew???

    Eretz Israel

    Or in Hebrew Script

    ארץ ישראל


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    #405
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Madd Finn wrote: »

    ארץ ישראל

    Fairly sure that's actually klingon


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    #406
    Madd Finn
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Madd Finn


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Fairly sure that's actually klingon

    Shows how much you know.

    The website you want is here


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    #407
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    Common sense keeps them backing Israel.

    Yes, it's greatly endeared them to the middle east, and in no way makes a mockery of their preaching about "freedom" and the like.
    thepoet85 wrote:
    With America's power on the international stage ebbing (questionably) then maybe that protection won't last much longer.

    Unfortunately they will still have the veto at the UN. BDS changes things though - America was once a staunch supporter of Apartheid South Africa and Smiths Rhodesia but eventually changed its tune.
    Thinkprogress wrote:
    Well, clearly t(..........) any chance they get...

    Still unable to explain the complexities of the situation or lay them out?
    zaptistas wrote:
    Nothing to see there ... move along ... that Hamas compound that the children were near when that occurred was cunningly hidden as a small fisherman's shack. Was a full internal investigation and everything was above board

    Much like the breadmill they bombed. And the sewage plant. And the zoo they ploughed into the ground (every time they made an incursion into Gaza). And the children they shot, in their houses, in classrooms, in the school yard, going to the shops for sweets after a curfew was lifted - quite often with aimed single shots to the head.


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    #408
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It must be some craic on that border with a sniper rifle if you're a psycho in fairness. Absolute impunity and people supporting your bullets landing hits on kids.


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    #409
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadian-doctor-shot-by-israeli-sniper-near-gaza-border/

    Dr. Loubani, who has served as an emergency field doctor in Tanzania and conflict zones such as Iraq and southern Lebanon, said he was wearing a green surgeon’s outfit and standing with several orange-vested paramedics about 25 metres from the protests at the border when he was hit.

    “I am very seasoned about not being shot at. I know where to stand. I know where to be. I know how not to get shot,” he told The Globe and Mail in a telephone interview from Gaza where he recuperating. “Snipers don’t reach me because of mistakes. I did everything right. We were all huddled. We were high visibility. It was quiet at the exact moment I got shot. The bullet went through my left leg, through my right leg out and hit the ground.

    The doctor needs more training on how not to get shot if he thinks 'about 25 meters' away from a target area is safe.


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    #410
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Otto Embarrassed Falconer wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadian-doctor-shot-by-israeli-sniper-near-gaza-border/

    Dr. Loubani, who has served as an emergency field doctor in Tanzania and conflict zones such as Iraq and southern Lebanon, said he was wearing a green surgeon’s outfit and standing with several orange-vested paramedics about 25 metres from the protests at the border when he was hit.

    “I am very seasoned about not being shot at. I know where to stand. I know where to be. I know how not to get shot,” he told The Globe and Mail in a telephone interview from Gaza where he recuperating. “Snipers don’t reach me because of mistakes. I did everything right. We were all huddled. We were high visibility. It was quiet at the exact moment I got shot. The bullet went through my left leg, through my right leg out and hit the ground.

    The doctor needs more training on how not to get shot if he thinks 'about 25 meters' away from a target area is safe.

    Why would a protest be a target area for snipers firing live ammunition? Did you normally fire on protests during your time as a soldier?


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    #411
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Otto Embarrassed Falconer wrote: »
    The doctor needs more training on how not to get shot if he thinks 'about 25 meters' away from a target area is safe.

    25 meters from protesters who are 700 meters from a fence should be plenty safe for someone in medic gear with a group of first responders in hi-viz gear. Not to mention the fact that it was a "target area" is disgusting.


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    #412
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    To some, Palestinians are sub-humans, and they’ll always make excuses for their slaughter.


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    #413
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    25 meters from protesters who are 700 meters from a fence should be plenty safe for someone in medic gear with a group of first responders in hi-viz gear. Not to mention the fact that it was a "target area" is disgusting.

    No such thing as a safe area if your in the open and people are firing live rounds ,you could essentially Walk into a bullet that's being fired at someone else .
    From the videos and maps showing the protesters are alot closer than 700 meters ,
    Actually if anything why nobody has built land defenses around the protesters is unbelievable a couple of diggers and they could build mounds for hundreds of meters offering protection from bullets
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #414
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Otto Embarrassed Falconer wrote: »
    The doctor needs more training on how not to get shot if he thinks 'about 25 meters' away from a target area is safe.


    I think the snipers need more training if they are shooting marked medical personnel in a safe zone. Or maybe it is intentional.


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    #415
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    smurgen wrote: »
    Why would a protest be a target area for snipers firing live ammunition? Did you normally fire on protests during your time as a soldier?

    Whether we like it or not, and most of us don't, but anywhere along the Gaza/Israel security fence is going to be a target area at some point and standing 25 meters away from people who are likely to be targets is dangerous.

    The doctor simply can not be unaware of the dangers of being in that area, and its that simple.


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    #416
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users Posts: 7,519 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It must be some craic on that border with a sniper rifle if you're a psycho in fairness. Absolute impunity and people supporting your bullets landing hits on kids.


    https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/996460255520358400


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    #417
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Otto Embarrassed Falconer wrote: »
    The doctor simply can not be unaware of the dangers of being in that area, and its that simple.

    A danger created solely by the idf snipers. Shooting unarmed civilian medics who are present only to help must surly be a war crime.


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    #418
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    25 meters from protesters who are 700 meters from a fence should be plenty safe for someone in medic gear with a group of first responders in hi-viz gear. Not to mention the fact that it was a "target area" is disgusting.

    Its actually not a safe area, and bullets don't stop until they hit something and the fall of shot lands the round on the ground.

    Its terrible the doctor was shot of course, but he wasn't in a safe area.

    I'm not getting too involved with this, its terrible that a medic was shot whether it was deliberate or accidental.

    But for him to say that he was used to not getting shot, and thinking 25 meters away from demonstrator who you know, or suspect may be targets for some little prick in the IDF lines is silly.

    And that's all I'm saying. He shouldn't have been shot, simple as that but he was so he wasn't in a safe area.

    That's it.


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    #419
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    RustyNut wrote: »
    A danger created solely by the idf snipers. Shooting unarmed civilian medics who are present only to help must surly be a war crime.

    Do you know he was specifically targeted or was hit by ricochet
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #420
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Gatling wrote: »
    Actually if anything why nobody has built land defenses around the protesters is unbelievable a couple of diggers and they could build mounds for hundreds of meters offering protection from bullets

    The IDF would probably bomb them saying they are "terror" infrastructure or something. If there shooting protesters, you can be sure they will destroy any heavy machinery in the same area.


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    #421
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gatling wrote: »
    Do you know he was specifically targeted or was hit by ricochet

    A paramedic he was with was shot and killed if I remember correctly. He was also shot in the legs, like a lot of others.

    So you have snipers who can shoot the legs of people, but can't see their clothing.


    Edit: From April: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/04/28/feature/scores-of-palestinians-have-been-shot-in-their-legs-and-some-face-amputation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.405d2a594407

    This is a sport for these soldiers.


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