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Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    A distinction needs to be made between Zionists and Israeli citizens. They are not the same and not all Israelis or even the vast majority would consider themselves Zionists.

    And even among Zionists there's different flavours. I don't want to see Israel cease to exist. I want to see it thrive. So technically I'm a Zionist. However I want to see Palestinian statehood too. So I'm not a Zionist?

    The problem is that zionist has different meaning depending on the person. For anti semites it's a word used to describe global puppet masters. For the right wing, especially in Israel it's use to describe right wing patriots. And they use it in such a way that anyone who doesn't agree with them is an enemy. Classically it was use to describe a homeland where jews would be safe. So many groups have hijacked it over the years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    An other thing.

    Israel is dropping tons of white phosphorus on the protesters. It's a lethal chemical weapon. Why not invade, bomb or sanction Israel for using chemical weapons? The US invaded Iraq because they believed they might have chemical weapons, they bombed Syria because they believed they might have used chemical weapons. Israel is using chemical weapons literally in broad daylight on a civilian population, talk about your double standards. And then there's the nuclear stockpile they refuse to allow the UN generals to inspect. Saddam was invaded for less.

    What a disgusting fascistic, rogue state Israel is and what a bunch of disgusting two faced, hypocritical bigots there supporters are..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    The road system is configured like that to minimise attacks on settlers.

    Colonists you mean. Stealing land from Palestinians. In contravention of international law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The road system is configured like that to minimise attacks on settlers.

    Are roads for the illegal colonists and the native Palestinian population of similar quality?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    A distinction needs to be made between Zionists and Israeli citizens. They are not the same and not all Israelis or even the vast majority would consider themselves Zionists.

    I'd say about as many as the proportions of Germans that supported the Nazis.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭Thepoet85


    Why are the Israelis not being held accountable for their actions?
    What do the UN and EU have to fear from them? There must be something more than an American backing keeping them at arms length from international action.


  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Tigerbaby


    Thepoet85 wrote: »
    Why are the Israelis not being held accountable for their actions?
    What do the UN and EU have to fear from them? There must be something more than an American backing keeping them at arms length from international action.

    Good question.

    I would propose "European Guilt" from the World War II.
    We didnt know what was happening to the Jews back then.
    But we *do* know what is happening to the Natives of Palestine now, dont we?

    Also, money. as always. Remember Jesus the Jew kicking the lenders out of the Temple?
    They didnt like him very much for that, did they?

    nothing's changed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    An other thing.

    Israel is dropping tons of white phosphorus on the protesters. It's a lethal chemical weapon. Why not invade, bomb or sanction Israel for using chemical weapons? The US invaded Iraq because they believed they might have chemical weapons, they bombed Syria because they believed they might have used chemical weapons. Israel is using chemical weapons literally in broad daylight on a civilian population, talk about your double standards. And then there's the nuclear stockpile they refuse to allow the UN generals to inspect. Saddam was invaded for less...

    Just to be clear on something.

    This will sound like a contradiction.

    WP is a chemical (just as all other explosives are chemicals) but its not a chemical weapon.

    Its use for its intended purpose (ie to create a smoke screen) is completely legal. To use it for its incendiary effects, or against civilians or targets inside densely populated civilian area's (which much of Gaza is) is completely illegal.

    Outside of that WP is good to use.

    Btw, WP is also used in tracer ammunition, smoke grenades, mortar bombs etc.

    There ya go, just to clear that one up for ya.

    Its effects are fvcking horrible, and I believe that Israel uses it illegally in Gaza but its not a chemical weapon, although WP is a chemical ~ just to add to the confusion.

    Gazan's are caught between a rock and a hard place.

    The Palestinians refugee's inside Gaza are not afforded full rights and are discriminated against by Gazan's. They can't protest or rise against Hamas rule, or many more than 60 would be killed.

    The on the flip side of all that is a barbaric siege and slow strangulation by Israel.

    To the OP's question, 'does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians'?.. I think if that did happen few (if any) hardline zionists would bat an eye lid.

    If the OP reads Doctor Izzeldin Abuelaish's book 'I Shall not Hate' you'd be left with no doubt that long term the annihilation of the Palestinians is an Israeli goal.

    From my experience of Israeli's, the ordinary man and woman on the street ~ seriously every one of them I've met (and I've been to Israel dozens, and dozens of times) wanted peace with Palestinians. But they were also convinced most Palestinians are terrorists who wanted to murder them, and so they're very strong supporters of their military.

    Like all wars, its not the men in suits and offices in the Knesset or sitting in an Hamas op's center somewhere in the Middle East who are getting their hands bloodied. Its the ordinary dope being conscripted into an Israeli army unit or a lemming in Gaza being pushed towards a security fence who knows that to go backward is to defy Hamas, or push forwards and hope they're not killed by an Israeli bullet.

    I offer no solutions, at this point in time there aren't many. I just hope the killing stops, and the fvckwits in the Knesset and Hamas come to their senses some day and realize they're pretty much the same breed of dopes/people and find a peace.

    Can't see any speedy resolution of the conflict under Trump that's for sure.

    Shalom :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Thepoet85 wrote: »
    Why are the Israelis not being held accountable for their actions?
    What do the UN and EU have to fear from them? There must be something more than an American backing keeping them at arms length from international action.

    No, its just American backing - economic influence and a UNSC veto.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Completely agree.

    Plus this defensive action sends out the message to other Hamas terrorists that they will face the same if and when they decide to challenge the integrity of Israel's borders.

    What borders? Have you a map there?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    This would actually be hilarious if current events weren't so tragic. It's apologists like yourself that need to grasp some level of reality. Are you seriously suggesting that one of the most advanced militaries in the world doesn't have a sub-lethal response in place to deal with these types of scenarios?

    Yeah, drop an fuel-air-mace bomb on them....

    Methinks you know not how MILITARIES work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Grayson wrote: »
    Naftali Bennet has said he wants to annex most of the occupied territories. He's also said when trump was elected that the "era of a two state solution is over"

    The Israeli right wing are in ascendance. And they don't want a two state solution. They don't even want to allow dissent inside israel.

    Aye, but I wish people would give it a rest when they keep banging the drum about peace being withheld on one side only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Why do you presume they were all shot trying to get through the fence?

    I made my opinion very clear. What point are you making?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Do Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?.

    No.... but Israel wouldn't mind at all if they moved back across the border to Egypt and Jordan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    No.... but Israel wouldn't mind at all if they moved back across the border to Egypt and Jordan.

    Moved back?


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭skepticalme


    The Israelis have reduced the Palastinians to sub human in their minds. All terrorists or potential terrorists with regards to children. They keep stating that they pulled out of Palastine, not a soldier left without acknowledging that they have bombed it to rubble with air strikes since then.
    I can't imagine living under those conditions. It is like a prison, human rights cast aside. Israel is a rogue state.
    The US is no longer a beacon for anything. At the UN meeting Nicky Hayley congratulated Israel on 70 years and had the nerve to say no other country shows at much restraint as Israel and typically blamed Iran. She walked out when the floor was given to Palastine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    smurgen wrote:
    I'd say about as many as the proportions of Germans that supported the Nazis.


    Ah give it a rest will ya


  • Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    The Israelis have reduced the Palastinians to sub human in their minds. All terrorists or potential terrorists with regards to children. They keep stating that they pulled out of Palastine, not a soldier left without acknowledging that they have bombed it to rubble with air strikes since then.
    I can't imagine living under those conditions. It is like a prison, human rights cast aside. Israel is a rogue state.
    The US is no longer a beacon for anything. At the UN meeting Nicky Hayley congratulated Israel on 70 years and had the nerve to say no other country shows at much restraint as Israel and typically blamed Iran. She walked out when the floor was given to Palastine.
    How does Israel negotiate with people whose official position is your destruction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Thepoet85 wrote: »
    Why are the Israelis not being held accountable for their actions?
    What do the UN and EU have to fear from them? There must be something more than an American backing keeping them at arms length from international action.

    Common sense keeps them backing Israel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,443 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Christ there is an ex Israeli MP on Prime Time and she isn't really helping the Israeli state's PR campaign. I mean David McCullough who is normally fairly level headed got annoyed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    She walked out when the floor was given to Palastine.

    That's the israeli/American idea of peace talks, monologue not dialogue, we will tell you how it's going to be and if you don't like it and attempt to stand up for yourselves we will demolish your homes, take your land and kill you and your children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭Thepoet85


    Odhinn wrote:
    No, its just American backing - economic influence and a UNSC veto.


    With America's power on the international stage ebbing (questionably) then maybe that protection won't last much longer.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Christ there is an ex Israeli MP on Prime Time and she isn't really helping the Israeli state's PR campaign. I mean David McCullough who is normally fairly level headed got annoyed.

    just saw it, what a ****.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭Thepoet85


    Common sense keeps them backing Israel.


    I wasn't being facetious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,443 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    rusty cole wrote: »
    just saw it, what a ****.

    I honestly don't know what I just watched. That was something.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    I honestly don't know what I just watched. That was something.

    you just saw ultra zionism basically. they dont give a **** really and now they have trump backing them, they've a swagger all of their own.
    she's a typical zionist, not too far removed from a master race pioneer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭seanin4711


    Yup


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    the irony being with an attitude like that....well...how do we say lebensraum in hebrew???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    I'd like to hear the alternatives that the Israeli border guards should have took when faced violent massed crowds trying to cross their border.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Israelis have reduced the Palastinians to sub human in their minds. All terrorists or potential terrorists with regards to children. They keep stating that they pulled out of Palastine, not a soldier left without acknowledging that they have bombed it to rubble with air strikes since then.
    I can't imagine living under those conditions. It is like a prison, human rights cast aside. Israel is a rogue state.
    The US is no longer a beacon for anything. At the UN meeting Nicky Hayley congratulated Israel on 70 years and had the nerve to say no other country shows at much restraint as Israel and typically blamed Iran. She walked out when the floor was given to Palastine.

    Basically confirms (if such confirmation was ever needed) that the US can't be remotely considered as an 'honest broker' when it comes to Middle East peace efforts. Dark times ahead I fear.


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