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Apple pulls out of data center in Athenry due to fcuked up planning and gob****es

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    #272
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Annd9 wrote: »
    Never did I state there would be no security on site , just a couple of people .

    I totally agree with your other points as they back up mine . 150 people would not be directly employed by Apple IN Athenry, it would be closer to 60 .With remote access and the use of contractors for major works local people would have hardly got a look in .

    I used the other( smaller ) centre as an example of how little
    manpower it actually takes to run the place day to day .

    Does it really matter? There will be 0 jobs on the site now.


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    #273
    Gaillimh1976
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭Gaillimh1976


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    **** me, imagine being known as "the people who robbed us of jobs" in a place the size of Athenry

    Pretty sure they have kids in the GAA club as well :):)


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    #274
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Gaillimh1976 wrote: »
    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    **** me, imagine being known as "the people who robbed us of jobs" in a place the size of Athenry

    Pretty sure they have kids in the GAA club as well :):)

    Not anymore they don't !!


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    #275
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    I'm at a loss here. How can you lodge an objection on the basis that it's be more suited to be built on land you own? That seems ridiculously self serving.


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    #276
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    I'm at a loss here. How can you lodge an objection on the basis that it's be more suited to be built on land you own? That seems ridiculously self serving.

    Who the **** knows, seems with the planning laws the way they are begrudgery is a valid objection


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    #277
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Just seen some guy on TV saying "The West of Ireland is forgotten about, it's all about Dublin, Cork and Limerick".

    FFS the IDA managed to attract a billion euro data centre to Athenry. Apple. A billion euros. Athenry.

    What more do they want?

    The country can't afford to be losing investments like this, the message that has gone out now is bad news for the entire country. You can be sure that the next time someone is looking to invest in Europe, our competitors will be showing news reports of this to visiting executives.


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    #278
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Gaillimh1976 wrote: »
    Pretty sure they have kids in the GAA club as well :):)
    Well it's nothing to do with them.

    They shouldn't be given a hard time over this.


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    #279
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    marno21 wrote: »
    Almost every project/development in Ireland is seeing these kind of NIMBY objections as if these projects were benefit-less wastes of money that are solely being built to interfere with the lives of local residents and destroy the environment

    Hopefully this will generate enough negative publicity to kickstart planning reform. It has to happen as the country is being held up beyond belief by this issue.

    That lad from Wickla must have some size of back yard


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    #280
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    lawred2 wrote: »
    That lad from Wickla must have some size of back yard

    That was the problem, he does, and he wanted Apple to build their data center in it!


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    #281
    kam3qnwvebf4jh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭kam3qnwvebf4jh


    I blame the supreme court for allowing the objectors to make their case when the High Court had already listened to them and refused them the option to go the court of Appeal. Why the heck are Judges considered more of an expert than actual planners in this regard. Planning system needs to be overhauled yes but if the judicial system can override then what's the point ??


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    #282
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Faith Spoiled Saddle wrote: »
    I blame the supreme court for allowing the objectors to make their case when the High Court had already listened to them and refused them the option to go the court of Appeal. Why the heck are Judges considered more of an expert than actual planners in this regard. Planning system needs to be overhauled yes but if the judicial system can override then what's the point ??


    I think the Supreme Court case must have been on a point of law.


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    #283
    Kewreeuss
    Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Kewreeuss


    No one has made any comment on what a poster was saying about the amount of power all those electric cars will use.
    I was hoping to learn more.
    And what exactly is the problem with our planning laws? that anyone can keep objecting and appealing. and that it takes ages for the appeals to be heard?


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    #284
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Kewreeuss wrote: »
    And what exactly is the problem with our planning laws? that anyone can keep objecting and appealing. and that it takes ages for the appeals to be heard?

    What valid complaint could a business man from Wicklow (with a clear vested interest) possibly have against a development in Athenry?


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    #285
    Kewreeuss
    Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Kewreeuss


    yes, I know. it is illogical. That's why I am asking about the planning laws. I don't know how they work. If permission is granted, there can still be any amount of appeals? So really an bord planala is toothless?


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    #286
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Kewreeuss wrote: »
    yes, I know. it is illogical. That's why I am asking about the planning laws. I don't know how they work. If permission is granted, there can still be any amount of appeals? So really an bord planala is toothless?

    Seems to be that way alright, from what I understand this project always did have planning permission. But apparently if you have enough money to just keep firing off appeals you can make things pretty awkward.

    I don't actually understand why this business man from Wicklow complained. I could see somewhat valid arguments for the (somewhat) locals, even though I don't agree with them.

    But I don't understand this guy because no matter what the outcome was it was never going to be a case that he'd get the planning permission on his site in Wicklow :confused:

    I'm sure there will be people who know the ins and outs of the planning laws better but from what I know it can hardly be described as an efficient process.
    OOOH look here's one now :D


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    #287
    KildareP
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Kewreeuss wrote: »
    No one has made any comment on what a poster was saying about the amount of power all those electric cars will use.
    I was hoping to learn more.
    And what exactly is the problem with our planning laws? that anyone can keep objecting and appealing. and that it takes ages for the appeals to be heard?

    Anything specific, shout - will try to answer without dragging off topic :)

    The main issue with planning law in this country is time.

    I wouldn't deny anyone a right to appeal, but them appealing should not be able to significantly stall any sort of progress like has been seen here.

    At the moment, if you apply to the council, you have to wait four weeks for any objections ("observations") to be lodged against your application.
    Then the council will take some time to make their ruling, typically a month.
    Then you have to wait 4 weeks after their ruling for any appeals to An Bord Pleanála.
    Best Case: Minimum 3 months from putting in your application to getting a grant.

    If it is appealed, the statutory turnaround time is 18 weeks for ABP - that's not necessarily to guarantee a decision, just they either have to have a decision, or, give you an exact due date for when they will have a decision. The average decision turnaround time on most appeals at present seem to be closer to 6 months.

    Once ABP make their decision, then you have to wait 4 weeks for any appeals to that.
    That's brought you up to 8 months, absolute best case, between lodging your application and getting a decision of grant.

    And that's just for a straightforward grant.
    Once you're into Environmental Impact Assessments and Oral Hearings, or someone further challenges the ABP ruling, you're talking years and significant cost.

    Far, far too long.


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    #288
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    KildareP wrote: »
    Anything specific, shout - will try to answer without dragging off topic :)

    Could you explain why someone from Wicklow might be allowed to object to a development in Galway?

    (that is, if he was actually one of the people objecting on the paperwork rather than just financing the whole debacle)

    Is there not some kind of 'locality' clause? (I was always told 2 miles?)


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    #289
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    wexie wrote: »
    Could you explain why someone from Wicklow might be allowed to object to a development in Galway?

    (that is, if he was actually one of the people objecting on the paperwork rather than just financing the whole debacle)

    Is there not some kind of 'locality' clause? (I was always told 2 miles?)

    Nope.


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    #290
    KildareP
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭KildareP


    wexie wrote: »
    Could you explain why someone from Wicklow might be allowed to object to a development in Galway?

    (that is, if he was actually one of the people objecting on the paperwork rather than just financing the whole debacle)

    Is there not some kind of 'locality' clause? (I was always told 2 miles?)

    No, there's nothing stopping anyone, from anywhere, from objecting to anything, for any reason.
    Some chap in the far North of Donegal would be perfectly entitled to object to an application by a chap in Dingle to put an extension on his house.

    Now, the council will take it into consideration when making a decision - most likely it will hold no basis on the grounds they're opposite ends of the country.

    But it has to be considered nonetheless.

    If the council don't take account of his objection, he then has the right to appeal the council decision to An Bord Pleanála.

    Likewise, ABP will take it into consideration - and again most likely it will be disregarded based on proximity (or lack thereof).

    But it has to be considered!

    And then there's nothing to stop that person from further appealing the decision by ABP, etc.

    What compounds the issue to where we are today is that it takes so bloody long for these things to be processed so the guy in Donegal could potentially stall that Dingle shed or extension for in excess of a year with the minimum of effort.

    It needs to be fast tracked so that yes, everyone has a right to appeal, but they do not have the ability to stall progress unduly. Decisions need to be made in less than a month and appeals dealt with in less than three months.


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    #291
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    KildareP wrote: »
    No, there's nothing stopping anyone, from anywhere, from objecting to anything, for any reason.
    Some chap in the far North of Donegal would be perfectly entitled to object to an application by a chap in Dingle to put an extension on his house.

    that is just completely bonkers!!! I could see situations arising where this might make some form of sense for businesses....but that's nuts

    KildareP wrote: »
    What compounds the issue to where we are today is that it takes so bloody long for these things to be processed so the guy in Donegal could potentially stall that Dingle shed or extension for in excess of a year with the minimum of effort.

    It needs to be fast tracked so that yes, everyone has a right to appeal, but they do not have the ability to stall progress unduly. Decisions need to be made in less than a month and appeals dealt with in less than three months.

    It's a toughy, I certainly wouldn't want to advocate a system where the opportunity for these appeals isn't in place because I could see that leading to all kinds of problems as well.

    But there really should be some kind of limit.

    I guess it's a lot easier to point out all the flaws and issues than to come up with a better system. (as is usually the case)


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    #292
    Lackey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Lackey


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    One of them had bought land in Wicklow that he thought would be a "better fit" for Apple.

    Co. Wicklow the home of no water treatment plant....where raw sewerage flows into the most polluted river of Ireland

    Why?

    One persons objection to a water treatment plant being built.


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    #293
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Here is a starting point:

    Thanks. May send a post that way....


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    #294
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,943 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    KildareP wrote: »
    No, there's nothing stopping anyone, from anywhere, from objecting to anything, for any reason.
    Some chap in the far North of Donegal would be perfectly entitled to object to an application by a chap in Dingle to put an extension on his house.

    Reminds me of the guy who was proud of objecting under the Official Languages Act causing Dublin City Council to take down and replace dozens of direction signs at a cost to Dublin ratepayers of tens of thousands of euro because they had the English placenames at the top instead of the Irish placenames.

    He lived in Galway :rolleyes:

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #295
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Felt like Apple had pulled back from this project a long time ago. Don't think the planning changed their plans


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    #296
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    KildareP wrote: »
    No, there's nothing stopping anyone, from anywhere, from objecting to anything, for any reason.
    Some chap in the far North of Donegal would be perfectly entitled to object to an application by a chap in Dingle to put an extension on his house.

    That’s interesting. I might take it upon myself to keep an eye on any planning applications this gentleman may lodge in the future, and assess Whether they may have an impact on me 100km away from where he is.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



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    #297
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,636 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I just said they use renewable energy. Do you think there's giant batteries at Poolbeg that will be drained further when the data centres get plugged in?

    I've no idea what the rest of your post means.

    It won't - it will be drawing most of its power from the national grid which depends mainly on conventional power sources. Your simply parroting Apples greenwashing nonsense


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    #298
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Brian Mc Donagh from Wicklow on his love of forests:



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7MptWbXAsU


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    #299
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Ffs, what a colossal bollox he comes across as. fcuk him and his big idea off the cliffs of moher.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



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    #300
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,086 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Boggles wrote: »
    They were granted full permission 6/7 months ago, correct?

    What has taken so long for the announcement that they were pulling out?


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/


    2015 Feb = initial announcement
    2015 Sep = Galway Co. Co. grants PP with conditions

    appealed to ABP

    2016 May - oral hearings
    2016 Aug - ABP grants permission

    After this, it moves from the planning system into the legal system:

    Three opponents to the plan – Allan Daly, Sinead Fitzpatrick and Brian McDonagh - bring a court challenge on the basis that An Bord Pleanála failed to carry out a proper Environmental Impact Assessment of the proposed development.


    2017 Oct - the High Court supports the ABP decision


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    #301
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    It wasnt planned for Dublin so was always going to fail, we apparently want everything in Dublin even though we cant house people there, but still lets have everything in Dublin.


This discussion has been closed.
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